Christian mythology

[Chris]

http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp

Here is your Christmas Present

Repent Sinner

[SineSwiper]

Allah worships the Moon God

Heh, it's funny because I can prove the same thing with Christianity. Christmas is pagan. Easter is pagan. The whole religion centers around stealing other pagan forms of worship and declaring it as being a part of Christianity all along.

Adapted for black audiences.

I love that line. Chick, you are a bigot beyond measure. Jesus must be proud of you!

[Tessian]

Hahaha that was pretty funny-- I love how easily the guy was swayed from his closely held beliefs and that no one else in the mosque joined in to stone the non believer or at least throw his stupid ass out

[Julius Seeker]

Allah worships the Moon God

Heh, it's funny because I can prove the same thing with Christianity. Christmas is pagan. Easter is pagan. The whole religion centers around stealing other pagan forms of worship and declaring it as being a part of Christianity all along.

Adapted for black audiences.

I love that line. Chick, you are a bigot beyond measure. Jesus must be proud of you!

I would say that Christianity is more or less the flag of what the Romans decided to unify their religions under following the Crisis of the Third Century. Judaism and Christianity both are responsible for a lot of plagiarism, but this is true of just about every major religion that has ever existed.

Paul's representation of Jesus is based mostly on Mithras; Paul is from Tarsus, the origin of the Mysteries of Mithras; so that would be his major influence on how to depict Jesus; and yes, it was not rare for Romans to give important persons divine attributes. Many Emperors had been deified, for example. It was also not rare for the fusion of divinities; such as how Mithras and other Sun Gods became Sol Invictus in the third century.

Christmas is not Jesus's birthday, it is Mithras's birthday. Sunday was a day established for Sol Invictus by Constantine, and since Constantine led both Christianity and Sol Invictus, he made this the day off for Christians as well.

In addition, Constantine also made most books and writings of Christianity (hundreds of them) heresy and possession of them could be punished by death, and they were all mostly destroyed; a few bits and pieces survive (such as the Gnostic Gospels and writings of Arius). Constantine was essentially fusing Christianity and Sol Invictus. The early Catholic Church (established by Constantine) and its traditions are very much descended from the Cult of Sol Invictus, not Judaism. Though Judaism itself can be viewed as a branch of Zoroastrianism (I should note, Mithras = Messiah = Maitreya. Mithras was the Saviour of Mankind, banisher of darkness, and the light of goodness, messenger of God.)

So Allah is a Moon God? Similarly you could call Jesus a Sun God. The Jewish God Ahura Mazda, but the Christian God? He is depicted as an old man in a Toga, wearing sandles, with a white beard, there is no mistaking him; and 2000 years ago the same picture would be impossible to mistake, only they called him Jupiter; a Sky God.

[Lox]

Paul's representation of Jesus is based mostly on Mithras; Paul is from Tarsus, the origin of the Mysteries of Mithras; so that would be his major influence on how to depict Jesus; and yes, it was not rare for Romans to give important persons divine attributes. Many Emperors had been deified, for example. It was also not rare for the fusion of divinities; such as how Mithras and other Sun Gods became Sol Invictus in the third century.

Sorry, Seek, but there's no undeniable evidence that Paul based Jesus on Mithras. There are those who believe this to be the case, but it's far from fact. From what I've read, it's widely believed to be incorrect actually.

Quote from Ronald Nash who wrote The Gospel and the Greeks says this:
"Allegations of an early Christian dependence on Mithraism have been rejected on many grounds. Mithraism had no concept of the death and resurrection of its god and no place for any concept of rebirth - at least during its early stages.... During the early stages of the cult, the notion of rebirth would have been foreign to its basic outlook.... Moreover, Mithraism was basically a military cult. Therefore, one must be skeptical about suggestions that it appealed to nonmilitary people like the early Christians."

Look here if you want more info (particularly part C in the first section): http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/eas ... /yama.html or look up any of the many articles citing Nash and you'll see that this argument is very weak.

Were certain dates and times absorbed into Christianity? Yes. Everyone knows that Christ wasn't really born on 12/25. But I don't think you'll find any intelligent Christians who would argue that the actual date matters anyway. Just needed to clarify for those who think that what you're saying is based on total fact as opposed to simply ideas.

[Julius Seeker]

Paul's representation of Jesus is based mostly on Mithras; Paul is from Tarsus, the origin of the Mysteries of Mithras; so that would be his major influence on how to depict Jesus; and yes, it was not rare for Romans to give important persons divine attributes. Many Emperors had been deified, for example. It was also not rare for the fusion of divinities; such as how Mithras and other Sun Gods became Sol Invictus in the third century.

