The Shrine

Ok, PC question for some of you guys:

I just replaced my mobo/CPU cuz my old one started flaking out. I'm now running an Intel P4 3.2ghz.

I'd like to do a completely fresh install of Windows XP to go with my new hardware, but every time I load the XP setup and it gets to the point where I can delete partitions, my system reboots.

My first thought is that maybe I need a more powerful power supply. I'm running a 400 watt and maybe I need something around a 500 watt for this CPU. But my current version of XP loads fine as I am writing this on it at the moment.

The only other thing I can think of is that there is something going on with my DVD Burner that is causing this to happen.

Any ideas?

Did you upgrade the memory? How fast is the RAM you have? Chances are if you moved from an AMD system (older) to a newer intel mainboard your memory isn't quite compatible. 400 watts is plenty unless you are running like 6 hard drives and 2 CD-Rom's and two vid cards SLI'ed or Crossfired (nVidia or DAAMIT[ATI/AMD]).

I'm not 100% on any of this, full system specs current and past would help a lot more in diagnosing the issue. That and me not being inhebriated and horney.

I dunno a lot of tech stuff, but I have helped build/burn-in PCs before.
You can post (boot up wise I mean) and are apparently using the box now, so RAM isn't likely. I'd highly doubt it's the power supply (even for a reboot issue) as you can load up to desktop fine, but you never know. You can always try swapping the connections as often the power supply is only faulty from one output (HDD/DVD).

Test out your CD/DVD drive but that's not a likely culprit. I think SiSoft has Sandra that has a decent testing program.

Flash the bios if you were screwing with anything there (hell, people get RMA'd and 2nd hand MBs all the time, so you never know).

Most likely culprit - your harddrive. You can always buy a secondary as they are cheap and well-worth it even if it turns out not to be the issue.

I don't think it's the DVD burner, and if it were the power supply you'd have bigger problems. To test the latter you can unplug anything you don't need to install Windows (like any other PCI cards or extra optical drives).

Other than that Kali might be right, hard drive sounds flaky. You can either try installing Windows on another hard drive with that computer, or try formatting that hard drive on another computer.

Lox wrote:Ok, PC question for some of you guys:

I just replaced my mobo/CPU cuz my old one started flaking out. I'm now running an Intel P4 3.2ghz.

I'd like to do a completely fresh install of Windows XP to go with my new hardware, but every time I load the XP setup and it gets to the point where I can delete partitions, my system reboots.

My first thought is that maybe I need a more powerful power supply. I'm running a 400 watt and maybe I need something around a 500 watt for this CPU. But my current version of XP loads fine as I am writing this on it at the moment.

The only other thing I can think of is that there is something going on with my DVD Burner that is causing this to happen.

Any ideas?

You may also want to check your connections from the motherboard to the drive. Try a different cable first to see if that's what is causing it to stop when it tries to access the drive to remove the partition. If that doesn't do it, then it does sound like a bad HD.

go download a bootable version of the program metext x86. Toss it on a CD. Boot to it and let it do it's thing. If you get a bunch of errors, it's your RAM. Having random reboots at certain times during an installation is a pretty good indication of bad memory. Not always the ase, but definitely the most common.

The other thing I can suggest is if you have multiple sticks of RAM, try taking one out for the windows installation.

And the next would be flash the BIOS. I always do this before I mess around with new parts and OS installations.

Thanks, guys.

I don't think it's the RAM as it can boot to my current Windows just fine. I made sure that the RAM I am using is compatible with both mobo's when I bought it from NewEgg. I can always try pulling out one stick or putting in older RAM I have, if needs be. I'd hate for it to be th RAM though.

I don't think it's the HD because I hooked up a secondary drive as Primary Master and removed the original Primary Master completely, and the same thing happened. I also replaced the IDE cables with new ones and got the same thing.

I'll run through some of the things you guys said and see if I can figure it out.

Just because you can boot to windows in now way rules out a RAM issue.

I would pull out anything nonessential, even use onboard video if you arent already. Try again, and see if it goes all the way through. I dont know if you said how much ram you have now, but if possible take out some of the ram too...like everyone else said, it could very well be a ram problem.

Well, I pulled out the RAM I was using and put in an totally different stick of RAM. The exact same thing happened. I wish I had tried this with my old mobo and CPU to see what it did. I will try pulling out all non-essential hardware to see what happens next. Worst case, I pull out this mobo/CPU, put the other one back in and try to reinstall Windows and see what happens.

One thing I noticed is that if I try to load Windows with my 2 harddrives on the same IDE, the PC will reboot while Windows is loading. If I unplug the slave, it loads fine. I'm going to try putting them on seperate IDE cables later today to see if that fixes that issue.

Oracle, I'm going to try your metext x86 program to see if that will ID the issue.

lol Im a moron.

It's memtest x86

Go here

http://www.memtest.org/#downiso

and download this

http://www.memtest.org/download/1.70/me ... 70.iso.zip

Yeah, I already figured out that you're a moron. Of course the only reason I did was because the gloriousness that is Google automatically fixed it for me. hahaha

Before I left for work I started up the memory test. It took about 30 minutes to complete Test #1. I don't think there were any errors at that time. I'll check it when I get home. Thanks for the link. It's a cool little app.

