Revolution finally given its official name

[Agent 57]

It's going to be the Nintendo...Wii.

Pronounced "we".

http://revolution.nintendo.com/

I'm not quite sure what to think at the moment, except that Gabe and Tycho are going to have a field day with this one.

[Zeus]

EVERYONE's gonna have a field day with this one. That's just an odd name. OK, I can see that it's pronounced the same everywhere and expresses the whole playing together over the Wi-Fi connection thing, but just....odd

[Nev]

What I'd like to know is....what the holy hell was wrong with "Revolution"?

I am going to continue calling it the Revolution. And when I buy it, I am going to ask for the Nintendo Revolution. And when the knob at EB Games or similar goes, "You mean the Nintendo Wii?", I'm either going to say "No, the Revolution", or just die of massive cerebral hemorrhage on the spot.

I saw the potential in the new controller the first time I looked at it. This name change, however, I predict no such great things for.

[Nev]

Oh, also....

http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/squirrel.htm

[Agent 57]

OMG, Nev, I forgot how freaking hilarious that movie was!

"SoIwaswalkingdownthestreetandIsawthisguywiththiscontroller, andhewasmovingitaroundandyelling 'Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!'"

Nintendo totally needs to run the first part of that as a commercial (cutting things off before the "gonads and strife" part, of course).

Best comment on the Joystiq thread on this so far:

"We are the Knights who say Wii!"

"We demand a shrubbery!"

[Eric]

Nintendo gets weirder and weirder...

[Nev]

I almost wonder if they did this precisely *because* they knew how nutty it would sound, and that it would be guaranteed to be all over the internet's cultural mindspace for days, in some sort of reverse-psychology retarded publicity stunt type of thing.

[Kupek]

One point from the press release actually makes sense to me: no need to abbreviate. Why bother having a longform name when everyone will abbreviate it anyway?

From the limited info I've seen it's also being branded as <i>Wii</i> not <i>Nintendo Wii</i>. Even the GameCube was branded as <i>the Nintendo GameCube</i>. This will be the first Nintendo console that doesn't use Nintendo as part of name branding.

Yeah, it's a silly name, but everyone will get used to it. Playstation? XBox? Those names are equally silly and we throw them around without a second thought.

[Agent 57]

More groan-inducing puns on the name...

"Do you have any Wii in stock?" asked the customer. "Or course we do," exclaimed the clerk, "Urine GameStop!"

[Agent 57]

Here's a really good one from the SA forum thread on this:

"Nintendo, borrowing a page from Microsoft's book, will release their new game console in three configurations:

Wii, not so Wii, and FRIGGIN' HUGE!"

[M'k'n'zy]

Here's a really good one from the SA forum thread on this:

"Nintendo, borrowing a page from Microsoft's book, will release their new game console in three configurations:

Wii, not so Wii, and FRIGGIN' HUGE!"

Oh that one is priceless ^_^

Yeah, I cant predict great things for this name, I mean I understand the logic, but still, couldnt they have come up with something better?

[Blotus]

Lame name. But I'll still buy it on day one.

Oh, also....

http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/squirrel.htm

1000 times lamer.

[Julius Seeker]

It sounds like something a blonde chick with an IQ under 60 calls a penis.

Seriously, what are they going to call their next system: The Vajina?

[Torgo]

Yeah, it's a silly name, but everyone will get used to it. Playstation? XBox? Those names are equally silly and we throw them around without a second thought.

This seems like the first time they used a made up word, though. Game Boy, Dreamcast, Gamecube, etc are silly names, but at least they're combinations words we're familiar with.

I'm with Blotus, though. Nintendo can call it the Super Lame Homo Machine and I'd still end up getting one.

[Julius Seeker]

The SLHM.

Well, Nintendo, Sega, and Sony are all made up words. The thing is the word "We" as we know it is a pronoun as opposed to a noun. In the form of a nown "wii" would be highly phallic.

I mean, it was obvious Nintendo DS was going for the whole masturbation theme, what is with Nintendo nowadays?

"Hey, I'm going to go play with my wii for a while. I'm just so fucking addicted to the thing. There is just an unending amount of games that I can play with it! I feel nuts! I just love controlling this thing, it's a completely one-handed orgazmic experience!"

wii is also slang for urination in many places

[Shellie]

Posted on my work forum:

W - I - I = E

23 - 9 - 9 = 5th console

[Flip]

Posted on my work forum:

W - I - I = E

23 - 9 - 9 = 5th console

Coincidence?? Me thinks not!

[Nev]

Absolutely not a coincidence.

And that is proof - PROOF, I say! - that the Revolution is merely another tool of the evil, pan-galactic Reptilians, here to destroy us all with their Reptilish ways. You should all begin living in an alley with aluminum foil wrapped around your head now - it's the only way to ward off their mindcontrolosity.

...

By the way, Penny Arcade has weighed in on the Wii issue, and I am not disappointed.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic

[Agent 57]

Hokay.

Now that I've had the chance to sleep on this, I think I've figured out a couple things about why Nintendo went with Wii.

1) They want to be the undisputed #1 in Japan.

From what I understand, the Japanese love the new name (Mental, to answer your question, the word "Revolution" is nearly unpronouncable for them) in that it evokes a strong cultural reaction both from the logo itself and the way it is written in katakana, and I don't believe that the sound "wee" itself has any negative connotation over there.

I also think that by giving it such a distinctive name, Nintendo is attempting to further distance themselves from the PS3 and 360 - they've already attempted to do so with all of their "blue sea" talk, but this is taking it an extra step. See, by pushing themselves even further away, I think that Nintendo wants to have a "Newton's Second Law" effect of pushing the PS3 closer to the 360, which as we all know is doing horrible over there.

Of course, this all starts with the DS. I would be very willing to bet that if the DS (Lite + "Phat" together) hadn't been outselling all other consoles combined in Japan for the past month and a half, Nintendo would not be as willing to go in such a radical direction with the new name. But, since Nintendo is riding high on Japan's overwhelming acceptance of their new philosophy, they're willing to go for the home run - which, to be honest, I can't see them NOT hitting at this point. I mean, what else can radical controller design plus culturally favorable name plus commitment to third-party support/continuous releases in the first year plus DS as national phenomenon plus rumored connectivity with said DS plus rumored lowest next-gen price point by far equal?

