You know, this really makes me feel like an asshole...but...

[M'k'n'zy]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately. In the year sience I got married (my first anniversary was on the 7th) I have grown a lot, and improved myself in a lot of ways. I would probally never have realized it if not for two things. One is the people around me, family, co-workers, and friends, who have commented on the fact.

The other is when I look at some of my friends, and realize how little they have grown up. Here is where we get to why I really feel like an asshole. I look at some of these friends of mine, some of whom are married now, and just think to myself..you know....I dont really want to be associated with them anymore. The part of me that values their friendship is like, no, you asshole, you dont ever give up on your friends. But the more reasonable part of myself is telling me, you know, you've done all you can do. And quite honestly even though I am going with the reasonable side of me, I still cant help but feel shitty for it.

I just have come to the realization that I cant keep getting burned on stuff like this. I always keep hoping that with something that happens, eg, two friends of mine getting married, that things are going to change, and they are going to grow up and mature and start taking responsiblity for themselves, and then keep getting disapointed when it doesn't happen. Its just gotten to the point where I've given up on helping them, and know that I cant help them, no matter how much I want to.

Mabye that does make me an asshole, mabye it doesnt. I hate to lose friends, espically at my own choosing, but I also have to think of the influence they are going to have on me, and the fact that when it comes down to it, the friendship I feel for them is no longer reciprocated on the same level as it once was, if it is at all.

I think I might be typing this just to finally convince myself that I am doing the right thing by moving on with my life. If they ever want to grow up, I will still be here, and I will still be happy to be their friends, but until that point...I need to move forward, and let them stand still as long as they want.

[Zeus]

It's just a part of "growing up" I guess. I found that with a couple of older friends too. Just look at the positives, you had fun while you guys still had lots in common....

[Flip]

I've never been a big fan of the 'Im more mature than you' argument and i cant stand it when people say to others 'Just grow up'. The statement in itself is so childishly pompous and selfish that i cant help but think the person spewing it is the adolescent.

I also dont understand the 'ending the friendship' act... What are you going to do, invite them for coffee then breakup face to face? I find that married couples, or when i was married, seem to gravitate away from all their friends naturally without a messy conversation of any kind, and this is understandable to everyone involved. I think that method is preferable, because who knows when you will need their help int he future. If you tell someone you no longer want them in your life you are burning one hell of a bridge for no reason. I dont understand why not hanging out with them would mean you have to lose keeping in touch.

[Zeus]

I think it's more of a you grow apart thing. You just don't have as much in common and you just see each other less and less as time passes.

[Shellie]

I completely agree. I am a totally different person now than I was several years ago. I no longer associate with any of my old friends (some I just cant stand anymore, and one of my best friends was killed in a car accident a long time ago). Unfortunately I don't really have any real friends now other than work friends (Doesn't mean I don't consider you a friend Mully! ). Sine's sister is probably the only person outside of Sine that I spend any time with.

It's hard to make new friends at our age, when just about everyone is married.

*sigh* now I just sound pathetic lol

[Zeus]

I'm a little fortunate in that I still regularly hang out with 3 of my 4 friends who I've known for 20 years (I see the other occasionally still), another I see on occasion who I"ve known for 18 years, and two others who I've known for about 10 years each.

But yeah, all of the friends I have I've known for at least 5 years. No more new ones really. It's tougher when you get older and I have a high resistance to mixing work and real life.

[RentCavalier]

See, I just won't get married. Then, eventually, my lonlineness and spite will condense and form a cocoon-like Citadel of Spitefulness, where I will host the best sex and coke parties for all of my friends.

I think ahead, people.

[Shellie]

See, I just won't get married. Then, eventually, my lonlineness and spite will condense and form a cocoon-like Citadel of Spitefulness, where I will host the best sex and coke parties for all of my friends.

I think ahead, people.

That's the best plan right there

[Kupek]

I've never been a big fan of the 'Im more mature than you' argument and i cant stand it when people say to others 'Just grow up'. The statement in itself is so childishly pompous and selfish that i cant help but think the person spewing it is the adolescent.

