The Shrine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ButtVOM8hz4

This fight is sick. It just goes to show how good Pride's heavyweights actually are.

Sorry if you didn't know the result and this seems like a spoiler, but it is fairly apparent who is going to win from very early on =P

Wow, Cro Cop is huge, quick, and has some vicious strikes. Kinda surprised that the kick knocked out Silva, though, looked like a glancing blow kinda. Cro Cop worked him good in the first round.

Flip wrote:Wow, Cro Cop is huge, quick, and has some vicious strikes. Kinda surprised that the kick knocked out Silva, though, looked like a glancing blow kinda. Cro Cop worked him good in the first round.

Take a look at the gash on the side of Wanderlei's head though =)

I did notice that.

I was waiting for Goku & Vegeta to come out and go Super-Saiyan and wow the crowd, sadly it didn't happen.

Yes Eric, I was expecting a Goku vs Majin Vegeta throwdown too. Eh, maybe next time.

Nice fight. Once Silva got that gash, that was basically it. He probably never saw Cro Cop's kick coming.

BTW I can never tell how I'm supposed to understand how one group is better than the other. Everyone tells me Pride is way better than UFC, but I have no idea how to judge that.

In football terms, UFC = CFL, Pride = NFL.

Often UFCs top up and coming fighters (Such as Josh Barnett and Kevin Randleman) end up within Pride during their prime years. More skill is also demonstrated in Pride. UFC lacks a world class fighter in their heavyweight division, and their light heavyweight division only has two right now (Chuck and Babalu). Chuck, UFC's top guy, has fought within Pride before; he got defeated very convincingly by Pride's Rampage after 13 minutes (Rampage is their fourth best guy after Wanderlei, Shogun, and Arona). Chuck is a very good fighter, but there are many guys in Pride who are on or above his level within his division; he very likely would not be winning any belts.

UFC does have good fighters, just look in the lower weight classes for them. UFC's heavyweights look fairly lethargic and unskilled in the ring, whereas Pride's are quite fast and incredibly skilled.


An example of what a Pride card looks like in comparison to a UFC card.
The next Pride event looks like this:

Fedor vs. Coleman (Main Event)
Shogun vs. Randleman
and unnanounced fights which include fighters: Cro Cop, Fujita, Barnett, Phil Baroni, Kazuhiro Nakamura, Pawel Nastula, Vitor Belfort, and Mike Tyson.

All huge names, though some aren't MMA related like Tyson (boxing world heavyweight champion) and Nastula (multi world heavyweight Judo champion and olympic gold medallist).

The next UFC card is:

Matt Hughes vs. BJ Penn (main event)
David Loiseau vs. Mike Swick
With fights from Rashad Evans, Jens Pulver Joe Lauzaon, Melvin Guillard, Roger Huerta, Jason Dent, Gabrial Gonzaga, Mario Neto, Jorge Gurgel, Danny Abbadi, Tyson Griffin, and David Lee.

Matt Hughes, BJ Penn, and Jens Pulver are the only big names on the card, and they are all lightweights.

The Seeker wrote:In football terms, UFC = CFL, Pride = NFL.

For the heavies and lightheavies, yes, but not for the welterweights and middleweights. I think it's inaccurate to say "Pride is better than the UFC" for that reason. Oh, and Mike Tyson? Pride will have him fight because he's a big name, that's it. Tyson lost his last boxing match against a nobody. If they put Tyson in the ring with someone good at MMA, they would destroy him.

Anyway, thanks for the link (I'll watch it at home), but, yeah, I would have preferred to see it without knowing the outcome.

Ish, it's just like any sport. After you watch it enough or participate in it enough, you learn to tell the difference between mere competence and excellence.

Yeah, I am actually a huge fan of a lot of UFC's 170 division: Karo, Diego, GSP, and BJ. Though in open weight tournaments, the heavyweights tend to win most of the time. Not always though if anyone remembers Igor Vovchanchyn, Rickson, and Royce. Diego vs Karo at the last non-PPV UFC event was nuts, that was a great fight.

