The Shrine

Fifth novel completed, hooray! Final page count is at 229, single-spaced.

Now I need to find a publisher!

Yahtzee Jr.: A Life in Mimicry



Just kidding, congrats! I'd read your Narnia 2 review, but I really dont' care about Narnia.... and the review is way too fucking long. You should write reviews for IGN.

I was actually surprised by how long the review ended up becoming. I'm still proud of it though, it's a funny one.

Hold on to it and then read it again in 4-5 years... if at THAT point you still think it's good THEN maybe go look to get it published, but chances are you'll realize it's not nearly as great as you think it is now.

That's not a personal jab, but in the vast majority of cases when you write/create something as a teen that you think is great you'll find out a few years down the road wasn't nearly that great (think elementary school band... you thought you all rocked and then you grow up and listen to an elementary school band and find out just how bad you sucked).

Out of curiosity though, what is the book about?

Yeah, wait until you turn 16 or 17 and then see what you think of it.

Congrats, kid. Let's hope you get it published.

Make sure your parents set up a proper trust fund so in 10 years you can use the coin to get an education at a solid college or university (had to sneak one in there :-)

What are they all about?

Speaking of books... ah hell, i'll start a new thread instead of jacking.

...doesn't anyone here know I"m 18?

As for what the book's about, it's sort of a pseudo-cyberpunk book. It stars a "hack doctor"--that is, an unlicensed doctor who specializes in providing unofficial medical care for gangsters and the like--named Dr. T. Loveless. One day, a man comes into his clinic with a sick girl--a girl afflicted with an incredibly rare, incurable disease.

Loveless initially breaks his code of never refusing treatment by simply saying that he can't do it. However, witnessing another, far more corrupt "Hack Doctor" using his patients to push illegal painkillers, Loveless is inspired to seek out a miracle cure, which is supposedly in the hands of an incredibly cold-blooded Pharmaceutical Company.

Along the journey, Loveless must contend with demons, terrorists, lost Saints, a city besieged by insects, ancient Gods, and ultimately must find a reason to exist in a world slowly dying.

The book is entitled "The World if Loveless".

When I was in high school/college, I thought I can write too. But now I don't have the time.

Well, I'm a journalist major. Writing is good practice for me. Plus, really, I want to end up writing comic books.

RentCavalier wrote:Well, I'm a journalist major. Writing is good practice for me. Plus, really, I want to end up writing comic books.

Really? That's cool. What comics are you reading currently?

RentCavalier wrote:...doesn't anyone here know I"m 18?

It's hard to tell when you act 14 half the time

RentCavalier wrote:Well, I'm a journalism major

And let us know when you switch to a big boy major

That's okay. He can be a doctor of journalism and start raving about bats and stuff.

SineSwiper wrote:That's okay. He can be a doctor of journalism and start raving about bats and stuff.

That is the plan.

As for comics, I've been trying to get through the Sandman and Preacher serieses, as stupid Alan Moore is being all slow and shit about getting the third League volume done. Or, it's done, but not for sale. I can't ever blood tell, because there's, like, some extra Black Dossier book or something.

Besides that, I've been trying to get into more super-hero comics. I got two volumes of Ultimate Spiderman, I loved the Garth Ennis Ghostrider, and Constantine is an excellent series (that, unfortunately, bears more than a few unintentional similarities to my lynchpin series of books, teh Black Reports.)

Mostly, though, I've been trying to get more literary, so I"ve been reading a lot more books. I finally got through the first volume of Songs of Fire and Ice and I fucking LOVED it. I read the first Dark Tower and was unimpressed, but there's the Dresden Files that I've been investigating and that's pretty good too.

I think the easiest job in the world would be the story writer and have someone like the guy who drew Death Note/Hikaru no Go draw for you so you can get millions of dollar for doing basically nothing.

That's cool. Check out the "Y: The Last Man" trade. Awesome story that is completely finished now.