I also dont understand the 'ending the friendship' act... What are you going to do, invite them for coffee then breakup face to face? I find that married couples, or when i was married, seem to gravitate away from all their friends naturally without a messy conversation of any kind, and this is understandable to everyone involved. I think that method is preferable, because who knows when you will need their help int he future. If you tell someone you no longer want them in your life you are burning one hell of a bridge for no reason. I dont understand why not hanging out with them would mean you have to lose keeping in touch.

Project much? He's not telling his friends to grow up, he's thinking they need to. There's a difference. Some people remain immature and aren't capable of taking responsibility for themselves. He no longer wants to associate with them, and he feels guilty about that. I don't think he actually wants to have a break-up talk.

I have very good friends from high school and college who I still see regularly. I don't think this is luck; I was drawn to people I was comfortable with, and wasn't comfortable with immature people. Because I've been in grad school for five years (with more to go), I've seen these friends get married, buy houses and not too long from now, some will have kids. So most of my friends are "more adult" than I am.

Anyway. Back to M'k'n'zy. No, it doesn't make you an asshole. When you associate with someone who's constantly making mistakes, you partially live through it yourself. That's hard, and after a time, you stop seeing the point. I don't know your friends or their circumstances, but you're allowed to move on.

[Julius Seeker]

See, I just won't get married. Then, eventually, my lonlineness and spite will condense and form a cocoon-like Citadel of Spitefulness, where I will host the best sex and coke parties for all of my friends.

I think ahead, people.

Don't forget to grow a moustache. You'll also need silk robes and a pool.

[M'k'n'zy]

I've never been a big fan of the 'Im more mature than you' argument and i cant stand it when people say to others 'Just grow up'. The statement in itself is so childishly pompous and selfish that i cant help but think the person spewing it is the adolescent.

I also dont understand the 'ending the friendship' act... What are you going to do, invite them for coffee then breakup face to face? I find that married couples, or when i was married, seem to gravitate away from all their friends naturally without a messy conversation of any kind, and this is understandable to everyone involved. I think that method is preferable, because who knows when you will need their help int he future. If you tell someone you no longer want them in your life you are burning one hell of a bridge for no reason. I dont understand why not hanging out with them would mean you have to lose keeping in touch.

Project much? He's not telling his friends to grow up, he's thinking they need to. There's a difference. Some people remain immature and aren't capable of taking responsibility for themselves. He no longer wants to associate with them, and he feels guilty about that. I don't think he actually wants to have a break-up talk.

I have very good friends from high school and college who I still see regularly. I don't think this is luck; I was drawn to people I was comfortable with, and wasn't comfortable with immature people. Because I've been in grad school for five years (with more to go), I've seen these friends get married, buy houses and not too long from now, some will have kids. So most of my friends are "more adult" than I am.

Anyway. Back to M'k'n'zy. No, it doesn't make you an asshole. When you associate with someone who's constantly making mistakes, you partially live through it yourself. That's hard, and after a time, you stop seeing the point. I don't know your friends or their circumstances, but you're allowed to move on.

Thank you, you understood where I was comming from perfectly. And just to give you example, two friends of mine got married about a month ago. One of them has a part time job, the other doesnt work. They just bought a 2000 dollar air purifier. For no real reason whatsoever. Gives you an idea of what I've been dealing with.

[Flip]

I've never been a big fan of the 'Im more mature than you' argument and i cant stand it when people say to others 'Just grow up'. The statement in itself is so childishly pompous and selfish that i cant help but think the person spewing it is the adolescent.

I also dont understand the 'ending the friendship' act... What are you going to do, invite them for coffee then breakup face to face? I find that married couples, or when i was married, seem to gravitate away from all their friends naturally without a messy conversation of any kind, and this is understandable to everyone involved. I think that method is preferable, because who knows when you will need their help int he future. If you tell someone you no longer want them in your life you are burning one hell of a bridge for no reason. I dont understand why not hanging out with them would mean you have to lose keeping in touch.

