Freeper gets court owned

[SineSwiper]

http://www.strangebeaver.com/2012/09/sm ... urt-house/

I mean, I can't even watch the whole thing. It's that much EPIC FAIL contained in a single video.

[kali o.]

That was pretty funny....but why are tasers the first line of defense? They can kill people.

[Eric]

Kali, there are some things we should question, this is however, is not one of them.

The world needs moar "Don't taze me bro" moments.

[Flip]

That was pretty funny....but why are tasers the first line of defense? They can kill people.

What would you use instead? Physical force turns ugly and I think tasers are safer than just about anything else. I wish they would have kicked that kid a bunch of times while he was on the ground.

[kali o.]

lol, you guys. Here is the squence of events:

- "step back"
- half second pause
- Taser

The guy is a moron but he wasn't a threat. I can see the humour in the video but are you *really* behind the use of force there? Do you really want police tasing the mentally ill and stupid of the world if they aren't a threat? It's not a far line from you getting tased because you don't like an officers attitude when you are pulled over. I don't want to be fucking tased. *shudders*

[Flip]

I don't want to be fucking tased. *shudders*

Then dont be a dick to cops. That guy was a dick.

[Shrinweck]

They should have given him more time to comply but based on his CONSTANT bitching immediately after the tasing it couldn't have been a full charge. Law enforcement should use better judgment in general when it comes to tasing. They literally kill elderly with them. It's sick. But when the police tell you to do something you do it or face consequences. And you hope they haven't had a bad day and the consequences don't consist of them murdering you or seriously harming you.

[kali o.]

Then dont be a dick to cops. That guy was a dick.

Let's be clear here -- being a dick or stupid or mentally ill isn't a crime. And even if it led to committing a crime, the use a force still requires a measure of justification. Tasers are potentially lethal force. There have been a number of deaths from tasers locally, I think 4-6 off the top of my head in recent years. That's just locally and reported. On a wider scale, I have no idea.

Here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv6jR-9Z4mw&noredirect=1

Now the guy in the video is clearly in need of being subdued. But the question needs to be, does the guy in the video need to be killed in order to subdue him.

[Zeus]

I woulda tasered his ass in the nutsack so he couldn't breed he was such a dick.......

[SineSwiper]

lol, you guys. Here is the squence of events:

- "step back"
- half second pause
- Taser

The guy is a moron but he wasn't a threat. I can see the humour in the video but are you *really* behind the use of force there? Do you really want police tasing the mentally ill and stupid of the world if they aren't a threat? It's not a far line from you getting tased because you don't like an officers attitude when you are pulled over. I don't want to be fucking tased. *shudders*

I've heard plenty of arguments around this, but the fact of the matter is that he's near a courtroom. You don't fuck around in court. No cameras. Period. Also, you don't mention "oh, I need to see the prosecutor" in the middle of a heated conversation like that. That's a huge red flag, too.

Tasers aren't used to put down threats. Tasers are used to ensure compliance. In any situation where you would use physical force, you use a taser instead. A taser is less dangerous. Yes, they have the potential to kill people in the wrong situations, but so does physical force. (Imagine a knife getting pulled in a physical confrontation.) This isn't a 91-year-old grandmother.

And this wasn't the only warning. He told him for 3 minutes to not bring the camera and to stand down. When the taser was pulled doesn't matter. The moron knew (or should have known) that getting tased was going to be the conclusion.

[kali o.]

I've heard plenty of arguments around this, but the fact of the matter is that he's near a courtroom. You don't fuck around in court. No cameras. Period. Also, you don't mention "oh, I need to see the prosecutor" in the middle of a heated conversation like that. That's a huge red flag, too.

Tasers aren't used to put down threats. Tasers are used to ensure compliance. In any situation where you would use physical force, you use a taser instead. A taser is less dangerous. Yes, they have the potential to kill people in the wrong situations, but so does physical force. (Imagine a knife getting pulled in a physical confrontation.) This isn't a 91-year-old grandmother.

And this wasn't the only warning. He told him for 3 minutes to not bring the camera and to stand down. When the taser was pulled doesn't matter. The moron knew (or should have known) that getting tased was going to be the conclusion.

Uhh, so which fucking psycho district policy on taser use are you quoting?

