Wow @ Mel Gibson

[Flip]

Grade A asshole.

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/2006 ... 16000.html

[Lox]

Yeah, I heard about that.

I couldn't believe it. I can't say I'm not disapointed.

[Nev]

I can. There's a ridiculous amount of racism in Hollywood. It's just usually not directed towards Jews because so many studio heads and important figures in moviemaking are Jewish. At least he's honest.

Besides which, did you guys not know Gibson was an anti-Semite? I thought that had been all over the news since Passion of the Christ.

[Flip]

I had heard the rumor, but didnt think it was true since he denied it at the time.

[Lox]

He doesn't get his own movie if he is. That's the sad part!

[Nev]

People will hate. This is not new. But he doesn't have a monopoly on this.

Most deeply religious people I know are, to a small extent anyway, either phobic or misanthropic towards competing belief systems. If I had a dollar for every time my Jewish friend told me about how the Bible is self-contradictory and ridiculous...

[Zeus]

I can. There's a ridiculous amount of racism in Hollywood. It's just usually not directed towards Jews because so many studio heads and important figures in moviemaking are Jewish. At least he's honest.

Besides which, did you guys not know Gibson was an anti-Semite? I thought that had been all over the news since Passion of the Christ.

It's usually not directed at Jews due to the work of the Jewish lobby group over the last 50+ years. They're all over anything which isn't positive towards Jews, not just things which are negative. I'm sure the group was lickin' their chops to jump all over him every chance they got after The Boredom, Dear Christ! which, due to the fact that it didn't blow every Jew in America, was considered "anti-Semetic".

[kali o.]

It's usually not directed at Jews due to the work of the Jewish lobby group over the last 50+ years. They're all over anything which isn't positive towards Jews, not just things which are negative. I'm sure the group was lickin' their chops to jump all over him every chance they got after The Boredom, Dear Christ! which, due to the fact that it didn't blow every Jew in America, was considered "anti-Semetic".

You are almost as bad with statement. You might want to observe history (on all sides) a little closer to temper your rather skewed viewpoint. I don't think I've ever accused you of racism in the past...but you are treadin pretty close with those comments.

[Ishamael]

Who you looking at, sugar tits?

[Zeus]

It's usually not directed at Jews due to the work of the Jewish lobby group over the last 50+ years. They're all over anything which isn't positive towards Jews, not just things which are negative. I'm sure the group was lickin' their chops to jump all over him every chance they got after The Boredom, Dear Christ! which, due to the fact that it didn't blow every Jew in America, was considered "anti-Semetic".

You are almost as bad with statement. You might want to observe history (on all sides) a little closer to temper your rather skewed viewpoint. I don't think I've ever accused you of racism in the past...but you are treadin pretty close with those comments.

If you read that post, it was directed at the Jewish lobby group, not the Jewish people. I DESPISE all lobby groups that try to make one sector of the population more important than another. I have bitched endless about the NRA, if you recall correctly. This had nothing to do with race, it was all about the crap lobby groups pull off.

[kali o.]

If you read that post, it was directed at the Jewish lobby group, not the Jewish people. I DESPISE all lobby groups that try to make one sector of the population more important than another. I have bitched endless about the NRA, if you recall correctly. This had nothing to do with race, it was all about the crap lobby groups pull off.

I read your post...and saw a slant. Still do. You could of course point me to some specific examples of the "crap they pull off" that has earned your despise, I could be wrong after all.

[Zeus]

If you read that post, it was directed at the Jewish lobby group, not the Jewish people. I DESPISE all lobby groups that try to make one sector of the population more important than another. I have bitched endless about the NRA, if you recall correctly. This had nothing to do with race, it was all about the crap lobby groups pull off.

I read your post...and saw a slant. Still do. You could of course point me to some specific examples of the "crap they pull off" that has earned your despise, I could be wrong after all.

Well, the "crap" referred to stuff that all lobby groups pull up on a regular basis, so here's some examples:

1) NRA - no one needs an Uzi to protect their home, period
2) Oil industry - check out the movie "who killed the electric car?"
3) Jewish lobby group - in case you didn't know, "semites" includes the Arabs from the same area as the Jews, but I'm willing to bet that most don't know that
4) NRA - it wasn't guns that killed the kids at Columbine, it was Doom.
5) Jewish lobby group - they slammed Munich, a film made by an esteemed filmmaker they've praised in the past and who is a proud Jew, simply because it didn't portray the Jews of the time in a positive light; never mind whether or not it was historically accurate (not sure if it was, but they didn't care) or whether or not it brought up some good points (I don't know if it did as I haven't seen it yet, but again, they don't care)

And those are ones that I thought of in 12 seconds. I'm sure we could spend 20,000 words discussing the junk that lobby groups have pressured the "caring" politicians to do over the course of time....and you wouldn't even scratch the surface.