Next, let's look at a couple of the issues in the rest of the world.

2) Anybody who's been following the system and was already excited about it will still buy one in spite of the name.

I mean, I can't count the number of posts I've seen - here, on the blogs like Kotaku and Joystiq, on SA, and on Fark - where people have posted something like "Yeah, whatever - Nintendo could call it {insert outrageously stupid name here} and I'd still get one." Which is obvious, if you think about it - just because it's called the Wii doesn't change anything about how cool Red Steel looks or how intriguing the controls of the new Madden sound, etc., etc.

And let's not forget Nintendo's ultimate trump card that will immediately override any hardcore gamer's negative reaction to the name - the inevitable E3 demo of the Wii functionality in Twilight Princess.

3) "Wii" and its logo fits in with the new controller to complete Nintendo's vision of making it far less threatening to non-gamers than any of the current consoles are.

Think about it. The name is simple. It's short (one freaking syllable, for pete's sake!). It's highly memorable. And perhaps most importantly, it doesn't carry any of the "we're so awesome and high-tech and hardcore" connotation that the current consoles do, either in their name (like the Xbox, with the harshness of the "X"s in the name) or their branding (the PS2 font on the system itself is very angular and imposing, as opposed to the original "PlayStation" font, which as you can see from the logo on the pic of MGS3 in my sig, is very rounded and non-threatening). In contrast, the Wii logo is understated (gray on a white background), the W has soft curves to it, and the little lowercase "i"s are, frankly, darn cute, especially after watching the video with them playing around.

Combine that with the aforementioned likelihood of the low price point and fact that there are so few buttons on the controller to deal with (there's two on the Wiimote - in either configuration - and two on the nunchaku, compared to 8 on the Xbox/360/PS2), and I think that Nintendo thinks it will be much easier for someone who's never played games before to see a commercial/ad for the Wii and become intrigued about trying it. Their entire approach smacks of making gaming less imposing to get into in the absence of word of mouth/trying it for themselves.

4) Anyone reacting negatively to the name is either immature and will (hopefully) get over it, or a hypocrite and will (probably) get over it.

I mean, sure, the piss/genitalia jokes were amusing at first - but they got old and busted really quickly, and anybody still making them after the Wii has been released (if it turns out to be a good system) really needs to grow up.

And yes, "Wii" is a silly name, but how much worse is it than the names of the following successful games?

-Parappa the Rapper
-Dance Dance Revolution
-Devil May Cry
-Super Mario Sunshine
-Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time (it abbreviates to "toot"!)
-Final Fantasy II-XII (ah, the oxymorons...)
-MGS3: Snake Eater
-Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow

...and possibly the silliest, most-easily-made-immature-jokes-with name of all, that I don't ever recall inspiring internet-wide revulsion and that I bet a lot of people played and enjoyed:

-Super Monkey Ball

<hr>
So basically, it's growing on me, I think I understand why Nintendo did it, and after thinking critically about it I can definitely see the Wii becoming a slam dunk in Japan and doing very well in the rest of the world.

I also think it will be fun as hell to play - which is really all that matters, right?

[Nev]

Or, Nintendo has just decided to stop giving a shit about North America and Europe again...

You're probably right. I didn't think of the appeal-to-non-gamers thing. But it's still going to take some time to get used to.

[Zeus]

Or, Nintendo has just decided to stop giving a shit about North America and Europe again...

After the N64? Never. Even back in the NES days, Nintendo of America has always done so well that Japan can't ignore them. Maybe they don't create too many games specifically for the US, although that's changing (see Metroid Prime; hell, Zero Mission was an Intelligent Systems game and Metroid sells like crap in Japan), but they always concern themselves with the US market.

The name is part of their whole "we're changing videogames" thing. Agent touched on a lot of it. It's not as tech-sounding, it is catchy in a way (hell, iPoD sounded stupid as well), and it's more of a mass-market appealing name. I hate it, but I don't care, just give me the games. If they're good, I buy one. Most people who are currently gamers will likely be in the same boat. It's the others, who aren't really gamers, that this will affect more (likely positively), which is what they're going after

[Flip]

I, for one, will welcome our new Reptilian overlords.

[Flip]

Great anaylisis Agent, pretty much what i was thinking too, but you put it into words while i could never have.

I have done a complete 180 (not 360, har har) on the Revo, Nintendo is marketing/positioning itself MASTERFULLY and has been doing so for the last year. It is truly awe inspiring to witness. Agents point #1 is dead on.

I still wont jump on the DS bandwagon because i love (and use) the functionality/capabilities of the PSP, but i see myself not wanting a game console/home theatre combo all-in-one anymore at all.

[Agent 57]

I will admit that I had no idea who the new name was supposed to appeal to at first...only by sleeping on it did I hit upon the idea that it has to be the Japanese and non-gamers (one of those subconscious "your brain figures it out while you sleep" kinda things).

I think I've figured out a couple other things, all based off the central idea that Nintendo named their system to appeal to non-gamers and will be driving its marketing campaign to pull in said non-gamers (because that central idea, and the conclusions that follow, are the only things that make any flipping sense).

1) All the people on the net, crying out "But I was so excited for the Revolution! Why'd they change the name to something so stupid?" are missing the poetic justice of the whole situation.

I mean, isn't it obvious? The reason Nintendo could make such a drastic name change that could so completely turn off hardcore gamers is precisely the fact that so many hardcore gamers were psyched about it!

Nintendo knew that all the information leaked so far about the controller, the games, the Virtual Console, and everything else had stirred gamers in the know into a frothing frenzy - I mean, there has been a palpable buzz building about the Rev ever since the GDC, and especially since that Red Steel article in GI hit. Couple that with the screaming success the DS has been lately, and Nintendo knew that this was their chance to go after the non-gamer, since the hardcore gamers were already hooked and would follow the console wherever it went - especially after what I'm sure Nintendo is banking on to be a mind-blowing E3 showing, which has to be why they revealed the name a week and a half *before* E3. (Reveal the name, give all the immature netizens a little slack to swim away, and then reeeeeeeeeeeeel 'em back in.)

2) Anybody who said "if you have to explain your product name, it's a bad product name" missed the point.