I've been doing a lot of reading again lately, too, because I don't feel like spending money on a new DS game. haha I just finished "A Shadow in Summer" by Daniel Abraham and that was pretty good. I'm reading "Heretics of Dune" right now.

Except that Manga artists all draw the exact same shit.

OH SNAP!

I kid. I actually think the guy who did Hellsing's manga series was brilliant.

RentCavalier wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:That's okay. He can be a doctor of journalism and start raving about bats and stuff.

That is the plan.

As for comics, I've been trying to get through the Sandman and Preacher serieses, as stupid Alan Moore is being all slow and shit about getting the third League volume done. Or, it's done, but not for sale. I can't ever blood tell, because there's, like, some extra Black Dossier book or something.

Besides that, I've been trying to get into more super-hero comics. I got two volumes of Ultimate Spiderman, I loved the Garth Ennis Ghostrider, and Constantine is an excellent series (that, unfortunately, bears more than a few unintentional similarities to my lynchpin series of books, teh Black Reports.)

Mostly, though, I've been trying to get more literary, so I"ve been reading a lot more books. I finally got through the first volume of Songs of Fire and Ice and I fucking LOVED it. I read the first Dark Tower and was unimpressed, but there's the Dresden Files that I've been investigating and that's pretty good too.

You should get Martin's first Dreamsongs volume. It has his early writings, short stories, and even parts inbetween about his life and how he came into writing... which is similar to your interest, he was a comic fanboy to the extreme. Its very interesting.

Also, dont give up on the Dark Tower, the first book is probably the worst but the series as a whole is awesome.

The Gunslinger reads better once you know where King is going to go with that character the themes. The Drawing of the Three, The Wastelands and Wizard and Glass are all excellent. In fact, I think Wizard and Glass is King's best book.

The books after... they're not bad, but I don't think they're as nearly as good.

Short version: don't give up The Dark Tower books yet.

Kupek wrote:The Gunslinger reads better once you know where King is going to go with that character the themes. The Drawing of the Three, The Wastelands and Wizard and Glass are all excellent. In fact, I think Wizard and Glass is King's best book.

The books after... they're not bad, but I don't think they're as nearly as good.

Short version: don't give up The Dark Tower books yet.

King wrote the first gunslinger looong before he decided to make it into a series. In fact, i think he said he was in college? So, the early follow ups are much much better since he had matured as a writer. I agree that the series hit its stride in the books that you mentioned, i cant get enough backstory on Roland... The ones after W&G and his long hiatus have their own style, that again, is different than the rest of the series. But, i liked the ending though, so it was worth getting through them.

He started The Gunslinger when he was 19. Which is why I didn't say "once you know where King is going" with the story, because when he wrote it, he didn't know. (I said "going to go.")

I've heard the same thing a lot, so I'll prolly grab the second the volume.

I was sort of surprised though. The Dark Tower was sold to me under the pretext that it was an almost ridiculous, over-the-top violence and sex extravaganza.

It's actually (more or less) deeper than that. I WAS SHOCKED.

You all should read China Mieville. He's easily become one of my biggest influences.

EDIT: I've been proofreading one of my earlier books--well, the last one I actually managed to complete. I personally like it, but I've noticed that I have a trend to metaphor off the fucking WALL.

Note to self in future: less metaphors. I seriously run into one every two paragraphs, and some of the better ones tend to spiral into paragraph-long descriptions of flames.

Fortunately, they're GOOD metaphors, so it's not all bad. I'll need to find somebody to read the book and highlight things that can be cut though. I can correct grammar, but I like my own writing too much to dare start heavily cutting out sentences.

Any chance you'd post some samples for critiquing purposes?

Hmmm...I could. I have five books to choose from, really, so I'd have to decide which ones to sample...

Would you like me just to post them up here?

RentCavalier wrote: As for comics, I've been trying to get through the Sandman and Preacher serieses, as stupid Alan Moore is being all slow and shit about getting the third League volume done. Or, it's done, but not for sale. I can't ever blood tell, because there's, like, some extra Black Dossier book or something.