I've watched most of Pride and UFC...the whole "Pride is better" thing is a load of bullshit. And it's funny to see you rank a downhill fighter like Rampage as 4th Seek...and lets not forget, just how long ago did him and chuck fight?

kali o. wrote:I've watched most of Pride and UFC...the whole "Pride is better" thing is a load of bullshit. And it's funny to see you rank a downhill fighter like Rampage as 4th Seek...and lets not forget, just how long ago did him and chuck fight?

For heavyweights, I think the top Pride fighters (Fedor, Cro Cop and Josh Barnett) are clearly better.

kali o. wrote:I've watched most of Pride and UFC...the whole "Pride is better" thing is a load of bullshit. And it's funny to see you rank a downhill fighter like Rampage as 4th Seek...and lets not forget, just how long ago did him and chuck fight?

I don't rank Rampage 4th, Pride ranks him 4th, he listed 4th on their roster list, with Wanderlei listed first, Shogun listed second, and Arona listed third. In the last 4 years Rampage has only lost to Wanderlei and Shogun, Chuck has lost to both Rampage and Randy.

As for Pride being way ahead of UFC, that is just common sense, Pride has much better fighters overall, UFC has some good fighters, but Pride's are better, more popular, perform in front of much larger crowds, and are paid a LOT better; if they weren't the best,t hey wouldn't be making over 10 times as much as UFC fighters do.

As for an example of the difference in pay:

UFC 58 Pay Scale:
courtousy of NSAC:


* George St Pierre - $48,000
* Rich Franklin - $34,000
* Nathan Marquart - $30,000
* B.J. Penn - $25,000
* Mike Swick - $10,000
* Tom Murphy - $10,000
* David Loiseau - $9,000
* Spencer Fisher - $8,000
* Yves Edwards - $8,000
* Rob McDonald - $5,000
* Joe Doerkson - $5,000
* Josh Lambert - $4,000
* Sam Stout - $4,000
* Mark Hominick - $4,000
* Icho Laurenas - $3,000
* Seve Vigneault - $2,000

Total = $209,000

UFC 58 had 8,183 paid attendees for a live gate of $1,758,450


Yoshida was paid 4 million dollars for his fight last year against Ogawa at Pride Shockwave; or 20 times higher than UFC 58's entire payout. Also, K1 has offered Rickson 3 million to fight Sakuraba.

Kupek wrote: For heavyweights, I think the top Pride fighters (Fedor, Cro Cop and Josh Barnett) are clearly better.

Oh, I think so too, happens to be a lull in that division. I think the general statement "Pride is better" (and it's fanboys) is highly flawed and stupid.

As for Seeker, I agree UFC underpays their fighters and they are pretty huge thieves (imo, but the fact that you think it makes money a fighter "better" is rather funny). Not sure what that had to do with me taking your "Rampage took Chuck" as BS though...they are each totally different fighters now and how long ago was that?

kali o. wrote: As for Seeker, I agree UFC underpays their fighters and they are pretty huge thieves (imo, but the fact that you think it makes money a fighter "better" is rather funny). Not sure what that had to do with me taking your "Rampage took Chuck" as BS though...they are each totally different fighters now and how long ago was that?

3 years, and Chuck is currently a relatively one dimensional kickboxer who can sprawl well and hit hard, the same as he was 6 years ago. Rampage's last two fights were dissapointments, he showed a lower level of aggression than is normal for him, but Rampage up until his last two fights hasn't really fought very differently than what we have seen; maybe Wanderlei smacked him too hard in their last fight. Bottom line is, UFC's roster does not stand up to Pride's, if UFC does get someone worth it, they usually end up in Pride.

I noticed that the Cro Cop Wanderlei Silva fight has received an insane number of hits, much more than is usual for even popular videos on Youtube.

Here is his fight vs. Barnett. Now note that Barnett is STRONG and a better wrestler than Randy Couture was at the height of his UFC career (he demolished Randy, who was at the time seen as the best in the company), watch how easily Cro cop throws off his takedown attempts. Cro Cop is a tank. As for UFC heavyweights, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvSuHIkQJTE


One thing that all other organizations lack is this guy: Fedor Emelianenko, the best have all come forth, and he has defeated all of them:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/se ... o?from=rss

Heh, I am glad they put the clips from his fight vs. Ogawa in there =)

Fedor is on a completely different level than anyone currently existing though. That is why they call him the Cyborg.