The explanation was posted on Nintendo's website on the first day of the announcement - that means that the announcement was basically intended for gamers who follow gaming news on the internet, which is decidedly NOT the audience Nintendo is trying to appeal to with the new name. Non-gamers might be a little confused when they hear the name at first, but I'd be willing to bet Nintendo's ad campaign will be elegant enough to get the point across. Speaking of which, here's a bold prediction:

3) Nintendo's upcoming ad campaign for the Wii will be the most mainstream ever.

I doubt this is going to be like it is now, where the 360 was announced on MTV, most of the gaming commercials are on specialty cable channels like ESPN and Spike, and the print ads are all in gaming mags. I think we're going to see TV commercials for the Wii on the big networks during stuff like CSI, 24, and Lost, and the print ads are going to appear in Time and their ilk.

Because everybody bitching about how esoteric the name is and how easily it can be mispronounced is right - thus, the only thing that makes sense is for Nintendo to go on an all-out mainstream blitz on this thing and ensure that every Tom, Dick, and Harry knows what it is, what it means, and how to pronounce it.

The only possible drawback to going full-on mainstream with the Wii ad campaign that I can see is the fact that the U.S. is still in full-on videogame paranoia mode, what with legislators still using games as a political tool and all. But, here's hoping that by the time November rolls around, either a) America has pulled its head out of its collective ass and the hysteria has subsided, or b) Nintendo and Sony funnel enough lobbyist money into Washington to get the politicos to STFU and not completely bone their launches.

[kali o.]

Gah, I wish I could gather up the strength to agrue here...

I can't...I must...arrrrgghh!

Instead, I'll have to sit here and contemplate just how the hell any of you think Nintendo whhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! is goin to exactly appeal to "casual gamers" or whatever new market the fanboys/company are claiming they are seeking.

Forget about the stupid ass name that doesn't resonate the notion of "gaming" to the average non-gamer (Playstation is the clear winner here, and at least Gamecube gave a hint to it's function).

What is it that is appealing to the "new market" of non-gamers?

The low price? Sorry, Nintendo has been there already and it resulted in last place.

The low specs/lack of HD? Casuals don't care, videogamers/techies do. Good way to alienate your core market.

The VC? The only people that would care about this are the hardcore Nintendo fans and collectors. Let's forget that emulation/free ROMs exist (in wide quantity pre-GC), let's forget the flea market/ebay nerds who have all they want already. You think "casuals" are going to go about connecting their wii to Wifi, search out unfamiliar ROMs and then break out a CC/redeemable card? Ha! And just what does this function do to the already suspected fragile 3rd party support? Sure as hell ain't helping.

The "Wiimote"? Are you fucking kidding me? First, it's more complicated in practice. Second, the concept isn't new - why hasn't this technology been embraced by the PC community...after all, a shitload of "casuals" sure as hell own a PC.

Nintendo is fucking up big time - why? Because they have been severely retarded since the SNES and if it weren't for their handhelds, they'd have pulled a Sega.

Honestly, I can't believe anyone is defending Nintendo these days. They've given up...they aren't relevant anymore. Wii is nothing but a last ditch attempt to cater to their home market where MS has a weak hold and at least they have a chance.

If you like Nintendo games, then the Wii is an easy purchase for sure - but for god sakes, don't fucking buy into their bullshit for a 3rd time...or worse yet, be a mouth-piece for their Wii (*runs off laughing like a giddy 5 year old*).

[Julius Seeker]

It sounds like something a blonde chick with an IQ under 60 calls a penis.

Seriously, what are they going to call their next system: The Vajina?

Penny Arcade came up with almost the EXACT same conclusion that I did on this. The next Nintendo system will be called The Vajina =)


Anyways, on Agent's post: no doubt about it, Nintendo easily has the Japanese market. I cannot see any way for Microsoft or Sony to have the same success as Nintendo will continue to have in Japan from the end of last year forward. First of all, the Xbox 360 is doing even worse than the Xbox did in Japan; the Japanese do not want to play Microsoft products. The PS3: well, consider the pricepoint first of all: Blue-ray and Cell technology are over-priced.

Nintendo is fucking up big time - why? Because they have been severely retarded since the SNES and if it weren't for their handhelds, they'd have pulled a Sega.

Well, the handheld systems have kept Nintendo up there as pound for pound one of the most profitable companies in the world, but I hardly doubt that without the handheld market Nintendo would die:

Sega went out of business due to piracy. Even though the Dreamcast had a base-unit of 11 million consoles, they onlymanaged to have one game, Sonic Adventure, exceed 1 million units sold. All the third parties abandonned them completely, because no game could be expected to sell more than 50K after about a year. N64 and Gamecube each had several games which exceeded 5 million units sold, as well as each having dozens of games exceeding 1 million units. Even Sega has seen much greater success on the Gamecube than they did on their own Dreamcast; only because Gamecube doesn't have piracy issues. If Dreamcast did not have the piracy issues, I see little reason why Sega would not still be in the console market today.

[Flip]

I dont think i have ever called a penis a wee. A wee wee, maybe, but the one word by itself doesnt make me think penis or vagina at all.

[Julius Seeker]

I dont think i have ever called a penis a wee. A wee wee, maybe, but the one word by itself doesnt make me think penis or vagina at all.

Wi is short for wiwi; that's why all the phallic jokes are being made. My logic for Vajina: why not make the 6th console vaginal if the 5th one is going to be phallic? I think Penny Arcade's is probably along the same lines.

[Agent 57]

Gah, I wish I could gather up the strength to agrue here...

I can't...I must...arrrrgghh!

Ahhhh, I knew as soon as I saw that the newest post was by you that there would be something else to talk about.

Forget about the stupid ass name that doesn't resonate the notion of "gaming" to the average non-gamer (Playstation is the clear winner here, and at least Gamecube gave a hint to its function).

Since when does the name of a device have to relate to its function for it to be effective? If you didn't know what one was, would "iPod" resonate the notion of portable music? Does "Google" have anything to do with internet searches? How about "Hummer" - does that word on its own make you think about cars?

With the name being useless to convey anything about the product, advertising and word of mouth take on that function - and they've been pretty effective in the above three cases.

What is it that is appealing to the "new market" of non-gamers?

I already made my point here - it's non-imposing and doesn't immediately invoke thoughts of gaming as it is currently. Which makes sense if you think about it - if you're trying to market your product to someone who's never tried or embraced similar products before, why would you market it in a similar fashion to those other products?