Besides that, I've been trying to get into more super-hero comics. I got two volumes of Ultimate Spiderman, I loved the Garth Ennis Ghostrider, and Constantine is an excellent series (that, unfortunately, bears more than a few unintentional similarities to my lynchpin series of books, teh Black Reports.)

I can definitely point you in the right direction for good books. and would be glad to. but also if you ever feel like learning a bit....script something and send it my way and I'll look over it for you and give you some pointers and hopefully help you become a better comic writer as it is a whole different animal. so yeah if you ever feel like you are serious about that I'd be glad to help you out in developing your skill to the point that an editor might look at you seriously....I also have the connections to get you in touch once you do hit that level of ok...this is somethingI would let see print.....help you get into the creative flow of the comic medium which not a lot of people get that well nowdays.....Fuck you Judd Winnick...

but yeah if you are serious gimme a shout and I'll see about helping you out in developing you into a sweet writin machine.... seeing as how you want to write comic and I...y'know....edit em for a living....

and on another note....Black Dossier is essentially the third volume of the LoEG. It's also really damn good.....but I'd hold off till the Absolute edition comes out later this year (Oversized hardcover slipcase and an album with what is essentially the soundtrack to the book) absolute editions are the things of genius....

Also since you do like Guys like Garth Ennis a few reading suggestions...

Garth Ennis - The Boys......it's his new series and he touted it as him Out Preachering Preacher....and yeah....it's seriously fucked up....it's also a little hit and miss....the first arc was a great set-up arc. showng a world of depraved superheroes. the secnd arc was a srt of murder mystery and really was pretty weak and more an excuse to mae really not very funny gay jokes. the third arc brought back the quality and was pretty solid. the arc that just ended was fucking fantastic....he took the time off from a little of the depravity to really explore the characters....

It's about a CIA sponsored group that monitors and keeps superheroes in check.

Warren Ellis - Planetary. Easily my favorite book of the last decade.....the final issue has yet to come out but it really is fucking amazing....it's all available in trade paperback but once the last issue comes out it will probably all come out in one big hardcover omnibus....

Sleeper - Ed Brubaker. An Espionage book in a superhero universe...it could never work....well it does and it's fucking brilliant. well worth buying the trades. I give it my highest recomendation as it's just gritty as hell and down to earth.

Criminal - Ed Brubaker.....fucking amazing crime noir series. it's released monthy in volumes and each volume is collected as it's own series with the tagline of criminal.... it's an absolutely amazing series that while each story interconnects....you don't have to read one to enjoy the others....every single issue also has backup content as essays written by different comic writers about film and literary noir. amazing book.

Greg Rucka - Queen & County - currently being rereleased by Oni press. brilliant....it's undercover espionage spy work in the brit agencies. fantastic work. It just finished up and is all available in trade. I hghly suggest checking it and the prose novels he also wrote with the characters involved. (His Atticus Kodiac novels arefucking fantastic too) Also has another Oni book coming soon called Stumptown whch is a PI story based in Portland.....sweeet....

Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker - Gotham Central - yeah it's gotham....but the main chracters are not batman. no it's Renee Montoya and Crispus Allen. 2 Hard Boiled detectives wth the gotham police department. It's also fucking brilliant. One of the best books I've read in a long time....why? Batman isn't solving the crimes and rarely makes an appearace...it's about the people in the department that has to deal with a city filled with vigilantes ad not everyone approves.....great book....corruption, mystery, and hard biled action...woot.

Brian K Vaughn - Well he made los watchable again.....he also s fucking brilliant....Pick up Y The last man and Pride of Baghdad. both amazing series. one of the few guys who simply get how comics work as a medium. hell, he just did a series that made fucking wolverine interesting....but Pride of Baghdad....essentially the occupation of iraq told through the eyes of lions that escaped from the zoo. ust an amazing and heart wrenching OGN. Y The last man....he's yorick...he's awesome....he's the last man alive on earth....brilliant from start to finish....