Tasers are an alternative to pepper spray and batons, to subdue violent or non-compliant suspects. All your comments are absurd. The guy didn't have a knife, as you are suggesting (unless you are just being obtuse). You don't fuck around in court because the judge will likely heap charges on you, not because you might get tased in the face. The guy was ultimately as much of a threat as a 91 year old grandmother. At that point in time, he was not a danger to the officers, he was not a danger to himself, he was not a danger to anyone around him.

You think lazy tasing is acceptable as a 1st response. You think it's safe. You think I am wrong. I think you are nuts.

I don't see any middleground.

[Shrinweck]

Agreeing with kali and also the guy barely gave any warning let alone three minutes of them. The camera had nothing to do with him getting tased, it was not getting out of the guy's face. From a law enforcement perspective I totally get what happened there. I probably would have been more insistent that the guy warn him once after the taser was brandished, but we can't see what security is seeing. Maybe this guy really did seem that threatening.

From how I see it, tasing is a second to last resort before actual violence (guns, batons) is used. It's a method to disarm and stun a person, not so much to ensure compliance but to ensure safe capture for both the criminal and law enforcement. This is the kind of response that should be made when there's an actual threat on law enforcement or the public, not as a quick fix for crazy or stupid. Violently aggressive behavior in law enforcement should be curtailed completely.. this kind of straddles that line, falling closer to unacceptable probably.

[SineSwiper]

Tasers are an alternative to pepper spray and batons, to subdue violent or non-compliant suspects. All your comments are absurd.

So, would you act this batshit angry if he pulled out pepper spray instead? After all, tasers are an alternative to pepper spray.

The guy didn't have a knife

How do you know?

You don't fuck around in court because the judge will likely heap charges on you, not because you might get tased in the face.

No, security in a courtroom has almost as many police as a jailhouse. There's a lot of potential criminals, people that hate each other, and people that hate lawyers/judges/prosecutors. If there's a rule about no cameras in a courtroom, then you fucking follow it. No question. Otherwise, you will be arrested and put in jail. Always. Period.

The guy was ultimately as much of a threat as a 91 year old grandmother. At that point in time, he was not a danger to the officers, he was not a danger to himself, he was not a danger to anyone around him.

Hindsight is 20/20. After all, he was "ultimately as much of a threat". Police don't deal in "maybes". For all they know, the guy could have been a terrorist trying to usurp the government. How the fuck do you respond to some jackass spouting off shit like "you have no authority over me" or "the law doesn't apply to me"? Given the number of militant scary insane splinter groups out there, why wouldn't you think that the guy is one of those nutjobs? I mean, just listen to the shit he spouts off.

You think lazy tasing is acceptable as a 1st response. You think it's safe. You think I am wrong. I think you are nuts.

First response? So, what was that 3 minutes worth of crazy all about? Again, you seem to think that the time he pulled out the taser mattered? And if we're talking about contact as a starting point, he pushed first trying to get through, he was shoved back, tried to go ahead, and then the cop pulled the taser. The guy continued to run his month, didn't stand back, and was tased. Sure, it was a little fast between the taser pull and firing, but the guy was probably a bit nervous as to his intentions.

But, that doesn't discount the fact that if you're going to try to walk into a courtroom with a camera and try to force your way through two cops through a security point, you are going to get tased. You are then going to get arrested and put in jail. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

From how I see it, tasing is a second to last resort before actual violence (guns, batons) is used. It's a method to disarm and stun a person, not so much to ensure compliance but to ensure safe capture for both the criminal and law enforcement. This is the kind of response that should be made when there's an actual threat on law enforcement or the public, not as a quick fix for crazy or stupid. Violently aggressive behavior in law enforcement should be curtailed completely.. this kind of straddles that line, falling closer to unacceptable probably.

It was used in place of actual violence. He was trying to push his way through. The next phase would have been violence. This DID curtail violent aggressive behavior in that it didn't turn into a wrestling match or beatdown or whatever.

At this point, the guy was using force to disobey an officer. Actual threat there. He was going to be arrested, so the taser was used to subdue him. If the sight of the taser scared him enough to shut up, he might have avoided arrested, but it was pretty obvious that he wanted to go full retard. So, zap, cuffs, and orange jumpsuit.