The low price? Sorry, Nintendo has been there already and it resulted in last place.

Wait, so the price was the reason the Cube came in last? It had nothing to do with - oh, I dunno - the relative lack of enough quality games to gain mass acceptance, or Nintendo's failure to shake their kiddy image?

The low specs/lack of HD? Casuals don't care, videogamers/techies do. Good way to alienate your core market.

I doubt gamers will care all that much, seriously. I've seen movies broadcast on my HD channels before, and they honestly don't look that much better than my regular DVDs in 480p. Besides, Resident Evil 4 looked fantastic and I played that in 4:3 Expanded mode in 480i - as long as the Wii can deliver 16:9 480p, I'm good.

And besides besides, there's likely not going to be a whole hell of a lot of difference between the Wii and the PS3/360 anyways, at least not to the point that it's going to turn off anyone but super-elitist graphics whores. The leap between the PSX/Saturn gen and the PS2/Xbox/GC gen was huge - this current one, not so much. I mean, does Dead or Alive 4 really look that much better than Soul Calibur for the DC?

Beginning with the second wave of 360 games, next-gen games will actually start looking next gen, but again I doubt that the gap will be so big it will turn people off the Wii entirely.

The VC? [...] Ha!

[...] And just what does this function do to the already suspected fragile 3rd party support? Sure as hell ain't helping.

You've got a point on the VC, unless they work it like some have suspected and you pay a subscription fee for unlimited plays/downloads (which would make a lot more sense). Unless they offer demo versions of the ROMs for free like XBLA does, I can't see casual gamers paying real money for NES games out of anything but nostalgia (which will wear off pretty quickly).

As far as the "already suspected fragile third party support", Game Informer had an interview this month with one of the NOA VPs who said something along the lines of learning from the mistakes of the Cube and making sure that there's plenty of support/games over the first year of launch (I don't have the mag or the interview in front of me right now).

The "Wiimote"? Are you fucking kidding me? First, it's more complicated in practice.

And you know this...how?

Second, the concept isn't new - why hasn't this technology been embraced by the PC community...after all, a shitload of "casuals" sure as hell own a PC.

What, you mean like a gyroscopic mouse? I would say it's because gyroscopic mice are being adapted to software that wasn't originally designed with that hardware in mind and didn't offer any major advantages/differences.

Whereas in this case the software is being built from the ground up to exclusively work with the new hardware, and the capabilities of the hardware are being taken into account during the design phase to incorporate new ideas that are substantially different from videogame control schemes that we have seen in the past.

Nintendo is fucking up big time - why? Because they have been severely retarded since the SNES and if it weren't for their handhelds, they'd have pulled a Sega.

Honestly, I can't believe anyone is defending Nintendo these days. They've given up...they aren't relevant anymore. Wii is nothing but a last ditch attempt to cater to their home market where MS has a weak hold and at least they have a chance.

If you like Nintendo games, then the Wii is an easy purchase for sure - but for god sakes, don't fucking buy into their bullshit for a 3rd time...or worse yet, be a mouth-piece for their Wii (*runs off laughing like a giddy 5 year old*).

Holy shit, Kali - did Nintendo send someone to personally come over to your house and shove a broomstick up your ass?

(The following rant is more or less an open letter, and not directed solely at Kali.)

I started reading Joystiq, Kotaku, and Fark about a month ago and I read the comments there and on other gaming commentary sites, and I must say, the bashing of a game company is something I will never understand. I mean, how are they personally doing you any harm whatsoever by providing an entertainment product for your consumption? What personal good does it do you, or anyone else, to anonymously and generically rant against a company or game console?

Now, allow me to clarify that ranting against a game, that you personally played and disliked, is perfectly valid. Ranting about said game helps alleviate the frustrations it produced, and can help others make a more informed decision and spend their entertainment dollars more wisely. But ranting against a console is an exercise in futility, as no one person could possibly play every game available for a console and be able to offer a comprehensive opinion about the console's quality, and ranting against a company is an exercise in stupidity as it is completely pointless and doesn't impart any useful information to anyone.

Most perplexing is the tendency people have had lately to bash unreleased consoles. How are you supposed to be able to personally form an informed negative opinion about something that doesn't even exist?

(Aside: Of course, that begs the question about how someone is able to personally form an informed *positive* opinion. To that, I would answer that it is impossible to form a positive pre-release opinion as well. See, since the only pre-release information is usually tightly controlled by the company producing the item and is obviously positive in nature, the only informed opinions one would be able to form would be optimistic, if one believes the hype, or skeptical, if one disbelives it.)

Naturally following my perplexity at *how* someone would form a pre-release negative opinion is *why* someone would. Success in the game industry breeds all sorts of good things: competition, innovation, technological advancement, new IPs - in short, better games. Since the gaming industry is not entirely zero-sum in nature (meaning the percentage of the market that each company holds is while the overall size of the market itself is not), what good does it do any gamer anywhere to put a company down? Why would any gamer not wish for the entire industry to succeed and thus improve his hobby?

Again, there are places where disparagement can be useful - if a game made by a particular company sucks. Negative word-of-mouth around that game will cause sales to drop, thus giving feedback to the developer that they need to do something different to improve their next game - thus again making games better.

I guess my big problem is that I can't understand why any gamer would want anything but games getting better.

(End rant.)

[Julius Seeker]

Since when is HD the standard? It's more of a techie niche thing.

[kali o.]

Since when does the name of a device have to relate to its function for it to be effective? If you didn't know what one was, would "iPod" resonate the notion of portable music? Does "Google" have anything to do with internet searches? How about "Hummer" - does that word on its own make you think about cars?

Bad examples (for instance, Apple branding has been i* for a while and all those products achieved a sort of cultural phenomona you cannot plan)...however, once again - what about the "wii" is supposed to attract some new market of non-gamers?

I already made my point here - it's non-imposing and doesn't immediately invoke thoughts of gaming as it is currently.

Eh...what? So non-imposing (wha?) and not invoking thoughts of its function defines its market? Do you actually believe this statement? Seriously...and if you do, can you try defining/reasoning it a tad more.

Wait, so the price was the reason the Cube came in last? It had nothing to do with - oh, I dunno - the relative lack of enough quality games to gain mass acceptance, or Nintendo's failure to shake their kiddy image?