Bill Willingham - Fables, Jack of Fables. What if fable characters were real....and lived in new york as refugees from the "emporer" who conquered the great fable lands....sunds weird.....well it's fucking brilliant....and the big bad wolf is the greatest character ever.... Jack of Fables....well it turns out he's the Jack in every stry....Jack and the Beanstalk, Jack Frost, Jack B. Nimble, all of em.....He's also a pompous womanizing money grubbing douchebag....

I've got many more.....any Warren Ellis or Garth Ennis stuff doen for avatar press is hit and miss but the hits are fucking brilliant....Black Summer especially

Jesus Christ! I'm not sure who, but you owned someone with that post, Chris.

Chris:

Do you have an email address? I've been working on a few scripts, and it'd be easier to send them via email.

RentCavalier wrote:Chris:

Do you have an email address? I've been working on a few scripts, and it'd be easier to send them via email.

emeraldtowers@gmail.com buddy....

You might get something tonight, I've been meaning to try and convert a scene from my book into a comic script.

It's likely going to be terrible, I've never really done scripts before, and I'm only vaguely aware of how they work, based off examples I've seen.

Since we're on the topic, how much direction does the writer usually give the illustrator? Alan Moore tends to let his artists do their own thing, but I know others are more controlling...

RentCavalier wrote:You might get something tonight, I've been meaning to try and convert a scene from my book into a comic script.

It's likely going to be terrible, I've never really done scripts before, and I'm only vaguely aware of how they work, based off examples I've seen.

Since we're on the topic, how much direction does the writer usually give the illustrator? Alan Moore tends to let his artists do their own thing, but I know others are more controlling...

what? Have ou ever read an alan Moore script? THe guy is more detailed than....welll....he's fucking nuts....I own a couple of his scripts from V FOr Vendetta (Complete with coffee stains.....typrwriters were awesome) he writes a narrative describing every panel...seriously....check out dave gibbons' notes from watchmen where he literally has to read a page and a half of description for individual panels in some cases. it's insane...

In all honesty it depends on the artist though.....if you have an artist you can work closely with or that you trust can get your vision across with less detail then you can but really you at least need the important details of background and expression and body language.

I'd suggest buying a few books really.

1) Queen & Country Scriptbook - Oni Press. the script for the first story arc of Queen and COuntry with commentary explaining the creative process that goes into writing a comic. One of the more educational script books. - Greg Rucka

2) Powers Scriptbook - the script to the first few issues orf powers....pretty much just the script but it shows how styles are different when yu read that next to another scriptbook. Brian Michael Bendis.

3) Hunter/Killer Scriptbook - Mark Waid.....

essentially find ourself somce scriptbooks to train yourself.....Bendis works so closely with his artists that his detail is usually pretty sparse. Mark Waid is sort of in the Middle. Greg Rucka gives the important details but also gives links to photoo reference of weapons or what he has in his mind as something that a room shoud look close too and tstuff like that.....The Q&C one and Powers I would put at the top of the list. I'll get some links from some Geoff Johns stuff too whose great..

Well, I'll add those to my shopping list for next month. That's reassuring though--I was afraid I wouldn't be able to be too detailed in a comic script. In that case, I can tweak my stuff and send you something soonish.

RentCavalier wrote:Well, I'll add those to my shopping list for next month. That's reassuring though--I was afraid I wouldn't be able to be too detailed in a comic script. In that case, I can tweak my stuff and send you something soonish.