30 minutes for test #1? Or for cycle #1 (which would be all 8 or 9 tests)?

If it took 30 minutes for test #1 (the fastest test), there is a problem :p

Yeah, I meant Cycle #1.

It's like the level/stage thing in video games. I never use the right word for the right thing!

Man, just install the thing and quit your bitching.

Well, I checked the results for the MemTest. It had been running for 9 hours when I got home (does it just restart the test cycle over and over again?) and there were no errors displayed. So the memory is good according to that. Would this also imply that the memory is 100% compatible with this mobo or is there another way to verify that. It is according to crucial's site, but I suppose it's not a good idea to assume they're right.

I am going to try flashing the BIOS with the new firmware when I get home to see if that fixes the issue.

*sigh*

I would have taken the board, cpu, and harddrive back days ago. Not a good feeling coming from that combination. I've only built 2 comp (one for me, one for dad) and things were so easy that this kind of setback would make me very weary, even if it suddenly started working.

Your memory seems fine. The place I would check for memory compatibility is on the motherboard manufacturer's website. Probably in the same general area that you would find the BIOS updates.

Well, I flashed the BIOS successfully, pulled out the video and sound cards. Nothing changed. It has to be a memory compatibility issue. That's all I can figure since it does the same thing with 2 different harddrives. I'm going to do what Flip said and return the pieces of junk to new egg. They probably won't let me return the CPU, so I'll just keep it for a year from now when I do the big upgrade or sell it on ebay or something.

I have some time so I might contact ECS and see what they say too.

what RAM and Mobo you using? (make, model #, etc)

RAM = Crucial Ballistic Tracer 512MB x2 (http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs ... 15A5CA7304)

Mobo = ECS 661FX-M7 (1.1) LGA 775 SiS 661FX Micro ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813135171)

From what I can find on the ECS site, your mobo is compatible with:

Support DDR400/333/266 DDR SDRAM

(found at http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Produc ... =1&LanID=9)

The RAM you bought is DDR500. I know that the Crucial site says you can use PC4000 (DDR500) memory, however. DDR is supposed to be backwards compatible, but this could be a possible issue. It pretty much depends on how your motherboard is choosing the run the RAM. It will either run it to match the system's FSB (which would be DDR400 speeds) or it will run it at the memory's native speed (DDR500). I've never worked on an ECS board, so I'm not too sure how it handles it. If it's trying to force it to run at DDR500 speeds, that could be the issue.

The Windows XP you have been trying to install on this computer. Is the CD an SP2 CD, or SP1 and below?

That's a good point that had actually popped into my head, but I dismissed it because I thought it was supposed to run at the slower speed.

I actually did open a case with ECS Support explaining the issue and I listed all of my components. Maybe they can explain how the board is running.

The XP install does not have SP2 built in. I hope that's not the issue though I could easily get an MSDN copy of the newest XP and try installing that from a CD to see what happens.

I just know that there are "pre-setup" options for windows XP and that they can differ from CD release to CD release. You would select these options when it says "press f6 to install raid controller" when the blue screen first pops up. You can press other F-keys at this point (maybe just F5, that's the only other one I've used).

Just something I was curious about, I'll look into seeing if that could be a possible issue.

I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks for the tip.

Do you think it could be an overheating issue? I installed a monitor for the CPU temp and at certain points it is hitting around 60-75 degrees Celsius. What I've been reading says that the system will just slow down when this happens, but could it also cause the system to reboot?

Your temp could indeed be an issue. What is the model number of your processor? I know the new Intel's are not rated to run above 60C. Maybe go out and buy some thermal paste and remount your heatsink? Or buy a new heatsink assembly all together (they are cheap, $15-30 USD should do it).

An overheating CPU will cause your system to hang, reboot, or turn off completely.

The model # is BX80547PG3200EK.

It's a P4 541 Prescott 3.2GHz.

I'm thinking the fan that came with it is even crappier than usual or something. I am probably going to look for a whole new heatsink assembly and try that. Thanks for the advice. If this solves the issue I will let you know.

I actually got a response back from the ECS Support just now and they mentioned the CPU temp also.

from http://processorfinder.intel.com/detail ... spec=sl9c6

Thermal spec on your processor is 67.7C. I still don't recommend letting it run at anywhere near that, however.

For example, my Intel E6400 is spec'd at around 61.2C, but I have it running idle 32-36C, load 42-54C.

Lox wrote:I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks for the tip.

Do you think it could be an overheating issue? I installed a monitor for the CPU temp and at certain points it is hitting around 60-75 degrees Celsius. What I've been reading says that the system will just slow down when this happens, but could it also cause the system to reboot?

It's running hot and definately a problem - however, the likelihood of that being the cause of your original installation problems is slim-to-none (you reboot at a specific point at install but have no issues when the CPU is loaded running your other desktop).