No, I said it didn't help their position last gen...but you decided to make it the reason they failed (in my words). *shrug*

A bad consumer image with a purple lunchbox didn't help (see "wii"). The lack of online didn't help (see lack of "HD"). The differing media structure hurt ports and mp development (see "flash memory", the "wiimote" or low specs). Exactly what is it that Nintendo "learned"?

The leap between the PSX/Saturn gen and the PS2/Xbox/GC gen was huge - this current one, not so much. I mean, does Dead or Alive 4 really look that much better than Soul Calibur for the DC?

Yes (imo, owning both).

As far as the "already suspected fragile third party support", Game Informer had an interview this month with one of the NOA VPs who said something along the lines of learning from the mistakes of the Cube and making sure that there's plenty of support/games over the first year of launch (I don't have the mag or the interview in front of me right now).

They learned with N64...they learned with the GC. I can't wait till next gen when "they learned from the wii". Keep falling for the company line. That said, where are all the announcements of games?

I started reading Joystiq, Kotaku, and Fark about a month ago and I read the comments there and on other gaming commentary sites, and I must say, the bashing of a game company is something I will never understand. [....a lot of words]

It's not a bash against Nintendo, it's a bash against what I percieve as genuinely stupid gullibility on the part of fans/fellow posters.

Nintendo is bringing a low spec system, at their usual price (likely), with even bigger 3rd party development barriers, a name that really only works in Japan, few game announcements, an input device based on old technology, no bells and whistles and ROMs either most don't care about or you can already get for free.

The fans jump to the conclusion that Nintendo is being "reborn", going to capture a whole new market and are going to take the world by storm.

Help me connect the dots here - before my fucking head implodes. Please.

PS - If I had more time, I'd love to expand on my view of Nintendo, their current state and why they are there. Perhaps later.

PPS - Don't use broken up quotes, it confuses me

[Julius Seeker]

Kali, why are you critisizing Gamecube and N64 game releases when you always seem to praise Xbox which fell short of the software sales of both Nintendo systems? Not to mention, the Gamecube's biggest game, Zelda: The Twilight Princess, has yet to be released.

N64: 225 million sold total, 51 platnum titles (25 of those over 2 million)
GC: 186 million sold total, 36 platnum titles (11 of those over 2 million)
XBX: 178 million sold total, 34 Platnum titles (6 of those over 2 million)

As far as third party support goes for the next Nintendo system, it seems to be quite high. Almost everything that will be made for Xbox 360 will be ports of PS2, PS3, and PC games. The Nintendo Wii will certainly have many many more exclusives because it has a much more diverse control method; many more things can be done with it that other consoles are not capable of.

[Agent 57]

Dammit Kali, I had another reasonably-well-thought-out-yet-obviously-not-elaborate-enough post written up, and then I got to the last part of your post and it pissed me off so much that it completely devolved into flaming, and since I think I'm more mature than that I had to delete the whole thing.

You wanted me to connect the dots? Fine. Here are my positions in a nutshell.

1) The idea of the Wii and its controller excites me. Most importantly, I think the games might be fun. I don't know either way for sure, but no one does.
2) I don't particularly care about the lack of HD or the not-next-gen hardware, as the games will look better than the most powerful current-gen machine (Xbox) at the same resolution.
3) I suspect that the majority of gamers - who, I would hope, like fun games - will share the previous two sentiments. This is why I believe gamers will like the Wii.

4) At first glance, "Wii" is a silly, stupid, nonsensical made-up name for a console. The majority of gamers currently hate it.
5) Since the majority of gamers hate it, I must conclude that Nintendo did not name it to appeal to gamers. It logically follows that they named it to appeal to non-gamers.
6) Non-gamers are currently not gamers for a reason. Since Nintendo has changed the name of the console to appeal to non-gamers, I surmise that Nintendo believes that non-gamers are not gamers because the current culture of gaming does not appeal to them.
7) As you so well pointed out, the name "Wii" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with gaming or the culture of gaming.
8) Thus bypassing that barrier entirely, Nintendo likely hopes to get non-gamers to try the Wii through their upcoming and as-yet unknown marketing campaign.
9) See #1-3.

I don't know that this will definitely work, or if this is even the actual plan - steps 7 and 8 are highly sketchy in either capacity. But with a fucking name like "Wii", it's the only thought process that makes any sense.

[kali o.]

Dammit Kali, I had another reasonably-well-thought-out-yet-obviously-not-elaborate-enough post written up, and then I got to the last part of your post and it pissed me off so much that it completely devolved into flaming, and since I think I'm more mature than that I had to delete the whole thing.

You wanted me to connect the dots? Fine. Here are my positions in a nutshell.

1-3 is about you (and your guess at "fellow gamers"), not the new market of apparent "non-gamers". Good for you, but not really what I was asking.

4-5 is saying "since it is not named to appeal to gamers, it is named to appeal to non-gamers". Taking out the obvious "well what about option C - the name appeals to no one", I am still left with the question of how the hell did you make that jump in logic? Simply stating if not A, then B sure the hell isn't going to suffice. Is there some reason "wii" is appealing to the average joe that I missed? They speak another language maybe?

6 rests on the fact that you actually made a point in 4-5. Apparently, gamers are "another culture" that doesn't appreciate "wii" words like most non-gamers?

7 reinterates a point I made, and loosely connects it to 6 (culture). The counterpoint? I have no idea.

8 lets me know some unknown miracle of advertising is going to convert the world of non-gamers.

9 reminds me that you like the wii.

Add it all up and what do I get? Not a whole lot of "connecting the dots". Apparently you just threw 9 dots in my direction and hoped one hit me in the eye...

Further, it didn't even address my question. Who the fuck cares about the name? It's not a benefit to the image, that's for sure, but it isn't make or break. I asked what the wii (the system) brings to the table that is supposedly going to convert this "new market"?

Call it what you will. Stick a remote on it. Give it crappier graphics. Give it simpler controls. Give it games from 10 years ago. Give it a cheap price tag. IT IS STILL A GAME MACHINE.

Do you really think any of the reasons above are the reason non-gamers don't play games? Don't be ridiculous. Boy oh boy, if I had a nickel for everytime I heard someone say "Oh shit, I'd love to play GTA III, but all those buttons and a stick scare me and I can't pronounce Pee Ess Free...opps, Shee, oops!" huh...