Project much? He's not telling his friends to grow up, he's thinking they need to. There's a difference. Some people remain immature and aren't capable of taking responsibility for themselves. He no longer wants to associate with them, and he feels guilty about that. I don't think he actually wants to have a break-up talk.

I have very good friends from high school and college who I still see regularly. I don't think this is luck; I was drawn to people I was comfortable with, and wasn't comfortable with immature people. Because I've been in grad school for five years (with more to go), I've seen these friends get married, buy houses and not too long from now, some will have kids. So most of my friends are "more adult" than I am.

Anyway. Back to M'k'n'zy. No, it doesn't make you an asshole. When you associate with someone who's constantly making mistakes, you partially live through it yourself. That's hard, and after a time, you stop seeing the point. I don't know your friends or their circumstances, but you're allowed to move on.

Thank you, you understood where I was comming from perfectly. And just to give you example, two friends of mine got married about a month ago. One of them has a part time job, the other doesnt work. They just bought a 2000 dollar air purifier. For no real reason whatsoever. Gives you an idea of what I've been dealing with.

Wow, no, i still disagree. You dont approve of their purchasing decisions and now think you should disassociate with them?.. This seems ridiculously petty. Who cares what they do, why does it make you stressed? Like i said, if you want to spend less time with particular people than thats your call, but to say that you'd hate to "lose friends" clearly means you are considering cutting people out of your life altogether. While that may happen naturally i dont think consciously coming to the decision to do so is a good thing.

Unless, of course, their behavior leads you to be someone you dont like. But, these guys dont sounds like drug dealers while you want to clean up your life. They buy air cleaners... and you think you are better than them.

Moving on is fine, i suppose, go find new friends who are more in line with who you think you are, but if you stop answering calls from your old friends to get your point across it is going to be a mess.

From experience, i shoved a lot of my friends aside for my (failed) marriage, but made sure i kept it all arms length friendly, because god knows i needed them when shit hit the fan. Thats not to say you will fall on your face in life, but you could... and i am willing to bet they would be there for you in a heartbeat while you currently think their filters are a waste of money. Not letting their life get to you so much seems like a better decision to me.

[M'k'n'zy]

Project much? He's not telling his friends to grow up, he's thinking they need to. There's a difference. Some people remain immature and aren't capable of taking responsibility for themselves. He no longer wants to associate with them, and he feels guilty about that. I don't think he actually wants to have a break-up talk.

I have very good friends from high school and college who I still see regularly. I don't think this is luck; I was drawn to people I was comfortable with, and wasn't comfortable with immature people. Because I've been in grad school for five years (with more to go), I've seen these friends get married, buy houses and not too long from now, some will have kids. So most of my friends are "more adult" than I am.

Anyway. Back to M'k'n'zy. No, it doesn't make you an asshole. When you associate with someone who's constantly making mistakes, you partially live through it yourself. That's hard, and after a time, you stop seeing the point. I don't know your friends or their circumstances, but you're allowed to move on.

Thank you, you understood where I was comming from perfectly. And just to give you example, two friends of mine got married about a month ago. One of them has a part time job, the other doesnt work. They just bought a 2000 dollar air purifier. For no real reason whatsoever. Gives you an idea of what I've been dealing with.

Wow, no, i still disagree. You dont approve of their purchasing decisions and now think you should disassociate with them?.. This seems ridiculously petty. Who cares what they do, why does it make you stressed? Like i said, if you want to spend less time with particular people than thats your call, but to say that you'd hate to "lose friends" clearly means you are considering cutting people out of your life altogether. While that may happen naturally i dont think consciously coming to the decision to do so is a good thing.

Unless, of course, their behavior leads you to be someone you dont like. But, these guys dont sounds like drug dealers while you want to clean up your life. They buy air cleaners... and you think you are better than them.

Moving on is fine, i suppose, go find new friends who are more in line with who you think you are, but if you stop answering calls from your old friends to get your point across it is going to be a mess.