Not that I have an answer for you if you followed everything in this post...but still. Keep replacing parts till it works

kali o. wrote:It's running hot and definately a problem - however, the likelihood of that being the cause of your original installation problems is slim-to-none (you reboot at a specific point at install but have no issues when the CPU is loaded running your other desktop).

Not that I have an answer for you if you followed everything in this post...but still. Keep replacing parts till it works

Don't say that!!!

Actually, I do have issues running the original Windows install now. I wasn't doing much with it when I originally posted my problem. For instance, this morning, it rebooted about 15 minutes after loading Windows. It looked like CPU usage went up pretty high right before it did so, which made me think of the temp being the cause. I wonder if the install is causing the CPU to do a lot of work since it's basically loading files from the CD to begin setup and that's causing an overheating issue.

I might have to do what you said and just swap out the memory with something that has been tested by ECS and see what happens.

There's only one tool to solve all your computer problems: a sledgehammer. Used to its full capacity, it eliminates all problems stemming from the particular computer/device :-)

I've seriously considered using that tool, Zeus. That's a last resort.

Lox wrote:
Don't say that!!!

Actually, I do have issues running the original Windows install now. I wasn't doing much with it when I originally posted my problem. For instance, this morning, it rebooted about 15 minutes after loading Windows. It looked like CPU usage went up pretty high right before it did so, which made me think of the temp being the cause. I wonder if the install is causing the CPU to do a lot of work since it's basically loading files from the CD to begin setup and that's causing an overheating issue.

I might have to do what you said and just swap out the memory with something that has been tested by ECS and see what happens.

Ah that's different. Well, statistically from RMA'd stuff I've seen, your problem goes Power Supply, Memory, Mobo, CPU fan...but if it's running hot, I guess the fan jumps up the list.

I haven't seen new pentiums, but I'm pretty sure retail processors from pentium come all pre-done (OEMs didn't)...I only ask in the unlikely event you didn't add the thermal paste when mounting. Hey, you never know, simplest explainations first right

Do they even use that thermal goo anymore? Been so long since I built a PC....

Anyway, good luck.

A friend and I pulled the heatsink/fan off of the CPU last night. There was thermal paste already on the bottom of the heatsink so I didn't worry about it. Well, practically none of it was actually touching the CPU itself, which might explain the incredibly high temps. There was maybe 10% of it actually on the chip. We checked the chip and the mobo for burn marks and there weren't any, so hopefully I didn't damage it.

I showed him the reboot issue during XP install. As soon as it rebooted, we checked the temp in the BIOS - 78 degrees C. So I'm going to go get some good thermal paste today and put that on there. I figure it's a cheap investment that might solve the issue. I really hope it does.

I appreciate the help, Oracle and Kali (and everyone else who has been offering advice). I'm going nuts trying to get this thing working.

Lox wrote:A friend and I pulled the heatsink/fan off of the CPU last night. There was thermal paste already on the bottom of the heatsink so I didn't worry about it. Well, practically none of it was actually touching the CPU itself, which might explain the incredibly high temps. There was maybe 10% of it actually on the chip. We checked the chip and the mobo for burn marks and there weren't any, so hopefully I didn't damage it.

I showed him the reboot issue during XP install. As soon as it rebooted, we checked the temp in the BIOS - 78 degrees C. So I'm going to go get some good thermal paste today and put that on there. I figure it's a cheap investment that might solve the issue. I really hope it does.

I appreciate the help, Oracle and Kali (and everyone else who has been offering advice). I'm going nuts trying to get this thing working.

I'd get something to remove the exsiting thermal paste from the heatsink and the top of the processor before applying any other grease to it. I recommend Artic Silver 5 for the reason being that it is rated for processors like yours. It is detrimental that you choose the correct grease for your processor. For example, I just had to replace a processor in an IBM blade and IBM sent 1) the wrong part but 2) the wrong thermal paste with the part. If you get white grease, that's not going to be good enough for your processor. You need something with silver in it to cool that heat spreader down. I pray there aren't any scoring marks or else you're pretty much fucked as that is an indication that the heat was a bit too much for the silicon. Also, follow the instructions on Artic Silver's website on how to apply the paste. Too much or too little paste can have adverse effects, similar to the ones you are experiencing right now.

Yeah, I went ahead and got some silver paste. I will definitely be cleaning the existing stuff off of the CPU and heatsink. I figure it'll just be cleaner and more likely to work that way.

We did check for burn marks and we didn't see any, so I think it should be ok.

Ok, I went ahead and after 2 attempts, was able to correctly apply the silver thermal paste. I got the CPU temp while XP was running to around 40 degrees C. Intel says this chip shouldn't run hotter than 60 C.

I then began the XP reinstall and so far it has gotten A LOT farther than it did previously. Normally it would reboot before I could even remove the current partition. I am currently formatting my harddrive to begin the install. I don't want to count my chickens before they are hatched, but it would appear that the issue was the CPU temp.

Thanks to everyone who offered their insights. I definitely came to this train of thought from the posts here so you guys saved my PC.