As for your first post disolving into flames...uh Ok. Unless you are related to Nintendo higher ups or own stock, you should probably relax - I have been bashing Nintendo (strategy), not you. Maybe I think your outlook is...naive or misguided at worst.

Edit:

PS - It is amusing to hear you speak of the "kiddie" image being partially responsible for the GC's performance in the same breath as defending "Wheeeeeeeeeee!". Now I'm not saying they should have named it Dark Mega Titty Box but I can't help feel the "happy medium" was missed by a considerable mark...

[Agent 57]

Let me attempt to make this perfectly clear - in this thread, I have been attempting to speak for Nintendo. That's what I've been doing this whole time. I've been GUESSING at things, trying to divine the reasons behind this bizarre move. My entire set of posts in this topic have amounted to "I don't know why they did this, but here's why I think Nintendo did it because they must think it's going to work." Everything I stated in my last post has to be looked at in that light - that fundamental assumption has to be made. You wanna know why? Because adopting any position contrary to that is tantamount to making the assumption that Nintendo named its product to deliberately *decrease* its appeal, which is stupider than the name "Wii" to begin with.

As far as what the Wii brings to the table, you know that already - it's an inexpensive system that happens to incorporate a new kind of control scheme that has been heretofore unused in the gaming world (or at least not well-implemented). Your argument is that because the system is graphically underpowered compared to its competition and the control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community, then it will not be embraced by anyone, gamers and non-gamers alike.

Well, I personally think that the terms "graphically underpowered compared to the competition", "inexpensive", "incorporates a new kind of control scheme heretofore unused in the gaming world", and "control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community" do a good job of describing the DS, which seems to have done pretty well. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine a similar scenario repeating itself.

Regardless of that, I'd like to discuss the real core issue here - as long as the games for the Wii are fun, why the hell should you, or any of us, care about how Nintendo does respective to its competitors? I mean, this whole thing started because I made a post saying that I think the Wii could do well, and you reacted like I cockpunched you or something. "Somebody thinks that they might have fun with a console, and that large numbers of other people might too! That's so stupid and naive! Oh, the humanity!"

Last time I checked, how a console does in the marketplace and how much fun you have playing it are not related in any way, shape, or form (see: me, happy owner of a Saturn, Dreamcast, and GameCube. Also a happy owner of an NES, SNES, PSX, and PS2). So, unless you own stock or are related to Microsoft/Sony higher-ups, please explain why this mattered so much to you that you had to start up a huge argument on a message board, that no one from Nintendo will ever read, that will not ultimately affect anyone's enjoyment of the games on the Wii (including yours, should you try it and ultimately like it).

[kali o.]

Because adopting any position contrary to that is tantamount to making the assumption that Nintendo named its product to deliberately *decrease* its appeal, which is stupider than the name "Wii" to begin with.

So we are back at an if not A, then B arguement....interesting. You are also putting quite a bit of faith in Nintendo for not being one to make stupid moves there. Was alienating and bullying its 3rd parties a smart move? Was telling Sony to take their addon and go home a smart move? Was sticking with carts a smart move? Was making a purple lunch box a smart move? Was making proprietary media a smart move?

If your whole argument is Nintendo doesn't make stupid moves, I am calling your position flimsy.

As far as what the Wii brings to the table, you know that already - it's an inexpensive system that happens to incorporate a new kind of control scheme that has been heretofore unused in the gaming world (or at least not well-implemented). Your argument is that because the system is graphically underpowered compared to its competition and the control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community, then it will not be embraced by anyone, gamers and non-gamers alike.

No, you are subtlely twisting my words. Some gamers might embrace it (Nintendo fans for sure). Some new fans might try it out as a second system (depends). Some former GC owners may walk away from Nintendo. Don't care, was never my point. I asked what it had to do with converting non-gamers. You can dance around my question and twist my words as much as you like - I'll remember my original question.

Well, I personally think that the terms "graphically underpowered compared to the competition", "inexpensive", "incorporates a new kind of control scheme heretofore unused in the gaming world", and "control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community" do a good job of describing the DS, which seems to have done pretty well. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine a similar scenario repeating itself.

Ignoring the fact that the handheld market is entirely different (both expectation-wise and consumer-wise) from home console market, I'll play with this point in terms of the actual subject.

Take a good hard look at Sony's first handheld offering of the PSP. It was hugely successful, given Nintendo's historic domination of the handheld market. Do you know why? It appealed to a different crowd of NON-GAMERS. Sleek, non-toy look, UMD movies (great job over pricing them Sony) pulled in a whole different crowd. When it came to converting "non-gamers", Sony took a logical business approach and included functions that would attract NON-GAMERS (hell, my step dad has a PSP for flights). How is the wii doing something similar? Answer: It isn't.

Regardless of that, I'd like to discuss the real core issue here - as long as the games for the Wii are fun, why the hell should you, or any of us, care about how Nintendo does respective to its competitors? I mean, this whole thing started because I made a post saying that I think the Wii could do well, and you reacted like I cockpunched you or something.

Yes, exactly what you posted, though a whole lot more colorfully worded than "could do well". Do you think I care if you think you'll enjoy it? Don't be stupid. I tend to to view this community as rather intelligent, however, so I will gladly go to bat when someone starts adding comments without reference or logical thought (imo). You stated Wiivolution will convert "non-gamers", I called you on it. Through 3-4 posts you've given me nothing resembling a logical point or proof as to why...the only thing I've gotten is if not A, then B and "Nintendo isn't stupid so they have something up their sleeves".

If that is all you have, then I guess we have nothing left to discuss. But don't think for a second I care whether you will enjoy or are looking forward to a wii - hell, I even stated so in my first post.

So, unless you own stock or are related to Microsoft/Sony higher-ups, please explain why this mattered so much to you that you had to start up a huge argument on a message board, that no one from Nintendo will ever read, that will not ultimately affect anyone's enjoyment of the games on the Wii (including yours, should you try it and ultimately like it).

I already explained myself above, but since you are a fan of rehashing my own statements, I'll conclude by asking "Why are you so willing to have a huge arguement on a messageboard through 3-4 posts and not back up your point with a single piece of plausible proof or fact or anything on topic?"

