The Shrine

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx ... 609&pgno=0

Pretty snazzy, definitely something they should do but I didn't expect it to happen.

If they change the GUI back to XP, I'm there

I'm just... so happy. Honestly, I expected to get screwed. Of course, I kinda expected to get screwed when I bought Vista Ultimate but, hey, I did that on purpose.

Shrinweck wrote:I'm just... so happy. Honestly, I expected to get screwed. Of course, I kinda expected to get screwed when I bought Vista Ultimate but, hey, I did that on purpose.

They're just temporarily pulling out. Wait 'til you get that thing installed...

"This is a consumer-oriented program targeted at individual consumers and small businesses that have purchased eligible PCs during the Program Eligibility Period."

This program is not yet happening, and my understanding is that this will just be a program when they more officially and openly announce windows 7, to encourage people to keep buying computers with vista because they'll just be able to upgrade later for free. Everyone else who has already bought vista is fucked.

or so is my understanding.

Yeah, I didn't read the article, whoopsy.

Glad I haven't bought Vista yet then!

Lox wrote:Glad I haven't bought Vista yet then!

It's fucking horrible. Don't touch it. I am forced to use it on my laptop unless I wanna reinstall the world. Worse GUI ever. Just stick with XP there's zero reason to switch.

DOUBLE POST

I dunno, I got it from Slashdot http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/11/238222 and there's still no clear indication as to whether there will be a cutoff period for when you bought Vista to be eligible for the upgrade.

Oh and Zeus go eat a bag of dicks, Vista's UI is decent and it's not even very different from XP.

Tessian wrote:Oh and Zeus go eat a bag of dicks, Vista's UI is decent and it's not even very different from XP.

You think so, huh? Well, try this one on for size:

Without any coaching or hints, as someone who's never seen Shitsa before to shut down their computer. Use a timer to figure out how long it takes before they're ready to throw the computer against the wall.

The more I use Vista, the more I like it. I don't like how they reorganized some stuff, but it's not awful and it runs great if you have a newer PC.

Zeus wrote:Use a timer to figure out how long it takes before they're ready to throw the computer against the wall.

Are we talking about normal people here, or retarded relatives of Cartman?

Zeus wrote:You think so, huh? Well, try this one on for size:

Without any coaching or hints, as someone who's never seen Shitsa before to shut down their computer. Use a timer to figure out how long it takes before they're ready to throw the computer against the wall.

This holds for all interfaces. What you call "intuition" is really learned behavior.

The Seeker of the Rings wrote:

Zeus wrote:Use a timer to figure out how long it takes before they're ready to throw the computer against the wall.

Are we talking about normal people here, or retarded relatives of Cartman?

Even someone who is relatively decent at using computers. NO ONE finds the shutdown without some help or extensive trial and error. It's so unintuitive it's nuts.

Kupek wrote:

Zeus wrote:You think so, huh? Well, try this one on for size:

Without any coaching or hints, as someone who's never seen Shitsa before to shut down their computer. Use a timer to figure out how long it takes before they're ready to throw the computer against the wall.

This holds for all interfaces. What you call "intuition" is really learned behavior.

Certainly. And it works well. Why fuck with it, why try and make it "better"? There's ZERO reason to move the Shutdown anywhere beyond clicking the Start button (or whatever they call it now).

The main reasons why the Shitsa way of shutting down your computer is worse than the XP way is that there's an extra layer of menus to get through. In XP, you click on Start -> Shut Down and bam, you can turn off your comp. In Shitsa (that's twice in three sentences; just for you, Tess :-), you have to click on the Start -> Arrow -> Shut down.

No big deal for you or me once we learn where it is, but that's a HUGE problem for the regular user. Ask anyone who develops ANY GUI and they will tell you that the secret to any GUI is to make it easy to use (having every game option in Hexic HD on one menu wasn't an accident). In order to do that, you have to minimize - not maximize - the layers of menus. My bud develops a server-based movie device for rich people (cheapest is over $10k) and they, as a rule, try to leave everything to the second menu layer. Most people get very confused when you add too many layers in there.

Ironically, Microshaft recognized this in Excel and tried to put all of the tools/options as visible buttons on the toolbar since they found that most people didn't know most of the features of Excel (they failed miserably with that GUI too but that's beyond the point). Yet they go ahead and make the one thing that everyone has to use every single time they use their computer (well, most) more difficult to use. This is stupidity. There's zero reason to make something like that harder to use. And not only that, it's under this little arrow button that no human being would say "I'm pretty sure that it'll be under THIS button, that makes sense" without being told what that button is for/

The movement of the Shutdown option is just one of the MANY stupid decisions made in the updating of the Shitsa GUI. Very few of them make any logical sense and are just different rather than better. Why the fuck would you change for the sake of change? You change to make things better. They just moved stuff around for no good reason (well, I'm sure they think they have one) just to be different. That's the worst possible reason to move stuff around.