[Don]

The fact that when you use a taser on someone they might die from it is supposed to be weighted against the fact that the guy you're trying to tase might have a knife or a gun and would shoot you otherwise and kill you. Both are unlikely events but if you're the guy with the taser you probably would take the chance that the taser won't kill the guy as opposed to the guy don't have a weapon that can kill you because it's your life on the line. If it can be proven that the chance of killing someone with a taser is much higher than the chance that guy had a weapon you can say this isn't justified, but I doubt anyone can actually figure this out and as long as these two probabilities are even remotely close to each other you can bet the guy with the taser will take a chance that you don't die from the taser versus the chance he die from a weapon he doesn't know about.

Even if you know the guy absolutely does not have a weapon and say you're going to subdue him, how do you know if this guy isn't really stronger than you and break your arm when you try to subdue him? Stuff that's meant to break up riots like pepper spray/tear gas/whatever pretty much assumes the guys aren't armed. Otherwise you can just throw rocks at the guy with pepper spray and if that guy doesn't have a helmet and a shield you'll probably win with your rock compared to his pepper spray.

[Shrinweck]

He gets pushed away and remains 2-3 steps away when they tase him. There was no pushing his way through. He gets pushed away, doesn't back off, and then gets hit. The guy is already in the courthouse, where one can properly assume that he has been through a security checkpoint, so he has no weapon. There's at least three officers that probably weigh a good 5 or 6 of him. From the video, he never even touches them. He tries to squeeze between them and they cut him off. He gets pushed. He stands his ground. He gets tased. Stupid, but not deserving of what he got.

[kali o.]

I'm fairly neutral on this subject, but your reply is so chocked full of stupid, I am actually just angry with you.

So, would you act this batshit angry if he pulled out pepper spray instead? After all, tasers are an alternative to pepper spray.

It didn't require any of them. You missed the point.

How do you know?

Why would you even ask a retarded question like that? Every cop has to assume every interaction will include a concealed weapon?

No, security in a courtroom has almost as many police as a jailhouse. There's a lot of potential criminals, people that hate each other, and people that hate lawyers/judges/prosecutors. If there's a rule about no cameras in a courtroom, then you fucking follow it. No question. Otherwise, you will be arrested and put in jail. Always. Period.

Huh? What does that have to do with being tased in the face?

Hindsight is 20/20. After all, he was "ultimately as much of a threat". Police don't deal in "maybes". For all they know, the guy could have been a terrorist trying to usurp the government. How the fuck do you respond to some jackass spouting off shit like "you have no authority over me" or "the law doesn't apply to me"? Given the number of militant scary insane splinter groups out there, why wouldn't you think that the guy is one of those nutjobs? I mean, just listen to the shit he spouts off.

I already get your point of view, as moronic as I believe it to be. You are under the impression cops need to operate from the standpoint everyone is hiding a gun and probably a terrorist. Shoot first, think later. You've said it clearly. I get it.

First response? So, what was that 3 minutes worth of crazy all about? Again, you seem to think that the time he pulled out the taser mattered? And if we're talking about contact as a starting point, he pushed first trying to get through, he was shoved back, tried to go ahead, and then the cop pulled the taser. The guy continued to run his month, didn't stand back, and was tased. Sure, it was a little fast between the taser pull and firing, but the guy was probably a bit nervous as to his intentions.

I think your problem is you don't actually respond to what you read...you have your own thoughts and then try to jam them into a "conversation". What I said or hell, what actually happened in the video, doesn't really matter and you'll be damned if you let it interfere with you rant, lol. Anyway, no I don't think that. I think a taser requires a suspect to be a threat, either to others or themselves. Timing, place, details, etc are all not relevant. It's actually a fairly simple standpoint.

But, that doesn't discount the fact that if you're going to try to walk into a courtroom with a camera and try to force your way through two cops through a security point, you are going to get tased. You are then going to get arrested and put in jail. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

Not up here in. At least it would be a rarity. I'm willing to bet thanks to my work with PHS and people with addition and mental health issues, I've probably been in court more than you. But hey, good job on a go nowhere point neither of us will back up or test... If your point of view actually reflects current police behaviour and policy in the US...I...well I am not actually surprised. Explains that Walt Wawra nonsense I read. Sad state of affairs, hopefully the deaths are kept to a minimum.

[kali o.]

I know this is only semi-related, but I read this just a few minutes ago and it made me laugh (and sad). He cornered me and has a pen!!