do what you want man....everyone scripts differently....the important part is having your panels flow.....there are a few ways......Marvel used to have a house style that an issue was plotted and then the issue was drawn and then the dialogue was written....this was fr lack of a better word.....fucking retarded.....not everyone is Steve Ditko or John Romita. this is a lot of what killed the quality of Marvel comics in the 90's as they actually made it their house style and made poeple conform to it for a while...artists loved it but artists arent' writers for a good reson...the storytelling pacing and flow blew ass on a lot of books...but other than that you need to mae sure that every page flows....before you start a story you need to distinguish how many pages each story beat gets. so lets say oyu have the set-up....ok say that's 4 pages.....ok then you have the primary stry which is going to have 13 pages. then you have a seconday set-up story that gets 2 pages and then a conclusion that gets 3 pages.....

after that you decide how many panels on each page and every page should say how many panels you want and the shape of the panels and layout of the page....remember....flow is the key....knowing how many pages yu have to work with and how much detail space your artist needs....there are some artists who can't put 7 panels on a page....they can really only hit five....some that excell at full page splashes or double page spreads. it's important to know ut more important that you yourself make sure the story flows from panel to panel and page to page.

it's fucking sexy

by the way....I'm warning you....I will be a total ass hole....I'm gonna be editing and giving everything my full attention as I'm between projects right now. so I'm going to fucking hammer you to a wall and rape your confidence like I was Dr. Light. ok that's exagerrating but I will keep sending it back to you and having you re-write things and hep you out with every aspect of it....if I'm gonna help yu become a comic writer I'm gonna make sure you're a fucking good one....

Hell, that's fine. I need somebody too--I can't find anybody who has the time to read any of my books, and I can't be totally responsible for self-policing myself until I get some feedback. Plus, I know very little about proper comic-writing, so it's good I get some real lessons.

RentCavalier wrote:Hell, that's fine. I need somebody too--I can't find anybody who has the time to read any of my books, and I can't be totally responsible for self-policing myself until I get some feedback. Plus, I know very little about proper comic-writing, so it's good I get some real lessons.

I'm an ass hole because I care....answer my question in the PA rainslick thread too......dick

Ok, I sent you an email.

It's an adaptation of the first scene in my first novel. I've been fixing it up for the past few hours, so...yeah.

go rewrite it. it was unreadable like that.....listen to what I said about page and panel flow. I'll seximafy you yet but the way you sent it to me it's unreadable :p

Since it was requested, I thought it might be interesting to sporadically post some samples of my books here, for your blistering critique.

Here's a segment from my current project. Hope you like it.

To establish, the narrator is Simon Black, who was just in a shipwreck and washed ashore on some unknown island. Jon White found him on the beach.
---

Jon White led me along a blasted highway, dead land stretching out as far as the eye could see in all directions.

White was…strange. Well, not strange so much as puzzling. He spoke with a pretty obvious Jamacain accent, despite the fact that Jamaica didn’t technically exist anymore. Not after the incident, about fifty years ago, where it was forcibly sunk.

I suppose the accent might have caught on to other islands. I was certainly somewhere in the Caribbean, but there wasn’t much but destruction and desolation to really identify the landscape. As we walked, I finally gave up on figuring out and asked.

“Um…Mister White…”

“Call me Jon, mon.”

“Right. Jon. Where…um…where are we?”

He stopped suddenly. A few feet in front of us, the road just simply ended. Where it had once been there was now an impressively monstrous hole. It may have been a crater, or maybe just a sinkhole or something, but it was big. Down the sheer, rocky drop in front of us I could see buildings. Some of them grew out of the side of the hole itself, broken shells of their former selves, but the majority of them were low to the ground, dotting the bottom in a haphazard jumble.

Smoke rose from primitive chimneys, rising into the air in narrow, black plumes. People walked between buildings, slow, laborious steps, as if they bore the weight of the world on their shoulders. There was what looked like a disused tank that lay in the rubble of one building, and there was a palpable sense of despair in the air.

Beyond the village I could see the hole…crater…stretched out very far indeed. I could only barely see the other end, a brown line dotting the horizon, and inside the hole, maybe ten, twenty miles apart, were other villages, in the same or worse condition as the first. It was like I had stepped back in time, into some twentieth century Third World dive. I felt strangely guilty at that thought.