And why not spend resources adding better features (I like the gadgets BTW) or fixing the back end and leave the GUI for a bit? It's a waste of time with zero value added to the consumer.

Translation of the above:

ZOMG VISTA IS SHIT CAUSE OF ONE POOR MENU CHOICE.

Zeus wrote:And why not spend resources adding better features (I like the gadgets BTW) or fixing the back end and leave the GUI for a bit? It's a waste of time with zero value added to the consumer.

Really? After you JUST spent PARAGRAPHS bitching about ONE SMALL PORTION of the UI you're going to then sit there and say that improving the GUI is unnecessary and consumers don't need their OS to continue making the user interface more intuitive, user friendly, etc? Fuck GUI's then, they reached their appex at Windows 9x, right?

My mom learned how to use Vista. If she can do it, a blind monkey can. Zeus, you are crying over nothing again.

The burner for Vista sucks. Really, really, really sucks. Also, I've bitched about it before and I'll continue to do so, Office 2007 sucks the devil's long shaft and submits willingly. Never have I seen a more pointless GUI redesign.

Vista blows. Drivers for it blows. I've seen more compatible drivers on FreeBSD, and that's saying a lot. The inane "Windows detected something horrible that might fuck up your computer beyond belief: explorer.exe, firefox.exe, iexplore.exe, any_fucking_thing.exe" messages blow. Microsoft's own staff says Vista blows. The memory requirements for Vista blows HARD.

Are you sure? Are you really sure? Are you completely sure that Vista blows? Yes, I am.

Tessian wrote:Translation of the above:

ZOMG VISTA IS SHIT CAUSE OF ONE POOR MENU CHOICE.

Zeus wrote:And why not spend resources adding better features (I like the gadgets BTW) or fixing the back end and leave the GUI for a bit? It's a waste of time with zero value added to the consumer.

Really? After you JUST spent PARAGRAPHS bitching about ONE SMALL PORTION of the UI you're going to then sit there and say that improving the GUI is unnecessary and consumers don't need their OS to continue making the user interface more intuitive, user friendly, etc? Fuck GUI's then, they reached their appex at Windows 9x, right?

No, not at all. I'd love for them to improve the GUI. As used to it as I am, it is "old" feeling and could probably use an update. And that was just one example of the shittiness of the GUI change. I was making a point not declaring that this was the sole reason for rejecting the new OS.

What I'm saying is why waste time fucking around with the GUI just to make it different rather than better when you can spend the resources make other, more useful changes. With the updates made to Office 2007 and Vista (I'm giving you a free pass, there) they obviously have no clue how to properly develop an interface, so don't do it...yet. Go and get some contractors who have a clue, do some learning, and then update it properly with the next Windows.

There's more to people refusing to update to Vista than cost or "being used to XP". There really is zero reason to do it and if you think of it from a business point of view, there's a relatively steep learning curve to use the system 'cause of how unintuitive (whether the intuition is natural or learned is not the debate here) it is. Learning curve = even more money for a business. And GUI changes for no reason make it a chore for the home consumer.

There's zero doubt that Vista has been an abject failure. The only reason people really have it is because it comes pre-installed on their new comp purchase. Look at the ads Microshaft (can't give you two breaks in one post :-) had with Seinfeld/Gates and the promotion you talked about above. Even Apple's poked fun at the lack of users switching over to Vista (like Meatloaf decreed, two out of three ain't bad, right?). Just like the Gillette Fusion (look at the most recent ads for that with the stars trying to get people to switch from the Mach 3), the market has simply rejected the "upgrade" because it brings nothing new to the table even ignoring the additional costs/hassle involved.

For once, Brendan and I seem to agree wholeheartedly on something :-)

kali o. wrote:My mom learned how to use Vista. If she can do it, a blind monkey can. Zeus, you are crying over nothing again.

My mom did too, but that's not the point. The point is they fucked with the GUI for no reason and didn't improve it in any way. Why bother?

"YOU FUCKING BITCH! WHY DID YOU MOVE THE CAN-OPENER TO THE TOP DRAWER! MY MOM ALWAYS KEPT IT IN THE SECOND DRAWER! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DID THIS! YOU'RE A HORRIBLE WIFE! I HATE YOU! I WANT YOU TO DIE!"