[Eric]

Now if the cops had tasers that guy wouldn't be dead(maybe). >_<

[kali o.]

Now if the cops had tasers that guy wouldn't be dead(maybe). >_<

lol yup. Maybe. But if a properly trained cop was there, I'd imagine the fella with two limbs could have been disarmed of his deadly weapon of choice...!

Anyone else get a migraine figuring out how a one armed schizophrenic steers a deadly wheelchair and wields a mighty pen at the same time?

[SineSwiper]

I'm fairly neutral on this subject, but your reply is so chocked full of stupid, I am actually just angry with you.

No, you're not. If you were neutral on this subject, you wouldn't be all up in arms about the tasing. I mean, here -I- am trying to defend cops on tasers. What the fuck?

So, would you act this batshit angry if he pulled out pepper spray instead? After all, tasers are an alternative to pepper spray.

It didn't require any of them. You missed the point.

Okay, what did it require? Batons? Physical force? What comes next after shoving?

I already get your point of view, as moronic as I believe it to be. You are under the impression cops need to operate from the standpoint everyone is hiding a gun and probably a terrorist. Shoot first, think later. You've said it clearly. I get it.

No, not "everyone". Just people spouting off crazy shit about how the government works.

But, that doesn't discount the fact that if you're going to try to walk into a courtroom with a camera and try to force your way through two cops through a security point, you are going to get tased. You are then going to get arrested and put in jail. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

Not up here in. At least it would be a rarity. I'm willing to bet thanks to my work with PHS and people with addition and mental health issues, I've probably been in court more than you.

I've been to court quite a few times myself. And I'm sure neither of us has witnessed an incident like this one. That doesn't make you an expert on police Use of Force policies. (Not saying I'm one, either.)

But, you missed my point. Again. Frankly, I'm tired of arguing over this mess. Other people have already expressed my point, anyway.

[SineSwiper]

He gets pushed away and remains 2-3 steps away when they tase him. There was no pushing his way through. He gets pushed away, doesn't back off, and then gets hit. The guy is already in the courthouse, where one can properly assume that he has been through a security checkpoint, so he has no weapon. There's at least three officers that probably weigh a good 5 or 6 of him. From the video, he never even touches them. He tries to squeeze between them and they cut him off. He gets pushed. He stands his ground. He gets tased. Stupid, but not deserving of what he got.

I think he's -AT- the security checkpoint. They would have taken his camera otherwise.

[kali o.]

I've been to court quite a few times myself. And I'm sure neither of us has witnessed an incident like this one. That doesn't make you an expert on police Use of Force policies. (Not saying I'm one, either.)

But, you missed my point. Again. Frankly, I'm tired of arguing over this mess. Other people have already expressed my point, anyway.

Actually, I think this more than anything illustrates just how different we are. I *have* seen plenty of moments like this. Everyday I work at PHS, I witnessed naked people running down the street screaming. I'd get raged at everytime I'd have to question someone or hand out methadone. I've been threatened plenty, and watched officers threatened as well. I've found my share of dead bodies. I know how to deal with it to a point. When the situation escalates past a point I feel I am able to deal with it safely, I call the cops. TRAINED cops mind you. They don't come in, tasers or guns blazing (note: there is a difference between local police and RCMP). Use of force needs to be justified. An old schizophrenic addict (self medicating) freaking out is a far different situation than a local dealer robbing passed out addicts.

For your buddy there with confused ideas on the government and his rights, you'd be surprised how often that stems from mental health issues (even just extreme social isolation). Still, whether just stupid, mentally ill or a dick, use of force needs to be justified. That's what their training is supposed to be for...but if policy is "Taser first", that training amounts to shit. Any of us could be cops, in that case.

[Flip]

I sort of agree that they could have waited until the kid really tried harder to push himself past the officers blocking the hallway, but at the same time it was obvious that he didnt want to be compliant from the very beginning. He doesnt have a last name? Blatant lie. He was certainly disrupting the whole system, which is already stressful enough for ordinary people. If i was in court that day facing a crime, the last thing i want to see is some jackass messing things up. So on the other hand, i'm happy he got tased and removed.

I feel better about tasing this guy than i do someone who is obviously mentally ill and confused. This kid was just being a total fucktard on purpose.