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  • 88 Congressmen call on Bush for answers on secret Iraq plan

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #86437  by SineSwiper
 Mon May 09, 2005 3:38 am

 #86475  by Zeus
 Mon May 09, 2005 12:54 pm
Isn't this what Moore was basically talking about in Farenheit 9/11? This isn't news, just more evidence

 #86480  by Julius Seeker
 Mon May 09, 2005 1:24 pm
Yeah, this is what Moore has already said. People may claim that Moore is incorrect because of his liberal views. They are just too stubborn to actually admit that he was right.

 #86490  by Zeus
 Mon May 09, 2005 3:31 pm
It's more that they don't like his loud, in-your-face-truth style. They feel that it's "not right" to act that way and that he embarrassed people, puts them on the spot, or asks leading questions. It's also hard to face the harsh reality that you can't trust the people you vote for or those who are supposed to be looking out for you (ie. politicians and other public employees; the media as well). It's just the way it is, but not everyone likes to face that kind of truth

 #86512  by SineSwiper
 Tue May 10, 2005 2:52 am
I don't think it has to do with the "loud, in-your-face-truth style", but more to do with the "editing-mistakes-...-in-my-favor style".

 #86572  by Nev
 Tue May 10, 2005 1:38 pm
Just for informative purposes, while George W. Bush's biography is the first result for "miserable failure" on Google, Michael Moore's site is second.

 #86602  by Nev
 Tue May 10, 2005 5:04 pm
Well, I got a very confusing and possibly confused (in and of itself) response from Senator Feinstein (or someone on her staff) regarding the letter I sent her. Apparently she or her staffer thought it was about the Patriot II Act, which I had no idea even existed before this response.

This is an altered version of what I sent her - it's not exact because it's the last thing I saved after I sent it to my representative, who actually already signed the open letter by the Conyers coalition to Bush. The version I sent Feinstein yesterday was the same except that instead of thanking Rep. Watson for joining the coalition, I urged Sen. Feinstein to support it.
I wrote: Dear Rep. Watson,

I am a member of your Congressional district and am writing to you with the hope that something might be done about the abuses of power that seem to be occurring in the Bush administration's war on terror. I have heard of the coalition of congressmen and women that you have joined who are calling for greater accountability regarding the Iraqi war and its declaration. I want to express my support and my thanks and, in addition, urge you to call for greater investigation into the alleged Guantanamo Bay scandal.

I was informed today about Erik Saar, the former U.S. military translator who worked at Guantanamo Bay, and the book that he co-authored, called Inside the Wire, in which he details many abuses of power that allegedly occurred there. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/ ... 1602.shtml) Since the initial ratification of the Patriot Act, the willingness of some of those currently in power to dismiss the American tradition of dignity and human rights to all people, even to our military adversaries, has deeply troubled me. The events at Abu Ghraib and now this seem to make clear that some members of the military and those in the Bush administration who oversee it do not regard the humane treatment of those with whom we are at war as important or necessary. This disturbs me and saddens me as well.

As I said above, I also today became aware of the coalition you joined. (http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrat ... pr5605.pdf) I do not know if the allegations put forth in this document are true, but if so, I see the actions of President Bush and those members of his Cabinet who are involved as a serious deception of myself and the American people. Though I understand that there may be times and occasions which call for secrecy in the name of efficiency and security, if the facts contained in the British article are true, this particular instance I can see as nothing but a breach of trust. I can see no good reason for any leader to falsify reasons for going to war and am encouraged to hear of your support for this coalition.
The American ideal, as put forth in our Declaration of Independence, is that ALL men are created equal and with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I do not believe that those we are at war with should be denied the right to any of these, with the exception of some types of liberty, and to that extent, only so far as is necessary to ensure the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness that those in question with seek to remove or destroy. The alleged abuses at Guantanamo, if true, are in strong opposition to this principle and to the idea of the rights of prisoners of war in general. Our Declaration of Independence also states "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." If the allegations reported by the British press are true, the falsifications of President Bush and his Cabinet members regarding the Iraqi war violate this ideal as well. Without accurate information, I do not believe consent cannot be truly given in any circumstance. If President Bush was not sincere in his reasons for war with Iraq, his powers to declare this war could, by these principles, even be considered invalid.

Thank you for joining those calling for more accountability in Iraq. I urge you to do what you can to support further investigation into the alleged abuses at Guantanamo.

Sincerely,
Andrew Seidman
3615 Vinton Ave. #9
Los Angeles, CA 90034
And this is what I got back today:
Senator Dianne Feinstein (or her staff) wrote: May 10, 2005


Mr. Andrew Seidman
3615 Vinton Avenue, Apartment 9
Los Angeles, California 90034

Dear Mr. Seidman:

Thank you for writing to me about the so-called ADomestic
Security Enhancement Act of 2003,@ also known as APatriot II,@
after the USA Patriot Act of 2001. I appreciate receiving your
letter and I welcome the opportunity to respond.

According to the Justice Department, APatriot II@ is a draft
bill put together for internal discussion by department staff and is
not a final proposal from either the Attorney General or White
House. Please know that if and when the Department of Justice or
Administration present any proposed legislation to the Senate in
this area, I will consider it carefully. As a member of both the
Senate Judiciary Committee and Select Committee on Intelligence,
I am very aware of the importance of maintaining a proper balance
between government power and the rights of the American people.

Again, thank you so much for writing. If you should have
any other questions or comments, please feel free to visit my
website at http://feinstein.senate.gov, or contact my office in
Washington, D.C. at (202)224-3841.

Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator
Like I said, except for the change from urging to thanking, the letter I sent Rep. Watson was the same as the one I sent Sen. Feinstein. I looked up the Patriot II Act and it didn't seem to have *that* much to do with the specifics of what I was talking about, though the general subject matter is very connected. I think somebody up there has their wires crossed...maybe I will call her office today.