I'm sure you would see even less of a slant in my post slamming the lobby group rather than a race of people if these lobby groups hadn't made you so sensitive to these issues. You damned right I despise these groups, I make no secret of it. I think lobby groups, along with the central credit union, are some of the biggest banes of society. Again, read my post and you'll see my ire was directly SOLELY at the lobby group, not the people.

[kali o.]

Well, the "crap" referred to stuff that all lobby groups pull up on a regular basis, so here's some examples:

1) NRA - no one needs an Uzi to protect their home, period
2) Oil industry - check out the movie "who killed the electric car?"
3) Jewish lobby group - in case you didn't know, "semites" includes the Arabs from the same area as the Jews, but I'm willing to bet that most don't know that
4) NRA - it wasn't guns that killed the kids at Columbine, it was Doom.
5) Jewish lobby group - they slammed Munich, a film made by an esteemed filmmaker they've praised in the past and who is a proud Jew, simply because it didn't portray the Jews of the time in a positive light; never mind whether or not it was historically accurate (not sure if it was, but they didn't care) or whether or not it brought up some good points (I don't know if it did as I haven't seen it yet, but again, they don't care)

And those are ones that I thought of in 12 seconds. I'm sure we could spend 20,000 words discussing the junk that lobby groups have pressured the "caring" politicians to do over the course of time....and you wouldn't even scratch the surface.

I'm sure you would see even less of a slant in my post slamming the lobby group rather than a race of people if these lobby groups hadn't made you so sensitive to these issues. You damned right I despise these groups, I make no secret of it. I think lobby groups, along with the central credit union, are some of the biggest banes of society. Again, read my post and you'll see my ire was directly SOLELY at the lobby group, not the people.

Sorry mate, gonna have to splash a little bit of commonsense into your reply. I asked what the "Jewish Lobby Group" has supposedly done to earn your "despise". What you returned was:

- 2 NRA examples
- One Oil company conspiracy theory
- Something to do with the definition of semites and I guess the general western misconception of the word (all being the fault of the "Jewish Lobby Group" I guess...?)
- Apparently, this "they" group again was at it again, criticizing a movie you haven't seen and can't really comment on one way or the other.

So let's see...60% unrelated to any jewish group, make believe or otherwise. 20% is just ridiculous. The last 20% relates to something completely fluff worthy - in which you are entirely ignorant on (seeing neither the film nor know any supposed criticism).

Wow, no wonder those fucking jew groups earned your "despise"...

Look, I couldn't give less of a shit if you are racist or not...in fact, given your ethnic background and my own travels in that region, I'd be surprised if you weren't at least a little bit. But don't lie to yourself or me...and if I'm wrong, put forth more than 12 seconds of thought to prove it, instead of the dumb reasoning you just provided me (hell, I'd prefer you just ignore/dismiss me than what you wrote above).

[Zeus]

Well, the "crap" referred to stuff that all lobby groups pull up on a regular basis, so here's some examples:

1) NRA - no one needs an Uzi to protect their home, period
2) Oil industry - check out the movie "who killed the electric car?"
3) Jewish lobby group - in case you didn't know, "semites" includes the Arabs from the same area as the Jews, but I'm willing to bet that most don't know that
4) NRA - it wasn't guns that killed the kids at Columbine, it was Doom.
5) Jewish lobby group - they slammed Munich, a film made by an esteemed filmmaker they've praised in the past and who is a proud Jew, simply because it didn't portray the Jews of the time in a positive light; never mind whether or not it was historically accurate (not sure if it was, but they didn't care) or whether or not it brought up some good points (I don't know if it did as I haven't seen it yet, but again, they don't care)

And those are ones that I thought of in 12 seconds. I'm sure we could spend 20,000 words discussing the junk that lobby groups have pressured the "caring" politicians to do over the course of time....and you wouldn't even scratch the surface.

I'm sure you would see even less of a slant in my post slamming the lobby group rather than a race of people if these lobby groups hadn't made you so sensitive to these issues. You damned right I despise these groups, I make no secret of it. I think lobby groups, along with the central credit union, are some of the biggest banes of society. Again, read my post and you'll see my ire was directly SOLELY at the lobby group, not the people.