[Don]

Nintendo systems are great if you enjoy Nintendo games. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the world does not enjoy Nintendo games enough to buy a system only for Nintendo games. Since the N64 era I've yet to see a reason why a Nintendo system is any good if you don't care about Nintendo games, like me for example. I know Nintendo makes more money than anyone else but I'm not a Nintendo shareholder and I'm not buying a system that only has Nintendo names, and neither is the majority of the gaming world. So yes it is valid to consider what else the Wii has to offer to the gaming world and right now it's looking like the same old stuff that might make Nintendo the company some more bucks but does nothing to change the current status for the non Nintendo fan.

[Zeus]

Nintendo systems are great if you enjoy Nintendo games. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the world does not enjoy Nintendo games enough to buy a system only for Nintendo games. Since the N64 era I've yet to see a reason why a Nintendo system is any good if you don't care about Nintendo games, like me for example. I know Nintendo makes more money than anyone else but I'm not a Nintendo shareholder and I'm not buying a system that only has Nintendo names, and neither is the majority of the gaming world. So yes it is valid to consider what else the Wii has to offer to the gaming world and right now it's looking like the same old stuff that might make Nintendo the company some more bucks but does nothing to change the current status for the non Nintendo fan.

The simple fact of the matter is, Nintendo games DO appeal to enough people for Nintendo to support itself with its systems and make more money through both its games and systems than any other similar company (remember, their profit is great than both Microshaft and Sony...the entire companies). So, there are enough to like Nintendo enough to purchase enough systems; it's profitable for them, more profitable than it would be if they became strictly a third-party, and it works for the consumer who likes them, as they have proven through purchasing their systems for 20 years. Again, you don't like it, fine, but it's obviously a successful model. Just because they're third in terms of overall sales, doesn't mean it's not successful.

BTW, the vast majority of the world doesn't like games, period. This is the whole focus of the Wii and the DS, to expand a shrinking market that is bored with the stagnat games market. Now, I'm not so sure it's going to succeed, but that's the idea.

[Zeus]

Because adopting any position contrary to that is tantamount to making the assumption that Nintendo named its product to deliberately *decrease* its appeal, which is stupider than the name "Wii" to begin with.

So we are back at an if not A, then B arguement....interesting. You are also putting quite a bit of faith in Nintendo for not being one to make stupid moves there. Was alienating and bullying its 3rd parties a smart move? Was telling Sony to take their addon and go home a smart move? Was sticking with carts a smart move? Was making a purple lunch box a smart move? Was making proprietary media a smart move?

If your whole argument is Nintendo doesn't make stupid moves, I am calling your position flimsy.

I'll back you up on this one. Their monopolistic mentality back in the day SEVERLY hurt them as it showed that others can enter the market and do very well with some marketing and actually not screwing game-making companies. Biggest mistake they ever made (Virtual Boy was the only other I can think of) and they're still paying for it. Not to say there wouldn't have been others entering the market anyways, but they sure as hell didn't help themselves.

As far as what the Wii brings to the table, you know that already - it's an inexpensive system that happens to incorporate a new kind of control scheme that has been heretofore unused in the gaming world (or at least not well-implemented). Your argument is that because the system is graphically underpowered compared to its competition and the control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community, then it will not be embraced by anyone, gamers and non-gamers alike.

No, you are subtlely twisting my words. Some gamers might embrace it (Nintendo fans for sure). Some new fans might try it out as a second system (depends). Some former GC owners may walk away from Nintendo. Don't care, was never my point. I asked what it had to do with converting non-gamers. You can dance around my question and twist my words as much as you like - I'll remember my original question.

What it has to do with non-gamers is the same thing the iPoD had to do with non-mp3 fans: get them to pay attention. Mind you, Apple has a MUCH better record than Nintendo at this, but it's not like the idea is wrong. And just like with the Gameboy, they've also proven that an underpowered, stupidly-named system can be a resounding success, even with traditional non-gamers (it wasn't just kids who bought the system, as the remake of Mario has proven).

Well, I personally think that the terms "graphically underpowered compared to the competition", "inexpensive", "incorporates a new kind of control scheme heretofore unused in the gaming world", and "control scheme uses old technology that has not been embraced en masse by the PC community" do a good job of describing the DS, which seems to have done pretty well. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine a similar scenario repeating itself.

Ignoring the fact that the handheld market is entirely different (both expectation-wise and consumer-wise) from home console market, I'll play with this point in terms of the actual subject.

Take a good hard look at Sony's first handheld offering of the PSP. It was hugely successful, given Nintendo's historic domination of the handheld market. Do you know why? It appealed to a different crowd of NON-GAMERS. Sleek, non-toy look, UMD movies (great job over pricing them Sony) pulled in a whole different crowd. When it came to converting "non-gamers", Sony took a logical business approach and included functions that would attract NON-GAMERS (hell, my step dad has a PSP for flights). How is the wii doing something similar? Answer: It isn't.

Really, how is the PSP a success? Is it because it's moved a lot of systems? Yeah, it's almost moved as many systems in the US as the DS, but look at the rest of it. The UMD movies are all but dead, Sony themselves are barely supporting it. They did REALLY well for about a month, moving about 100,000 units, but it's barely a trickle now. If you actually look at the sales of the games in terms of both Japanese and US market, they never anything last for any time in the top 20, just like the 'Cube. Talking to store owners, no one buys PSP games any more, there's just nothing good. The reason they're moving systems is 'cause of the piracy available, period. I even saw an interview with a Sony exec on G4 saying "we are looking into what the homebrew community is doing to try to incorporate it into our strategy". Considering that the homebrew community is simply pirating everything they can (a lot of people won't buy a used PSP that has 2.0 or greater firmware on it), that's not a good thing. They're still losing money on each system, so not selling games or movies isn't a good thing and I doubt they're making that much off of the 2GB memory sticks. It's about as successful as the Gamecube or the Game Gear.

Regardless of that, I'd like to discuss the real core issue here - as long as the games for the Wii are fun, why the hell should you, or any of us, care about how Nintendo does respective to its competitors? I mean, this whole thing started because I made a post saying that I think the Wii could do well, and you reacted like I cockpunched you or something.

