The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • CitiGroup's new Commercial (F-Bombs, NWS)

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #133554  by Imakeholesinu
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:25 am

 #133557  by Louis
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:53 am
This is awesome. I was actually just talking to someone about the failing banks. I have a plan:

Don't bail out the private banks. Why? This forces the banks to fix their own fucking problems. If they don't, most people will still get their money back because almost all banks are FDIC insured (sure, there is a cap to this benefit but most people would not come close to reaching it). In the long run, I would be willing to bet the banks would work much harder to fix their problems. Less banks would fail and less money would probably be paid out via the FDIC rather than just giving the banks money to throw away.

I know it probably sounds crazy but I've had the flu for the better part of five days and I've done nothing but watch the News Mix channel on DirectTV. Its kind of like staying at a Holiday Inn Express. I'm now an expert in everything.

 #133564  by Mental
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:13 pm
Yeah, even I am starting to wonder if the financial system has become a cancer on the rest of the world.

Due to having a prominent economist in the family and a few economics classes behind me myself, I actually understand somewhat about the complicated tangle of swaps, ratings agencies, out-of-control leveraging, and "systemic importance" that theoretically makes some of these guys "too big to fail". But ANY systemic dependence on a single company or small handul can be really, really problematic, especially when you start to realize how myopic these bankers have gotten.

To put it mildly, an awful lot of these guys are up to no good.

I can't tell if it's a conscious decision to screw people over for personal gain, or just the result of a financial sector that's gotten so derivate- and bonus- obsessed that it's forgotten that mortgages are actually supposed to help people buy homes, or that you're supposed to invest responsibly when other people put money in your bank to invest, or that borrowing thirty times as much as your company is worth is just a really goddamned stupid idea no matter how rosy the housing market looks and no matter what kind of nonsense your band of yes-man "analysts" is spouting off about a 36,000 Dow.

I'd guess more of the latter, but I've seen some transcripts from the Enron debacle nine years ago or so, and they're a bit chilling, to put it mildly - people laughing and mocking the people who lost their power during the winter in the shortages resulting from their market manipulation. Some of those guys definitely knew what they were up to, and that kind of arrogance has become endemic in the modern financial sector too.

Personally, I neither have nor plan to make enough money to really care about it all at present, which is actually kind of a wonderful place to be right now. :) People yell about how my taxes are going to go up and I'll be paying for this for years, and I'm like "I think you have me confused with somebody far, far more solvent."

If the economy really depends on my picking up the slack in terms of taxes in any reasonable way in the near short-term, you guys are all FUCKED. I'll just put it that way.

 #133582  by SineSwiper
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:06 pm
Awwwww, shit! Here we go again. Cue the "Not this shit again" man!

As I've explained before, capitalism is unstable. It relies on human emotion and gut feelings of how they "feel" the economy is. If everybody feels the economy sucks, the economy will tank and collapse. Stocks will drop to nothing. Companies who rely on those stocks will go under. The dollar will drop. The economies of the world will collapse as well.

That's not to say that this hasn't happened to some extent. However, the idea that the government is doing something, real or imagined, has slowed the progress of this freefall. It's an economic version of the Placebo effect.

Having said that, the bailout, like most bailouts, was still a good thing. If we hadn't bailed out the banks (at the very least), FDIC would had a worse effect than the bailout.

Think about it. A bank is the sum of its assets (customer accounts), and relies on taking that money and putting it in the stock market. Suddenly, the stocks drop like a brick AND people start withdrawing money. Now, the bank doesn't have enough money to cover the withdrawls, and the intra-bank loan system isn't working because the bad debts are causing distrust among all of the other banks. Now, the bank has zero assets, but still has millions of accounts with $$$ on their computers. A bank with zero assets is one that no longer exists.

That's where FDIC kicks in. FDIC insurance covers the assets of every single account that is in a bank. FDIC covers up to $100K on a bank account. No bank will allow more than $100K on an account because of this. Thus, the FDIC covers THE ENTIRE BANK! Since the bank no longer exists, it's no longer just 'some' people that want to withdrawal. It's EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT! Oh, and FDIC is a government insurance. Thus, the government has bailed out the bank the hard way by paying for 100% of its bank accounts, instead of providing a smaller loan to keep it afloat.

The bailout did what the intra-bank loans were supposed to do and provide enough money for them to pay for the withdrawals. By the way, the bailout is NOT free money. It is still a loan, including interest. The government has bailed out many industries and it has made money on them. This loan is no different.

As far as punishing the banks, yes, we would like to see them suffer, but ultimately, revenge would hurt us more than it would help us. It's a damn shame, but something we just have to put up with.
Louis wrote:I know it probably sounds crazy but I've had the flu for the better part of five days and I've done nothing but watch the News Mix channel on DirectTV. Its kind of like staying at a Holiday Inn Express. I'm now an expert in everything.
Actually, watching 24h news TV will rot your brain. It's scientifically known to give you brain cancer, and the cancer only takes about a few days grow into the size of a grapefruit. Sorry to be the one to give you the bad news...

 #133586  by SineSwiper
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:14 pm
Also, I never had to fill out 20 forms in the DMV, or wait in line for 6 hours. In fact, the DMV is very effective at getting everybody in a orderly fashion.

Now, I've had my problems with the County Clerk office, but they are doing a lot better. For example, they now have web cams in the office to show what the lines are going to be like before you get to the office. And if you don't like the system, vote them out. Holsclaw is probably the only Republican I vote for on a ballot.

 #133591  by Tessian
 Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:41 pm
Image

/obligatory
//everyone shut the fuck up, how many times do we need to have this debate?

 #133617  by Zeus
 Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 am
yeah, I think the whole waiting time at gov't offices is leftover from the 90s. I know I've hardly had to wait at any gov't office in the last 5 or 6 years and our hospitals are far better at actually moving you around during your 1 1/2 there. They make you do little tests and paperwork throughout the time rather than all at the beginning.

 #133619  by Louis
 Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:31 am
Speaking of hospitals, I went to the doctor for the first time in like three years yesterday. I remember it taking like 2-3 hours each time I went.

Yesterday, I swear I was in and out in like 30 minutes. They start off by taking your picture. Then immediately I was shuffled into to a room to have my vitals taken before I even had a chance to put my name on my patient information form. Then she showed me where my room would be and told me to go down to the lab down the hall for the flu test. They were waiting for me even before I got their. Apparently everyone in the office now carries these touch screen tablets and information is immediately available to everyone in the office that needs it. They swabbed my nose and sent me back to my room. Roughly 5 minutes later (about as long as it took me to read an article about China and Kung Fu Panda), the doctor was in the room ready to ask questions. About 3 minutes into his questions, he got a popup that my lab tests were back and that I did, in fact, have the flu. He set up all my prescriptions on the tablet and electronically sent them to the pharmacy (except for one, because you can't electronically fill narcotics :P). Drove to the Kroger pharmacy (because for every two prescriptions you get filled you get 10 cents off per gallon on your next fill up!) and everything was ready for pick up.

And yes, I've probably hijacked this thread.

 #133642  by SineSwiper
 Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:51 am
Hey, it's better than repeating the same conversations about the bailouts.