Sorry mate, gonna have to splash a little bit of commonsense into your reply. I asked what the "Jewish Lobby Group" has supposedly done to earn your "despise". What you returned was:

- 2 NRA examples
- One Oil company conspiracy theory
- Something to do with the definition of semites and I guess the general western misconception of the word (all being the fault of the "Jewish Lobby Group" I guess...?)
- Apparently, this "they" group again was at it again, criticizing a movie you haven't seen and can't really comment on one way or the other.

So let's see...60% unrelated to any jewish group, make believe or otherwise. 20% is just ridiculous. The last 20% relates to something completely fluff worthy - in which you are entirely ignorant on (seeing neither the film nor know any supposed criticism).

Wow, no wonder those fucking jew groups earned your "despise"...

Look, I couldn't give less of a shit if you are racist or not...in fact, given your ethnic background and my own travels in that region, I'd be surprised if you weren't at least a little bit. But don't lie to yourself or me...and if I'm wrong, put forth more than 12 seconds of thought to prove it, instead of the dumb reasoning you just provided me (hell, I'd prefer you just ignore/dismiss me than what you wrote above).

You obviously aren't going to listen to me and have already made up your mind that I am racist to some degree. You, of course, would know me well enough to make this deduction. I could sit here until my fingers fall off and prove it to you but it won't matter. What I tried to do was actually follow through what my posts have been saying and you've ignored it completely. If you actually a) read what I wrote without screening out what doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion and b) actual pay attention to my posts here over the last 10 years, you would know better than to post something like that. Don't believe me? Ask Gray, he'll tell you better. I know he's not here much anymore, but he lurks. The notion that I'm a racist is completely ridiculous and is SOLELY propogated by the fact that I'm a Palestinian saying something which criticized the Jewish lobby group.

Never mind the fact from the beginning I've said it was the lobby group and not the people that I'm pissed off at and that it's lobby groups in general and if you read the original post that has made me a "racist", you will see NOTHING against the people themselves and ONLY against the lobby group and the follow up posts have slammed lobby groups in general. The ENTIRE reason I did that was to prove that it wasn't just the Jewish lobby group I despise in general, it's all; they just happened to be the target of my ire for this particular issue and it has NOTHING to do with the race they represent.

And again, it has nothing to do with the film but rather the lobby group's response to it. You don't need to see the movie to see the slant in the group's slander of it.

Nope, none of that stuff is important, hence the complete ignoring of these facts by you.

That's fine, nothing I can do about it. No sense in trying anymore. Looks like their efforts have worked on at least one person as a Palestinian attempting to make a criticism of the group's effort has been blown out of proportion. You see, if there's any group that's actually been slandered in the western world, it's the Arabs. But we're too fucking stupid and fight each other to have a lobby group to protect us.

Such slanders towards the Arabs I have made over the years and they have been deserved. Of course, you seem to ignore those as well.

[Julius Seeker]

"While the State exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State."

A quote made by a Jew, one that I really like. Depending on the definition of freedom, it is one I would strongly agree with. This Jewish man, however, I would think would have completely hated the idea of Zionism.

I know my quote is hardly relevent to the current argument. I don't want the fight to stop. I think it is hillarious having someone of Jewish ancestry arguing with someone of Palestinian ancestry. Maybe I shouldn't find it so, but then again I'm part German myself, I am probably racist.

[kali o.]

You obviously aren't going to listen to me and have already made up your mind that I am racist to some degree. You, of course, would know me well enough to make this deduction. I could sit here until my fingers fall off and prove it to you but it won't matter. What I tried to do was actually follow through what my posts have been saying and you've ignored it completely. If you actually a) read what I wrote without screening out what doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion and b) actual pay attention to my posts here over the last 10 years, you would know better than to post something like that. Don't believe me? Ask Gray, he'll tell you better. I know he's not here much anymore, but he lurks. The notion that I'm a racist is completely ridiculous and is SOLELY propogated by the fact that I'm a Palestinian saying something which criticized the Jewish lobby group.

Never mind the fact from the beginning I've said it was the lobby group and not the people that I'm pissed off at and that it's lobby groups in general and if you read the original post that has made me a "racist", you will see NOTHING against the people themselves and ONLY against the lobby group and the follow up posts have slammed lobby groups in general. The ENTIRE reason I did that was to prove that it wasn't just the Jewish lobby group I despise in general, it's all; they just happened to be the target of my ire for this particular issue and it has NOTHING to do with the race they represent.

And again, it has nothing to do with the film but rather the lobby group's response to it. You don't need to see the movie to see the slant in the group's slander of it.