Sorry, Seek, but there's no undeniable evidence that Paul based Jesus on Mithras. There are those who believe this to be the case, but it's far from fact. From what I've read, it's widely believed to be incorrect actually.

Quote from Ronald Nash who wrote The Gospel and the Greeks says this:
"Allegations of an early Christian dependence on Mithraism have been rejected on many grounds. Mithraism had no concept of the death and resurrection of its god and no place for any concept of rebirth - at least during its early stages.... During the early stages of the cult, the notion of rebirth would have been foreign to its basic outlook.... Moreover, Mithraism was basically a military cult. Therefore, one must be skeptical about suggestions that it appealed to nonmilitary people like the early Christians."

Look here if you want more info (particularly part C in the first section): http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/eas ... /yama.html or look up any of the many articles citing Nash and you'll see that this argument is very weak.

Were certain dates and times absorbed into Christianity? Yes. Everyone knows that Christ wasn't really born on 12/25. But I don't think you'll find any intelligent Christians who would argue that the actual date matters anyway. Just needed to clarify for those who think that what you're saying is based on total fact as opposed to simply ideas.

I would highly question Nash, was not he an envagelistic right winged politician?

To counter his points,

1) Mithaism was not a military cult, it became popular with the military during the reign of Aurelian (in the 270's) until Constantine.

2) Mithraism DID in fact have a death and rebirth story, not only that but Mithras was crucified, descended to hell, and ressurected 3 days later and ascended to heaven. Mithraism existed in Rome before the birth of Christ; Pompey, the adversary of Julius Caesar, belonged to the faith (according to Plutarch). In addition the Julii belonged as well (there have been found paintings in the tomb of the Julii). The earliest temple of Mithras in Rome dates back to the middle of the 1st century BC, a long while before Chistianity reached there.

Though Mithraic traditions are not exclusive to Mithraism and Christianity, there are plenty of other religions dating back thousands of years that share the same stories. A note of interest is that other Mystery religions shared many of the same stories. Christianity and its traditions are not original, neither is Judaism (worship of Mithras in the form of Mithra and Mitra predated Judaism), and neither are any other religions; they all came from something else. It is just the post-Theodosian tradition of intolerance which doesn't allow people of other faiths to recognize this.

I have spent most of my life reading through the mythologies of Indo-European and Egyptian religions, and I have taken a very strong interest in Christianity, Islam, and other current religions as well; including the works of authors who have pointed out the vast similarities and the handing down of tradition. It's easy to see that there is a lot more adoption going on between the relious traditions of the ages than is preached. With Mithra/Mithras, there are dozens of identical traits; when I say identical, I mean identrical (such as Mithras being the son of God and incarnation of God at the same time).

Of course, there is never going to be a common concensus on this. What I generally subscribe to is that Christianity is the result of an amalgamation of various faiths. The argument of whether Jesus lived or not is not relevant to me (I don't care, I prefer the idea that he did exist though, as I am quite a fan), and that argument often comes into it, and it usually annoys me the way that some atheist pushers present it, but at the same time stabs my interest when presented by a more agonstic source. The most important point in the history of Christianity and the Roman Imperial religions as a whole came during the 4th century (which is my favourite century of history) particularly with Constantine who is amongst my very favourite historical figures, and in my opinion, the most powerful and influential figure in history.

Of course, this period of history interests me because I am also a very large fan of the history that follows, particularly after the "fall" of Rome (I don't subscribe to the idea that the Western Roman Empire fell in 476 as there was still an Emperor ruling over the region in Constantinople, and Roman culture -as it existed in the time of Caesar- didn't die out until the 7th century; and many aspects of Roman culture from the 4th century survived through the ages to this day, Christianity being a major part of that).

So yeah, I wanted to talk about the topic of Allah and the Moon God as well because that is something that also interests me, but I don't think anyone else here cares about Islam.

[SineSwiper]

Were certain dates and times absorbed into Christianity? Yes. Everyone knows that Christ wasn't really born on 12/25. But I don't think you'll find any intelligent Christians who would argue that the actual date matters anyway. Just needed to clarify for those who think that what you're saying is based on total fact as opposed to simply ideas.

But, the Easter bunny! What the fuck does that have to do with Jesus's death? Does the bunny go to his cross and give him an egg? WTF?

The only explanation is the pagan celebrations of fertility. So, why is Christianity still celebrating this holiday this way. Hell, all it does is confuse children.