From experience, i shoved a lot of my friends aside for my (failed) marriage, but made sure i kept it all arms length friendly, because god knows i needed them when shit hit the fan. Thats not to say you will fall on your face in life, but you could... and i am willing to bet they would be there for you in a heartbeat while you currently think their filters are a waste of money. Not letting their life get to you so much seems like a better decision to me.

That was just an example, and more or less what broke the camels back as far as the responsibility issue goes. When it comes down to it, the only contact in that particular situation is from my side anyway, they make no effort on their end to keep in touch with me at all. She even put her birthday ahead of comming to my wedding, even though she knew 5 months in advance that they were going to be on the same day, and told me for months that she would be there.

[Flip]

Then fine, let the friendship fizzle away like they seem to treat it. To me, though, if you start to go out of your way to not be friends then you are making a mistake. Thats all.

[Kupek]

Who cares what they do, why does it make you stressed?

If you don't care what your friends do, what's the point of calling them a friend?

[Flip]

Who cares what they do, why does it make you stressed?

If you don't care what your friends do, what's the point of calling them a friend?

There is a HUGE difference between having friends and having friends affect your day to day life... No one but your select few best friends should you be so involved with that an air cleaner would set you over the edge, IMO, and if they are your best friends, you can work it out without writing them off.

EDIT: This is a clear case of m'kn'zy being overly involved in his friends lives and letting it get to him. It shouldnt be this difficult.

[Kupek]

EDIT: Clearly how I see things is the only way they can possibly be.

[bovine]

People drift apart sometimes, big woop, wanna fight about it?


EDIT - Changed link to something more work appropriate and much, much, much more annoying.

[SineSwiper]

Man, Flip, WTF? Are you defending this sort of bullshit because YOU are one of those irresponsible blowhards? Seriously, tell us how you really feel.

And yes, if you have only a part-time job, you have no business buying a $2000 air purifier. Or a $2000 anything. Obviously, if they are making the effort to promote the friendship, drifting apart might be a good idea.

[kent]

Man, Flip, WTF? Are you defending this sort of bullshit because YOU are one of those irresponsible blowhards? Seriously, tell us how you really feel.

And yes, if you have only a part-time job, you have no business buying a $2000 air purifier. Or a $2000 anything. Obviously, if they are making the effort to promote the friendship, drifting apart might be a good idea.

it's not defending the BS, but it's not making sense how that "broke the camels back". what other people do with their money shouldn't affect you that much.

do they whine to him about being poor? do they ask him to borrow money? do they go out to dinner and avoid splitting the bill?

it just sounds like a very poorly told example of what the problem with the friendship is.

but yeah, if i had any friends that never contact me unless i call them first, then sure forget them. but there would be zero reason to feel bad about losing friends like that.

If you don't care what your friends do, what's the point of calling them a friend?

some close friends will really affect you, and some friends are just enjoyable to hang out with to do certain things every once in awhile. there's no need to go from close friend directly to never contact them ever again.

[M'k'n'zy]

Man, Flip, WTF? Are you defending this sort of bullshit because YOU are one of those irresponsible blowhards? Seriously, tell us how you really feel.

And yes, if you have only a part-time job, you have no business buying a $2000 air purifier. Or a $2000 anything. Obviously, if they are making the effort to promote the friendship, drifting apart might be a good idea.

it's not defending the BS, but it's not making sense how that "broke the camels back". what other people do with their money shouldn't affect you that much.

do they whine to him about being poor? do they ask him to borrow money? do they go out to dinner and avoid splitting the bill?

it just sounds like a very poorly told example of what the problem with the friendship is.

but yeah, if i had any friends that never contact me unless i call them first, then sure forget them. but there would be zero reason to feel bad about losing friends like that.

If you don't care what your friends do, what's the point of calling them a friend?

some close friends will really affect you, and some friends are just enjoyable to hang out with to do certain things every once in awhile. there's no need to go from close friend directly to never contact them ever again.

They dont come to me directly, but they do rely on the guy who probally is my best friend to bail them out all the fucking time, sience he is their roommate and her brother.

