The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • US army versus whatever

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #161712  by Don
 Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:52 pm
One thing I've noticed online is that people from United States seems to be the one who thinks the least of their own army. Despite the fact that the US army is possibly as strong as the rest of the world put together in terms of conventional warfare, you always have guys who claim that if Obama declared himself as Emperor of America, a few guys with their buddies will fight back with their guns against the US Army even though you've as good a chance as a teenager piloting a mech to stop the army.

In fact, there seems to be an extension of this being 'guns are the most powerful modern weapon known to man' that I tend to see in Japanese anything that forms the basis of such arguments and it even extends to fiction. If you see a guy dodge bullets clearly that means the army can't deal with such a guy. The funny thing is that even though an Agent in the Matrix can certainly dodge bullets, he can't dodge a cannon from a helicopter. Of course that's hardly surprising since a gun is a very weak weapon in the arsenal of the modern army, even in terms of conventional warfare. If you look at the US superheroes most of them are at DBZ or even more powerful levels, and in Hong Kong it's command to see people stomp the ground and crack the earth in half, so sure those guys probably don't fear the US army. But Japanese stuff? I bet you can take out Naruto with a machine gun if you shoot him first, which is probably why Naruto avoids any mention of modern technology. I wonder if it's the samurai culture, e.g. we got swords and we don't need guns, but that's more of a Chinese thing and in the Chinese stuff they specifically state at the beginning that these guys are all pretty much imprevious to military grade weapons thanks to their martial arts training.

I don't necessarily require realism, but sometimes it makes me wonder if these guys are using nerf bullets or whatever exotic material that somehow does minimal damage to human level opponents in their so called army. Most of the time there wouldn't even be the generic 'magic sauce' arguemnt. For example, you need AT Field to hit an Angel in Evangelion. That's why even though these giant robots would probably get destroyed by a helicopter in 10 seconds, they were still humanity's last hope because they're the only thing with an AT Field. Actually, the only fictional universe I can think of where the 'magic sauce' is convincing is Star Wars. There is no doubt the ability to destroy planets is insignificant compared to the power of the Force there.
 #161713  by Eric
 Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:06 pm
Pfft, United States of America, bow before the United Empire of Earth! Pew pew!
 #161723  by Don
 Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:21 am
At first I thought that's something from Starcraft (United Earth Directorate) until I looked it up. Come to think of it, outside of spaceflight, it sure looks like technology progresses backwards in the world of Starcraft as well for humans, though that's not a big deal since antimatter weapons on Dragoons barely does more damage than a rifle.
 #161729  by Don
 Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:35 am
There's definitely a United Empire of Earth out there.
 #161759  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:17 am
Its because these libertarians and conservatives are brainwashed with gun idolatry. The gun to them has become an idol, they think it holds great power. Considering most of these people are Christians, it is a little ironic: the bible preaches against all forms of violence, even if you are being attacked; the bible also preaches against idolatry it is one of the two commandments Jesus lists as being the most important, the other being "love thy neighbour" - a lot of gun owners hold guns because they "fear thy neighbour."

In reality, if 10,000,000 insane people took their guns and challenged the United States, the only thing holding the government back from annihilating the terrorist threat in under a day would be its moral code.
 #161760  by SineSwiper
 Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:02 am
Julius Seeker wrote:In reality, if 10,000,000 insane people took their guns and challenged the United States, the only thing holding the government back from annihilating the terrorist threat in under a day would be its moral code.
You can't actually believe that, can you? Especially in this day and age where a group of 100 terrorists can lay havok to Iraq, or 2 terrorists can bomb hundreds of people and cause a national tragedy.

That's the problem with this belief that the bigger the weapons, the better the army. Our big huge army was fucked over by guerilla tactics in Vietnam. Their force was much smaller than ours, and not nearly as technological. And we had no moral code there. We had no qualms with using chemical warfare or secretly dropping bombs on their neighboring country (you know, just because).

I'm not even going to respond to your generalizing bullshit equating all gun owners as Christian gun nuts.
 #161764  by Don
 Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:03 pm
Err, like Seeker said, the only thing stopping 'guys with guns' from being annihilated is the moral code. In Vietnam you can't just bomb everything to oblivion because it's a proxy war against the Soviet Union and you don't want to accidentally trigger a nuclear war even though the US is more than capable of bombing Vietnam to oblivion. The reason why terorrists are hard to track down is that they usually hide near civilians and you don't want to just bomb civilians to their doom either, which is why you got drones and stuff.

Seeker is indeed right about the gun idoltary. It's literally like 'OMG he can avoid a gun and a gun is the most powerful weapon an army can have". If the US army just take a break and locked up all the military grade weapons, the local population of USA would have a hard time repelling the Canadian army especially if they're only here to pillage stuff as opposed to actually trying to hold onto the land. The conventional firepower of the United States is widely to believe to be equal if not more powerful than the rest of the world put together. The reason why USA gets into these messy wars is that killing all your opponent is no longer consider a valid way to conduct warfare. Most of the USA wars looks more like nation-building exercises as opposed to a real war. If you simply burned everything down and go home, it's going to be awfully hard for the defender to make any kind of meaningful trades. Where does the guerilla fight when you just level or burn down everything?

It's not even about what kind of weaponry stance you believe. Like I said, the least you can do is like The Matrix. An Agent can dodge a handgun but cannot dodge the cannon from a helicopter, because the latter is a considerably more powerful weapon compared to the former. If you look at the Hong Kong stuff, they are pretty thorough about the guys with martial arts can outrun F22 or block missiles, which is why guns never threaten those guys and that's perfectly fine. I find that American audience on Japanese material makes a unique combination of 'guns = gods', as ironically American writes are used to all kinds of powerful weapons so your said fictional heroes will obviously be measured against a modern army, not just 'guys with guns', so you only see this combination with American audience (who worship guns) on Japanese writers who apparently think guns are the most powerful weapon ever invented as well.