Nope, none of that stuff is important, hence the complete ignoring of these facts by you.

That's fine, nothing I can do about it. No sense in trying anymore. Looks like their efforts have worked on at least one person as a Palestinian attempting to make a criticism of the group's effort has been blown out of proportion. You see, if there's any group that's actually been slandered in the western world, it's the Arabs. But we're too fucking stupid and fight each other to have a lobby group to protect us.

Such slanders towards the Arabs I have made over the years and they have been deserved. Of course, you seem to ignore those as well.

Now you are doing nothing more than verbally dancing - feigning indignation or doing yourself the disservice of imagining reasons to find personal slight and rant about it. Either one, I won't play into your distraction.

The fact is your comments and opinion of a "Jewish Lobby Group" and zionist propaganda machine hints racism (or perhaps more fairly, ignorance) to me, without a single lick of logical reasoning behind it...and that's all I asked, and still ask, you to provide at the admission "I could be wrong". You didn't provide it.

You can make it as personal as you like; fuel your defensive fire. Pretend I didn't take issue with your actual comments and instead decided it was your ethnic background that pushed me to question you. Pretend I don't believe anyone of Arab decent is allowed to say anything negative about a Jewish organization (government, etc) without being a racist. Hell, accuse me again of covering my ears, saying "lalalalala" and not listening to you - despite clearly hearing someone who claims to "despise lobby groups" in one breath, and laments the lack of anything similar for the arabs in the next. Claim whatever you like Zeus...and make it as personal as you deem needed.

3 outcomes are all I expect:

- You ignore me.
- You actually provide some worthwhile reasoning behind your comments and I see I was mistaken.
- You decide maybe you are a bit racist.

Either way, Zeus, it's not personal - it's honestly calling you on a comment. I like you either way - whether you like me questioning you or not

[Flip]

The funny thing is, Kali, that you are doing almost exactly what Zeus said in his comment that you found offensive:

"They're all over anything which isn't positive towards Jews, not just things which are negative. I'm sure the group was lickin' their chops to jump all over him every chance they got after The Boredom, Dear Christ! which, due to the fact that it didn't blow every Jew in America, was considered "anti-Semetic"."

You are taking one little comment about Jewish lobby groups and are jumping all over him with the racist card.

Whats the big deal?

[Flip]

EDIT:: oops double post

[Flip]

EDIT:: oops triple post

[kali o.]

You aren't giving me much to respond too Flip. I didn't take anything out of context - I simply called him on a comment.

In a thread about some silly Gibson scandal, someone posts about "alot of racism in Hollywood". Zeus' reply goes off into a silly tangent about Jewish lobby groups and how thanks to them the modern definition of "anti-semetic" is "not blowing every jew".

I've travelled through the internet gutters enough in my time to notice a bigotted/ignorant statement when I see one. That said, I admitted I could be wrong and asked him to back it up. That's where we are now.

Could I be wrong about zeus? Sure. Could I be right? Obviously I think I might be, hence my calling him on it. Do I care at the end of the day? Not especially - but that's just the way I am

[kali o.]

Here's my question..... can you hate Israel and not hate jews? I like to think of myself as an anti-defamist and a feminist. I guess that has nothing to do with the feminist part, but can I be when I have serious issues with everything that Israel does? It's kind of like... can I like americans but hate america? can I like catholics but hate all the decisions coming out of the vatican?

Sorry to break up your little hug and kiss-fest, but I didn't want to start a new thread... and I think someone here can give me an answer.

I think you can. Israel is a place. Its government/policies are often despicable, as is that of their neighbors. It brings out a lot of ugly in the world - from the deep seeded hate in that part of the globe, to highlighting western economic interests that seems to lead to actions that hurt the world over. Nothing but death and violence stems from its existence it seems and it represents the polar opposite of, what I believe, it should.

You can hate Israel...I do.

[Flip]

He already stated that the group was all over movies like The Passion and Munich. It is true, they were. Done deal. What more do you need?

[Nev]

* gets popcorn *

You're right, Kali. Sometimes this is pretty entertaining. ^_^

[Julius Seeker]

Actually, I don't think Kali has really stated that he thinks there is even a problem if Zeus is a little racist (not that I am jumping into this here); and he has stated the opposite. He has just called him out on something, and he says he could be wrong as well.

[Julius Seeker]

Actually, I don't think Kali has really stated that he thinks there is even a problem if Zeus is a little racist (not that I am jumping into this here); and he has stated the opposite. He has just called him out on something, and he says he could be wrong as well.