Yes, exactly what you posted, though a whole lot more colorfully worded than "could do well". Do you think I care if you think you'll enjoy it? Don't be stupid. I tend to to view this community as rather intelligent, however, so I will gladly go to bat when someone starts adding comments without reference or logical thought (imo). You stated Wiivolution will convert "non-gamers", I called you on it. Through 3-4 posts you've given me nothing resembling a logical point or proof as to why...the only thing I've gotten is if not A, then B and "Nintendo isn't stupid so they have something up their sleeves".

If that is all you have, then I guess we have nothing left to discuss. But don't think for a second I care whether you will enjoy or are looking forward to a wii - hell, I even stated so in my first post.

Can't really argue here. I think there's a chance they can convert some, but they don't have the best track record at it and I'm not sure such a name or Nintendo's marketing will actually do it. The only chance they have is to stick a demo unit in every Walmart and Best Buy and hope that people's curiosity takes over, just like Guitar Hero. This system's ENTIRE success depends on getting as many people to try it as possible, that's it. And maybe getting an article in Time or on CNN or other outlets where we don't see many games.

So, unless you own stock or are related to Microsoft/Sony higher-ups, please explain why this mattered so much to you that you had to start up a huge argument on a message board, that no one from Nintendo will ever read, that will not ultimately affect anyone's enjoyment of the games on the Wii (including yours, should you try it and ultimately like it).

I already explained myself above, but since you are a fan of rehashing my own statements, I'll conclude by asking "Why are you so willing to have a huge arguement on a messageboard through 3-4 posts and not back up your point with a single piece of plausible proof or fact or anything on topic?"

Because that's what boards like this are for: bitching for no reason. We're all quite good at it and have had many years of practice :-)

[Julius Seeker]

I'm going to focus mainly on numbers:

Nintendo systems are great if you enjoy Nintendo games. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the world does not enjoy Nintendo games enough to buy a system only for Nintendo games. Since the N64 era I've yet to see a reason why a Nintendo system is any good if you don't care about Nintendo games, like me for example. I know Nintendo makes more money than anyone else but I'm not a Nintendo shareholder and I'm not buying a system that only has Nintendo names, and neither is the majority of the gaming world. So yes it is valid to consider what else the Wii has to offer to the gaming world and right now it's looking like the same old stuff that might make Nintendo the company some more bucks but does nothing to change the current status for the non Nintendo fan.

Valid (to consider what else the Wii has to offer to the gaming world and right now it's looking like the same old stuff), but highly foolish, because we know for certain that the Wii is vastly more versatile than anything else yet seen on the console market. Also, I don't know where you get the idea that the system has only Nintendo games, none of the actual games that have been shown so far are from Nintendo, they're Namco, Ubisoft, EA, and Konami; and they are exclusive titles.

Also, the vast majority of the world doesn't play videogames, period. As far as gamers go, there are over 120 million DSs, Gamecubes, and GBAs out there right now, I think a it's safe to say that (conservatively) at least half the amount of gamers in the world are alright with Nintendo games if indeed that is all that can be played on them (which is ridiculous to say).

Just because they're third in terms of overall sales, doesn't mean it's not successful.

If you are just looking at PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox games, Nintendo is #2 as Gamecube software outsold Microsoft software worldwide.


On the PSP (since its success is in discussion), it is quite far behind in all three major markets: Sony has only released official shipment numbers, and not sales numbers (besides when it was doing well for a whole 2 weeks in the UK) because they are too embarassed to reveal that 9-10 million PSPs are sitting in warehouses. There's a single game on PSP over 1 million units, GTA Liberty City Stories, no games over 2 million. 7 games over 2 million on DS, 4 of those games exceed 3 million, and 1 game exceeds 6 million. Sony has to show a lot of good things for the PSP, because currently it is a distant third in the handheld market.

[kali o.]

I spent some time browsing the archives and learned the following:

- Mental is hella 'emo', only behind WolfSamurai.

- Slappy and El Kabong are missed.

- GMJ posted a whole lot.

- I used to make fun of Tessian.

- Black Lotus always wanted to flame/argue with me, much to my apparent delight.

- I flamed a whole lot, I can't believe anyone put up with me even though I was clearly just joking.

- We had some pretty funny ass threads back then.

- Zeus has referred to MS as Microshaft for years.

and most importantly:

- Seeker was a HUGE Nintendo fanboy that predicted the GC would "crush the Xbox", that the Xbox would completely fail and that my predictions about GC/Nintendo's obvious 3rd place finish were completely offbase.

I just want to take this opportunity to finally say:

"Haha, told you! I was right, you were wrong. Stupid Canadian."

[Oracle]

"Haha, told you! I was right, you were wrong. Stupid Canadian."

I may be misinformed, but are you not also Canadian?

[kali o.]

"Haha, told you! I was right, you were wrong. Stupid Canadian."

I may be misinformed, but are you not also Canadian?

No, I'm British Columbian (ask Seeker or Zeus, there is a difference). Similar to a Californian, just cleaner and more pompous.

[Oracle]

"Haha, told you! I was right, you were wrong. Stupid Canadian."

I may be misinformed, but are you not also Canadian?

No, I'm British Columbian (ask Seeker or Zeus, there is a difference). Similar to a Californian, just cleaner and more pompous.

Ask a Californian which county they are from, they woulnd't say California. I guess that's where the "more pompous" fits in!

[Nev]

I spent some time browsing the archives and learned the following:

- Mental is hella 'emo', only behind WolfSamurai.

CRAAAAAWLING in my SKIIIIIIN....these WOOOOUUUNDS, they WILLLLLLL, not HEEEEEeEEAALLLLLLLLLL.....

Very true, but my sense of humor will prevent me from bailing and completely disappearing like Wolf, I think.

[kali o.]

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=17116

[Julius Seeker]

As for Gamecube vs. Xbox. Gamecube beat Xbox in software sales by several million, even though Xbox was ahead in hardware. I am impressed by Microsofts debut, I didn't think they would sell 10 million let alone over 20 million. Though didn't you think Xbox was going to be right up there with PS2?

Either way: I had almost forgot about Wolfsamurai. I wonder how that guy made out with the razorblades I mailed him? =)

[Eric]

Can't wii all just get along?!

[Julius Seeker]

Can't wii all just get along?!

Yeah, but what's the fun in that? =P