The Shrine

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=7975

Following his rematch decision victory over Sakuraba. The steroid levels are reportedly off the charts. He was significantly heavier in his fight vs. Sakuraba than he was in his fight vs Matt Hughes last year.

In the wake of Royce Gracie's (Pictures) positive test for steroids, the California State Athletic Commission released details Monday that the Brazilian mixed martial arts icon showed such elevated levels of Nandrolone, a common anabolic steroid, that it could not be registered by the testing lab.

According to the CSAC, a normal person could potentially produce 2 ng/mL of Nandrolone, while an athlete following "rigorous physical exercise" could have a level of 6 ng/mL.

Both "A" and "B" samples provided by Gracie, said the CSAC, "had a level of over 50 ng/mL and we were informed that the level itself was so elevated that it would not register on the laboratory's calibrator."

Gracie, currently on vacation in Spain, told Sherdog.com last week that he has never taken steroids, and that he would file for an appeal.

Whoa. That would be big, right? Isn't he one of the guys that practically invented MMA as we currently know it?

We have enough steroids in wrestling (practically a requirement). We really don't need that shit in MMAs.

Nev wrote:Whoa. That would be big, right? Isn't he one of the guys that practically invented MMA as we currently know it?

Him and his brother put it on the map in North America. Actually, back in the days of Royce, MMA wasn't using mixed styles of martial arts, it was different forms of martial arts up against each other. Royce represented Gracie Jiujitsu, which no one knew much about, and so he won everything. UFC began as an ad for Gracie Jiujitsu =P

He comes from a family of legends, with a lot of honour.

Steroids will be a problem in almost every sport. The only solution is to make the risks greater than the reward, which they are trying to do.

Kupek wrote:Steroids will be a problem in almost every sport. The only solution is to make the risks greater than the reward, which they are trying to do.

How?

How about permament banning from the sport you are cheating at?

Granted, some people would have already made their millions by the time they get caught, but i agree with Kup that there needs to be a severe penalty to prevent people from trying.

I don't really have a problem with steroid use, myself. It can be dangerous, but IMO the real problem has more to do with our cultural attitudes surrounding it, and/or its use by teenagers who don't have the maturity to properly understand the risks. I understand that moderate steroid use in and of itself by grown adults does not tend towards extreme danger, though more extreme use of them certainly does.

Now, when star athletes like Royce get caught with them, I would guess more teens tend to try to use, but I'm not going to judge him personally on it. How to deal effectively with teenage steroid use is a different, deeper discussion. But given Royce Gracie's level of fame, there could be a pretty big scandal about this. That's all I meant.

Flip wrote:How about permament banning from the sport you are cheating at?

I think this is a very all-or-nothing attitude. Besides which, these days, with the line between "steroids" and "performance supplements" practically nonexistent, you'd have to ban half the athletes working...

The problem with steroids is that it is a performance enhancer. It gives an unfair advantage. Steroids aren't the only banned substance in sports, and blood doping to increase red-cell count is also banned.

Zeus wrote:How?

In MMA, if you fail the drug test your license is suspended and often the purse is withheld. Getting caught means you can't make money.

The Seeker wrote:The problem with steroids is that it is a performance enhancer. It gives an unfair advantage. Steroids aren't the only banned substance in sports, and blood doping to increase red-cell count is also banned.

What about sex? There's articles about how Olympic athletes encourage sex before their event as a way to increase red blood cells.

Kupek wrote:Steroids will be a problem in almost every sport. The only solution is to make the risks greater than the reward, which they are trying to do.

Impossible. Most of these guys would be pumping gas if it weren't for whatever sport they're playing. With steroids/epo/hgh/etc they have a shot at millions.

Not true, Ish. Royce Gracie's father invented modern Brazilian ju-jitsu, as I understand it. Hard to see him or his brother at the pump...

Nev wrote:Not true, Ish. Royce Gracie's father invented modern Brazilian ju-jitsu, as I understand it. Hard to see him or his brother at the pump...

I did say "most"...

Kupek wrote:

Zeus wrote:How?

In MMA, if you fail the drug test your license is suspended and often the purse is withheld. Getting caught means you can't make money.

How long is the suspension?

Depends on the state. <a href="http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=7893">Johnnie Morton</a> was placed on an indefinite suspension in Calfiornia, and his license might be revoked - which would ban him from fighting in California.

Ish, you're presenting a false dichotomy. It's not an issue of use steroids or pump gas. I agree it's practically impossible to completely eliminate all steroid use, but the most effective thing to do is make the risk of getting caught - and not being able to make any money - so high that it's not worth it. Professional athletes have something to lose. You're presenting it as if they don't.

If it's severe enough, yeah, it'll prevent them. If they can risk losing their licence to fight by being caught once, it's a great deterrent. But they have to make an example out of people first.

The major team sports aren't severe enough to deter anything, that's why you see it being used regularly (I'd like to think that it really has no effect in hockey and it's not used, but that would be naive I think). If the MMA fighters are getting that kind of penalty from the state regulators, you'll need extend that to all athletes to a) be fair and b) actually have an effect across all sports.

Kupek wrote: Ish, you're presenting a false dichotomy. It's not an issue of use steroids or pump gas.

Extreme? Perhaps for many (though certainly not all).

False? Hardly. I don't think I'd be stepping out on any limbs saying that almost none of them would be earning 7+ figure incomes doing something else.

Kupek wrote: I agree it's practically impossible to completely eliminate all steroid use, but the most effective thing to do is make the risk of getting caught - and not being able to make any money - so high that it's not worth it. Professional athletes have something to lose. You're presenting it as if they don't.

To ignore that they also have something to <i>gain</i> would be equally short sighted. But I hear you. They certainly have something to lose. It's simple risk analysis. If performance enhancing drugs is the difference between a million dollar per year job vs a $50K/year job (and that's being very generous for most athletes, especially at their young ages), they'll take the risk.

Short of dragging cheaters out into the streets and shooting them, I don't think there's any <i>rule</i> they can make to keep people from trying to get an edge. Also rules are only as good as your ability to enforce them. The best they can do is create tests that cover all banned substances 100% of the time. And this is virtually impossible too.