[Julius Seeker]

Actually, I don't think Kali has really stated that he thinks there is even a problem if Zeus is a little racist (not that I am jumping into this here); and he has stated the opposite. He has just called him out on something, and he says he could be wrong as well.

[Julius Seeker]

Actually, I don't think Kali has really stated that he thinks there is even a problem if Zeus is a little racist (not that I am jumping into this here); and he has stated the opposite. He has just called him out on something, and he says he could be wrong as well.

[Zeus]

Here's my question..... can you hate Israel and not hate jews? I like to think of myself as an anti-defamist and a feminist. I guess that has nothing to do with the feminist part, but can I be when I have serious issues with everything that Israel does? It's kind of like... can I like americans but hate america? can I like catholics but hate all the decisions coming out of the vatican?

Sorry to break up your little hug and kiss-fest, but I didn't want to start a new thread... and I think someone here can give me an answer.

Of course. You can despise the current Israeli politicians and still be perfectly fine with Jewish people in general. This is where I am, except I toss in the lobby group with them due to my disdain of lobby groups in general. There's nothing that says that just because you hate one group within a race that you hate the entire group. Just be careful not to judge the entire race based on that one group. That'll be like judging all caucasions based on the KKK members.

[Zeus]

He already stated that the group was all over movies like The Passion and Munich. It is true, they were. Done deal. What more do you need?

This is where the lobby group's efforts pay off, making you think that there's more to it that just that, as we have seen above. Making you over sensitive to an issue to the point where you find "anti-semetic" remarks where there isn't any. This is the entire root of my disdain not only for the Jewish lobby group but for all lobby groups in general. They make you think their cause is more important than others. I'm pretty sure if the gypsies had a lobby group, we'd all see many more specials and portrayals in movies over the 500,000+ gypsies who died in the Holocaust as well.

Now let's see how this post gets twisted all to hell for no good reason whatsoever.

[Zeus]

3 outcomes are all I expect:

- You ignore me.
- You actually provide some worthwhile reasoning behind your comments and I see I was mistaken.
- You decide maybe you are a bit racist.

Either way, Zeus, it's not personal - it's honestly calling you on a comment. I like you either way - whether you like me questioning you or not

If you didn't see any worthwhile reasoning behind my comments in my follow-up posts, then there's nothing more I can say. I didn't want to ignore you as I deem that to be a pussy move and I know I'm not a racist, so I could only really respond in one way: prove you interpreted my initial response wrong.

I did everything in my power to prove to you that the original post was directed at the lobby group and doesn't have anything to do with racism on any level since it was not directed at the race but rather the lobby group. I did this by reading the post carefully to ensure that I didn't inadvertently put any remarks that could be construed as being racist then explaining the post and what it meant hoping you would go back and read it and say "oops, maybe I was wrong in deducing that since it was nowhere in the post".

At that point, if you read my reply, there was absolutely no defensiveness whatsoever (for future reference, if you call someone a racist and don't expect them on some level to take it personally, you're sorely mistaken; and it took me a few posts before I got to that point rather than others who would just slammed you for even mentioning it). It was only after your utter refusal to read what I had written then and afterwards, further elaborating on the same point I made in my initial response, and actually consider the facts within those posts and continuously refer to me as a racist did you see any defensiveness. Hey, what was I going to do? Someone stood up and called me a racist repeatedly in public, I have to at least respond, regardless of how ridiculous I know that remark to be.

I took it defensively only in the sense that I don't like being labelled in public something which I deem to be very bad and something I ensure I don't do ever. This is a very big problem with Arabs in general and I despise it and ensure I never do it. Personally, I don't take anything said by anyone online to heart, so it's not like I'm huddled in the corner every night in the fetal position sobbing like a little baby here. But if you just take a look at what I wrote and understand that it was a simple misinterpretation on your part (note in the original post there was reference only to the Jewish lobby group and not the people themselves), we could have saved a lot of strain on Sine's website account. But how much fun would that have been? :-)

*Forrest Gump* And that's all I have to say about thaat.

[Julius Seeker]

Something quite interesting. For Zeus:

Look in the 1938 World Almanac, on page 510, it states that the world Jewish population is 15,748,091.

Now, check the World Almanac for 1947, and check on page 748, World Jewish Population, 15,690,000.

Now, I am not sure, but I think there is something suspicious about those numbers. I am not saying 6 million Jews didn't die in 1945, I'm just saying that the World Almanac has some interesting statistics (possibly faulty, I don't know how accurate it is).

[Flip]

Soooo.... 6 million died and 5,941,909 were born, whats the problem?