[Flip]

Man, Flip, WTF? Are you defending this sort of bullshit because YOU are one of those irresponsible blowhards? Seriously, tell us how you really feel.

No, its the exact opposite. When i was married young and my friends were still in college mode or being silly, i thought i had my life in order and didnt need them anymore. While some friendships fizzled away im really glad i kept in touch with most of them, even if their actions at the time were questionable, and didnt become a holier than thou jerk... because they were a huge help when i needed them.

I have friends who cheat on their wives, or spend way too much money, or get shitfaced all the time, etc, but i realize it is pointless to let that get to me. I care about them, know they will figure things out eventually and int he meantime im there for them if they need it and i know they are there for me. Isnt that what friendship is about?

If its completely one sided than i guess that is a different story.

[Zeus]

I think it's more of a you grow apart thing. You just don't have as much in common and you just see each other less and less as time passes.

'Nuff said

[SineSwiper]

No, its the exact opposite. When i was married young and my friends were still in college mode or being silly, i thought i had my life in order and didnt need them anymore. While some friendships fizzled away im really glad i kept in touch with most of them, even if their actions at the time were questionable, and didnt become a holier than thou jerk... because they were a huge help when i needed them.

I have friends who cheat on their wives, or spend way too much money, or get shitfaced all the time, etc, but i realize it is pointless to let that get to me. I care about them, know they will figure things out eventually and int he meantime im there for them if they need it and i know they are there for me. Isnt that what friendship is about?

If its completely one sided than i guess that is a different story.

I dunno, that seems like a friend simply for moral support, more than what you have in common. I have my family for moral support, so I really don't have that problem. After all, if friends start doing shit that is disrespectful (ie: cheating on their wives, etc.), I start to not respect them as a person any more, because I realize that they are an asshole.

Sure, you might tell them that it's a bad idea, and if they continue not to listen, then their value as a friend is diminished. It's not "holier than thou". It's just common sense values.

After all, (to take an extreme example) you wouldn't be friends with a hitman, right? If you don't agree that killing people for money is right, then you probably wouldn't be good friends with a hitman.

[Tessian]

After all, (to take an extreme example) you wouldn't be friends with a hitman, right? If you don't agree that killing people for money is right, then you probably wouldn't be good friends with a hitman.

Fuck that, having a hitman as a friend is the BEST; right up there with having a friend who's a pig farmer. You never know when you'll need someone to disappear.


In the end it's a subjective issue-- it depends on what you have your friends around for. I have friends that can fill in spots along the entire spectrum of morality, but I can guarantee you that I am only close friends with those who follow a similar code of morality/ethics as I do. So it's up to you-- if you don't care to be friends with people who are idiots and liars and scum then don't. If you don't give a shit then no one else does either so have fun.

[RentCavalier]

After all, (to take an extreme example) you wouldn't be friends with a hitman, right? If you don't agree that killing people for money is right, then you probably wouldn't be good friends with a hitman.

Fuck that, having a hitman as a friend is the BEST; right up there with having a friend who's a pig farmer. You never know when you'll need someone to disappear.

You've been reading Lackadaisy Haven't you?

For everyone else, Lackadaisy is an amazing webcomic about the 1920s and all that. Despite all the talking cats, I assure you it isn't some "Furry" thing. Its very charming, and there's a pretty memorable scene involving hitmen and pig farmers.

[SineSwiper]

Rent, have you not seen Snatch?

[RentCavalier]

Um...

No?

[Tessian]

Rent, have you not seen Snatch?

Alright Sine, you win an awesome sticker in my book today for getting that reference... too few people do and I use it all the time.

So yeah, wtf are you talking about RC?

[RentCavalier]

I explained it in my post.

...shut up. Read Lackadaisy anyway, its worth your while.

[Shellie]

Watch Snatch

[Julius Seeker]

After all, (to take an extreme example) you wouldn't be friends with a hitman, right? If you don't agree that killing people for money is right, then you probably wouldn't be good friends with a hitman.

Fuck that, having a hitman as a friend is the BEST

Caption: "We've come to party"