The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • Bailout Rant....

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #129983  by Imakeholesinu
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:08 am
I've been having several heated discussions at work during lunch about politics and the bailout and such. It seems everytime we all get together we all have a ridiculously obvious and workable solution yet our politicians couldn't find their way out of a paper bag much less use common sense.

Here is something that someone proposed that I think would have worked.

Take the 840 Billion dollars and distribute it amongst the people. After all it is our money. 840 Billion divided amongst 300 million americans equals out to about $2800. What I would have proposed would have been to start with the people and work your way up. If everyone received this amount instead of the banks, I would be $3000 less in credit card debt. Thus freeing up money that Citi, Wachovia, and WaMu don't have right now. This would also keep my credit card rates the same as I've just freed up a bunch of used cash. Homeowners would be able to use that money to help them limp 2 or 3 more months till the credit industry unfroze and then they were able to re-finance to a 30 year fixed rate. This would also stop banks from collapsing since they wouldn't have a bunch of home foreclosures and instead more people would be able to stay in their homes and now be able to make payments. We wouldn't hear about the bonuses executives would take or the retreats because the government never gave them a bailout so immediately those would be cut from the budget to save people's jobs. Some banks would still be bought out but you wouldn't have as many.

The Auto-industry would still be in bad shape because, well it's the fucking auto-industry and all three of those fucks are idiots who ran their companies into the ground and wanted to avoid competition from the world market. When you think about it, these guys have no global market experience whatsoever. When the Japanese invaded the market in the 80's, rather than innovate, they laughed at the cars. Now the Honda Civic is the most purchased car in the US and not the F-150.

Again, this goes on the theory that people will use the bailout money much the same way they used the stimulus package, pay off high-interest credit card debt, or save it for a rainy day. This also goes with the fact that the government is horrible at managing our money and where it goes. The Fed, The Treasury and everyone in congress should have let the people decide who stays and who goes.

 #129984  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:39 pm
Now, I am not well studied on the situation, but that sounds somewhat of the opposite of what loaning institutions want. Debt can be viewed as a product which is rented out to people for the price of the accumulating interest. If you give the money back, sure the banks get their money back, but now their product is no longer rented out, and therefore not creating new money for them.

 #129989  by Zeus
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:24 pm
You don't give money to people. Otherwise you'll see a spike in porn, booze, ciagarettes, video games, and drugs spending and that ain't good for anyone.

Any "bailout" of any kind to any one has to come with restrictions, consequences, and an action plan to ensure it don't happen again. How can you control what the 300M people spend it on? Coupons like food stamps?

 #129992  by Anarky
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:00 pm
Personally I have no debt and have been saving for the last year. I don't have any car payments or anything to really worry about past the standard bills of Rent, Insurance, Power, Gas, Internet/Cable. If the government did give me 3000 I'd probably just add it to my bank CD. The people in trouble may use it to pay off their credit cards and what have you, but chances are no. We got into this mess because people were living above their means and buying things they couldn't afford, and giving them money may just be a wave of retarded spending sprees for some.

Part of me is glad this is happening and I hope it teaches people a lesson. Another part of me is scared because even though I've been responsible I'm paying for other peoples fuck ups, and I could end up unemployed and blow through my savings.

 #129995  by Zeus
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:59 pm
Anarky wrote:Part of me is glad this is happening and I hope it teaches people a lesson.
Pfft. If there's any one constant is that the public is never wrong. Notice how all the focus and talk is on the companies and how they fucked up. But no one is standing up on the top of the hill saying "listen you dumb fucks. We wouldn't be in this predicament if you idiots had bothered for a second to do a simple cost-benefit-analysis or a cash flow analysis to determine what you should or should not be committing to". You get small articles here and there but no one ever points the finger at the public. They're as much to blame as anyone. If they weren't greedy themselves trying to live beyond their means this wouldn't be nearly as bad either. There's just as much blame going to the public as there is to the corporations.

Call it the American Dream Effect

 #130000  by Tessian
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:44 pm
There's too many long winded replies for me to bother reading them all so I can't tell if this has been said... but one major flaw in your plan there Barret is that the bailout money is a LOAN, NOT free money. What you propose is giving people MORE free money (haven't we already had 2 'stimulus packages' in the past 6-8 years?) which is vastly different. The government gets all this bailout money back, with interest, assuming the companies don't default in some way.

 #130002  by Imakeholesinu
 Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:37 pm
Tessian wrote:There's too many long winded replies for me to bother reading them all so I can't tell if this has been said... but one major flaw in your plan there Barret is that the bailout money is a LOAN, NOT free money. What you propose is giving people MORE free money (haven't we already had 2 'stimulus packages' in the past 6-8 years?) which is vastly different. The government gets all this bailout money back, with interest, assuming the companies don't default in some way.
That's what taxes are for. Oh and I have to laugh at your naivety that you think that these are loans that are going to be paid back.

 #130038  by Imakeholesinu
 Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:39 pm

 #130044  by Tessian
 Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:42 pm
That talks about how they'll come up with the money, not about it being repaid. It's NOT free money- one of the things they were selling people on was that while the american people take the risk, they also reap the reward when the loan is repaid.

 #130048  by Imakeholesinu
 Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:01 pm
Tessian wrote:
That talks about how they'll come up with the money, not about it being repaid. It's NOT free money- one of the things they were selling people on was that while the american people take the risk, they also reap the reward when the loan is repaid.
But the problem is if we bailout these banks and they still fail, then what happens? They can't pay back the loan. That money is gone. Caput. Good bye.

For example, if we bailout GM, Crystler and Ford, what happens when they all go to Chapter 11? We don't get SHIT back. If AIG, Citi, Chase, Wachovia etc, etc, STILL tank now WE DON'T GET THAT FUCKING MONEY BACK! That money is GONE. Not only that but if a bank buys another bank before it goes under, the only reason that bank can do that is if the government forgives the purchasor of said bank to forgive the federal loan. Thus, that money is gone. THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING THAT FROM POSSIBLY HAPPENING and it probably will happen.

The government has made a BAD investment with OUR tax dollars that could have been AVOIDED if they had used the system in the link I just provided.