In the center of the hole, more or less, there was a military base of some sort. I could see a wire fence around it, and a bunch of squat, square buildings, all of them seeming to be built as barriers for some very large central block of metal or stone—it was too far away to tell. I saw trucks leaving the city, driving along a dusty road towards one of the nearby villages.

My attention was caught by the cars. There were three of them, and though the distance was great, they were clearly military vans—I could see rather large turrets poking out of their roofs, and if they were big enough to be seen from the that distance, I could only imagine what they looked like up close.

The trucks drove through the city haphazardly, and a crowd of people—vaguely humanoid specks—scattered as they converged on the center of town.

Some of the specks were fast enough, and they vanished under one of the trucks. The turrets swung, and I saw a flash of light burst from their tops a good few seconds before I heard the crackle of gunfire.

More of the specks fell, and the cars drove in a circle, shooting at random. The humanoid specks soon stopped moving, and the trucks paused to shoot at some of the buildings. A gust of wind blew past, and I could hear distant, dissonant screams carried on it. It was a very cold wind.

After about ten minutes, the trucks drove out of the village, shooting at any specks that were still moving near the outskirts. As they returned to the military base, the sickening realization hit me that I had just watched almost an entire village get massacred.

Jon White turned to me, his smile grim.

“You wanna know where you are, mon? Take a good look. Some might call it Hell.”

His grim grin grew wider.

“I prefer to call it Haiti.”

In terms of editing content, it's good. It's not too long at all. Since the description turns into an action event, it doesn't bore the audience at all.

Really, all I had was English and punctuation:

RentCavalier wrote:White was…strange. Well, not strange so much as puzzling. He spoke with a pretty obvious Jamacain accent, despite the fact that Jamaica didn’t technically exist anymore. Not after the incident, about fifty years ago, where it was forcibly sunk.

Sentence fragment, though, it's really a writer's prerogative. Keep it. It looks good. Also, it's "Jamaican".

RentCavalier wrote:Down the sheer, rocky drop in front of us I could see buildings.

Comma. In fact, remove the comma between sheer and rocky, and put it between us and I. Technically, you're supposed to put commas after multiple adjectives, but it's out-of-fashion, and I personally don't agree with it.

RentCavalier wrote:People walked between buildings, slow, laborious steps, as if they bore the weight of the world on their shoulders.

Personally, I would use a colon between buildings and slow. But, that's just me.

RentCavalier wrote:Smoke rose from primitive chimneys, rising into the air in narrow, black plumes. People walked between buildings, slow, laborious steps, as if they bore the weight of the world on their shoulders. There was what looked like a disused tank that lay in the rubble of one building, and there was a palpable sense of despair in the air.

Match things with things and people with people. Despair goes in the People sentence, and Tanks goes in the Smoke sentence. Actually, you could tie despair to smoke:

There was what looked like a disused tank that lay in the rubble of one building, which appeared to be the remains of a water tank [or describe what the writer thinks it is]. Smoke rose from primitive chimneys, rising into the sky in narrow black plumes, as a palpable sense of despair hung in the air. People walked between buildings: slow, laborious steps, as if they bore the weight of the world on their shoulders.

RentCavalier wrote:Beyond the village I could see the hole…crater…stretched out very far indeed.

Nice. If you were speaking in the third-person, I would probably recommend:

Simon could see the hole ("No, a crater!") stretched out very far indeed.

Depends on the writing style. Actually, on second thought, maybe you only use that if the guy is going to speak out loud. BTW, comma on that third word.

RentCavalier wrote:I could

Overly frequent use of the phrase. Try to tone it down.

RentCavalier wrote:I could only barely see the other end, a brown line dotting the horizon, and inside the hole, maybe ten, twenty miles apart, were other villages, in the same or worse condition as the first.

Try:

Only barely could see the other end--a brown line dotting the horizon--and inside the hole (maybe 10 or 20 miles apart) were other villages, in the same or worse condition as the first.