[Lox]

Were certain dates and times absorbed into Christianity? Yes. Everyone knows that Christ wasn't really born on 12/25. But I don't think you'll find any intelligent Christians who would argue that the actual date matters anyway. Just needed to clarify for those who think that what you're saying is based on total fact as opposed to simply ideas.

But, the Easter bunny! What the fuck does that have to do with Jesus's death? Does the bunny go to his cross and give him an egg? WTF?

The only explanation is the pagan celebrations of fertility. So, why is Christianity still celebrating this holiday this way. Hell, all it does is confuse children.

Does the existence of the Easter bunny really bother you that much, Sine? Did he "touch" you when you were little. j/k

Seriously though. Does that matter? Is the idea of an Easter bunny stupid in relation to celebration of the death and resurrection of Jesus? Yes. I like Jim Gaffigan and I saw him live and he has a whole bit on that. I laugh because it's true.

Humans absorb things and merge things into their culture all the time. Just look at the things that are part of US culture today and you can probably trace many of them back to some other culture that was merged in. Pointing out that the Easter bunny has nothing to do with Christianity doesn't invalidate what Easter is celebrated for because no one is claiming it has anything to do with the basic Christian beliefs.

Why is Easter still celebrated the way it is? Because Christianity made it into something about Jesus. To me, that trumps whatever Easter was originally meant to be. Maybe it's a bigger deal to you or something, but I think you're making a big deal about nothing just to try to have a leg to stand on. Look at Christmas too. The version of Santa that we all know and love was created in 1885. Does Santa have anything to do with why Christmas is celebrated by Christians today? No, but it's become part of the culture.

As for you, Seek...you obviously know your history. I knew you were big into mythologies and ancient religions and all that. To be honest, it's been a while since I have delved into Mithaism, etc (I had to do some quick research and refreshing to respond before ). I'll respond to you once I freshen up a bit more!

[Julius Seeker]

Find a book on Mysticism as a whole, if you can. It's a VERY interesting subject and certainly worth the time if for anything; enjoyment. If you are into this sort of stuff.

Also check out books on ancient Indian and Egyptian religions and histories, and you may find it fascinating at how similar those ancient religions are to Germanic, Greek, Roman, and other Western faiths. Egyptian is more foreign, but it certainly flowed into the Greek, Persian, and Roman faiths (particularly since these people all had trade with Egypt, and all ruled Egypt at various times), but the Indian family of religions is very much related to the rest of Europe going back into pre-history. If for anything, read out of interest of these belief systems on their own, personally speaking, I find the topic quite enjoyable. Old Greek texts from the era of Plato are very interesting too.

Other books that I find are of particular interest are books on linguistic history. The spread of culture (including deities) can be seen through the family tree of languages. Then of course, cultural exchange through trade and conquest (Egypt is very important here). Though the topic has A LOT of controversy behind it because of all the racism and political movements that developed from the study of it particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries. So a lot of current arguments are quite flawed; I.E. the rejection of the Aryan Invasion theory, because there's plenty of historical evidence which suggests it is very possible. Though in reality, probably no one theory is true, it was likely a combination of things.

[Lox]

I used to be really into Greek mythology when I was younger (9 or 10 or something). I remember reading through our encyclopedia collection for hours just looking into that stuff.

Ancient histories are quite interesting just because it's crazy to imagine the worlds these people lived in thousands of years ago. We sometimes forget that anyone existed before us today.

[Chris]

you know what the fuck. I wanted to give someone a laugh and you gotta go all philosophical...you don't hve to have a philosophical debate about chich tracts

[Lox]

you know what the fuck. I wanted to give someone a laugh and you gotta go all philosophical...you don't hve to have a philosophical debate about chich tracts

Blame Sine. It's always his fault.

It took me a few minutes to figure out what you meant by "chich tracts". haha I'll be totally honest...those cartoons are funny because they're so bad. It makes me cringe to read them. On a side note, did anyone else notice that the Islamic guy started to cry what looked like semen. And the other guy kind of looks like Hitler.

Also, why don't you have a little bar showing your level of forum loserishness like the rest of us? I just noticed that yours is missing.

[Julius Seeker]

I'm jealous of the bar Sine has.

[RentCavalier]

Christianity is basically a cleaned up version of Zorostrosianism or whatever the fuck you spell it as.

Also Sprach Zarathustra!

[Chris]

Also, why don't you have a little bar showing your level of forum loserishness like the rest of us? I just noticed that yours is missing.

I'm justg that fucking cool douchebag