Learn to use your other forms of punctuation. This is a good example of that. (Hopefully. Somebody else might criticize my use of switching between double-dash and parens.)

Also, use "20th century". Don't be afraid of using numerals. You only need the words in the beginnings of sentences. Of course, "Third World" should stay where it is.

RentCavalier wrote:In the center of the hole, more or less, there was a military base of some sort. I could see a wire fence around it, and a bunch of squat, square buildings, all of them seeming to be built as barriers for some very large central block of metal or stone—it was too far away to tell. I saw trucks leaving the city, driving along a dusty road towards one of the nearby villages.

In the center of the hole, there was a military base of some sort. Around it was a wire fence, and a bunch of squat square buildings, all of them seeming to be built as barriers for some very large central block of metal or stone—it was too far away to tell. I saw trucks leaving the city, driving along a dusty road towards one of the nearby villages.

RentCavalier wrote:My attention was caught by the cars. There were three of them, and though the distance was great, they were clearly military vans—I could see rather large turrets poking out of their roofs, and if they were big enough to be seen from the that distance, I could only imagine what they looked like up close.

Remove the double-slash. It's a new sentence. Too big for anything else. Also, cars and trucks are two different things. Call them "trucks".

This reminds me of the fanfiction mailing list. I find that realistically, you need someone who:

1. Cares what you have to say
2. Is of comparable, preferably better level than you so far as understanding of English goes
3. Have a lot of time
4. Is not interested in writing themselves because otherwise they'd never have time to waste on you

It's pretty rare to find these combination of factors in people.

Aye, that took me a while and that was one or two pages, so I care not to edit an entire book.

It's best to take what you learned previously, and edit your own stuff yourself. Then, take it to a real editor. Doing the self-editing step first will save him a lot of trouble later on. Of course, always stay consistent in your writing style.

Thanks for the assistance. Grammar has always been my weak point--at least, in regard to sentence breaks and colon-usage, which is ironic because my style practically demands it.

One of my friend in college who is an eloquent writer said if you're good enough, you get to ignore rules of grammar. I was reading some of his stuff that had like 6 commas in one line and it's painful to read, but since he writes well it apparently all works out at the end.

Don Wang wrote:One of my friend in college who is an eloquent writer said if you're good enough, you get to ignore rules of grammar. I was reading some of his stuff that had like 6 commas in one line and it's painful to read, but since he writes well it apparently all works out at the end.

This is true, Requiem for a Dream solid example.

That's why I like writing in the first-person. If you decide just to go nuts with stuff, you can always chalk it up to stream of conciousness.

However, I do like to at least try to stick the basic rules of literature. Makes me feel more professional, even when I'm writing books about pirates or zombies or zombies AND pirates.

Don Wang wrote:One of my friend in college who is an eloquent writer said if you're good enough, you get to ignore rules of grammar. I was reading some of his stuff that had like 6 commas in one line and it's painful to read, but since he writes well it apparently all works out at the end.

It's not about being "good enough". It's about breaking the rules when the rules don't make sense. Sometimes, they are outdated.

For example, I was taught in school that if you had quotes like I have in that first sentence, it was wrong. It should be "good enough." But frankly, that doesn't make any fucking sense. The period isn't a part of the quote, so it should be there.

In fact, I think they've recently changed the rules to reflect that. Another sticking point with me is two spaces on a computer after sentences. I hate that HTML forces only one space after a period. The official English rule is 1.5 spaces, but you can't do that in even MS Word. So, some people think that it's supposed to be one space. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Consider the sentence:

"...to determine whether they were commercially viable in the U.S. Ware and his colleagues concluded that the green and the brown cotton yielded too little..."

U.S. Ware? What? What is U.S. Ware? Oh wait, it's a fucking end of a sentence. It's Ware. It's also really confusing. This is what happens when the amount of space that separates words and sentences are the same thing. They are two different lengths for a meaning, and because computers don't do the 1.5 thing, it shouldn't be just one space.