The Shrine

You know - normally I don't worry about these things. SARS, Bird flu, et cetera, didn't really convince me to freak out, and with good reason.

But this one I just have a feeling might be different. The World Health Organization has it at a 4 of 6 risk level...and I'm watching the news for the major airport hub states, and California and Texas and New York are going up by the hour.

California
New York
New Jersey
Texas
Michigan

There may be more I didn't check.

Simply put, we have a bad recession. Food prices have been high, and a lot of the poor are out of work. We've had an ongoing crisis with regard to healthcare and insurance (I personally have none) and coverage ability, so people haven't been seeing doctors. A lot of our food supply is filled with antibiotics and sick animals, and corn syrup and other food additives that decrease health.

And, of course, it's been a cold winter.

I'm not panicking, but I dunno. I have a bad feeling about this one. The hog raising-and-butchering industry has been cutting costs and raising too many animals for a LONG time now - Rolling Stone did an article about Smithfield and how their contractors just dump hogshit into streams, killing fish by the thousands...and other poor environmental practices.

I don't know. It just seems like we've been making really callous, bad mistakes for awhile. It seems that it mine be time that karma comes back around.

I don't want to panic...but unlike the last few epidemic threats, this one seems like there might be cause. WHO didn't rate the last few very high. They've got this one at a four, like I said.

I assume you guys know that washing hands really helps in disease season anyway...wear clean clothes, shower at least once a day, watch your diet.

And really, maybe the Jews have a point about not eating pork...

More areas:

Ohio, Indiana (U.S.)
Mexico City, San Lusi Potosi, Baja California Norte, Oaxaco City, Oaxaca and Mexicali (Mexico)
Quebec, Montreal and Maurice (Canada)
Catelonia, Catelonua, Girona, Barcelona, Girona and Teruel (Spain)
Manchester, Glasgow (UK)


Map of North American affected areas:

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... png"></img>

World map by severity level:

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... svg"></img>

Pandemic severity chart:

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... png"></img>

Just be careful, guys and girls. This one's caseload is rising awful fast.

My cousin is freaking out thinking she has this. Last month she went to Mexico for a wedding. She has a sore throat and sneezing today.

Tell her not to freak out. So far I think only one person in the U.S. has died. Survivability rate is high. I think this may be one of those that will be worse for people with already-compromised immune systems.

I think it's hilarious she's freaking out. She's one of those people...

Her most recent post on Facebook about it was that she's gonna wear a mask just to be safe.. I dont think she realizes if SHE has swine flu, a mask isnt going to make her safe....

lol oh hypochondriacs... they're so much fun.

Forget that it's easily treated and has a lower mortality rate than the normal flu-- the media is in a frenzy so EVERYBODY PANIC!!!

Blow me.

Replay wrote:Blow me.

Er.. I wasn't making fun of you, for a change... unless you are a hypochondriac who's panicking over this?

Tessian wrote:

Replay wrote:Blow me.

Er.. I wasn't making fun of you, for a change... unless you are a hypochondriac who's panicking over this?

You shouldn't deviate from a winning formula.

I don't like getting sick. Sue me. This one seems to be smaller than I'd feared, but they just raised the pandemic level another notch, so I don't know what to believe.

Replay wrote:I don't like getting sick. Sue me. This one seems to be smaller than I'd feared, but they just raised the pandemic level another notch, so I don't know what to believe.

Pandemic level is similar to terror level!

Then one hopes they know what they are doing. Not every warning system is a complete pile of shit, even if Bush's foreign policy was.

I think it's CDC's job to create panic, so that it doesn't create a pandemic. It is now known by everybody in the world, so everybody is going to go to the doctor and get it identified.

If they didn't do this, then it would go unnoticed and spread. Just which there was a happy medium between apeshit crazy panic and nothing. Our media is bi-polar.

SineSwiper wrote:I think it's CDC's job to create panic, so that it doesn't create a pandemic. It is now known by everybody in the world, so everybody is going to go to the doctor and get it identified.

If they didn't do this, then it would go unnoticed and spread. Just which there was a happy medium between apeshit crazy panic and nothing. Our media is bi-polar.

Yeah but in the US it boosts the economy because now all of those poor people who don't have jobs will now be forced to pay the doctor $100 just to be told what a simple web page can sum up in two seconds.

http://www.doIhavepigflu.com

This whole thing has been exacerbated by the scare tactics the national media use to sell papers and magazines at news stands around the world.

I'm not against how the CDC is handling this, but the media is just making it even worse.

I've had a sore throat for about two days now. I haven't had a fever. I attribute this mostly to seasonal allergies which has caused drainage when I sleep and the fact that I have sleep with my mouth open because of a deviate septum. (FUCK I forgot to buy those damn breath right strips, I knew I forgot something). Now I sound like a 45 year old chain smoking jersey woman but I'm not pooping myself and feeling inactive or dizzy.

Sera: If you cousin is so concerned, now is the time to educate not run around like a chicken with her head chopped off. I'm sure you can go to any news outlet and she can find the tell-tail signs of H1M1.

Not only that I don't see why everyone is getting their panties in a wad over this. 37,000 people in the US die of Influenza. I'm sure we're not even close to this mark 4 months in. Let nature take it's course, who knows, maybe it will claim some of the many nominees for the darwin awards like, crazy lady who swam with the polar bears, President Bush, or the entire cast of The Hills (minus LC).

However, unlike normal seasonal flu, swine flu has killed teens and young adults. Normally it's the very young or the very old who die from the flu. That makes it a concern, and stopping it's spread is important.

Kupek wrote:However, unlike normal seasonal flu, swine flu has killed teens and young adults. Normally it's the very young or the very old who die from the flu. That makes it a concern, and stopping it's spread is important.

This is not the first time Swine Flu has been around... It happened in the 1970's and it didn't do much...

Heres a PSA from it

http://www.videosift.com/video/1970-s-Swine-Flu-PSA-s

My favourite quote so far regarding this issue - courtesy of my friend:

1 person dead from swine flu in the US... Meanwhile another 5,769 people have died from obesity in the past week. Maybe you people should forget about H1N1 and lay off the chalupas.

Hey! I been boxing and slimming down hardcore. I joined a boxing gym.

I'm almost finished with my case of SARS, whooping cough, allergies, whatever now.

Last night was the worst of it, headache, runny nose, drainage and all. Woke up this morning and got in the shower, let all the congestion break up and felt wonderful.

Aside from a bit of weezing now and some coughing fits I'm almost over this damn thing.

Worst part is that I was supposed to have a nice quiet night with dinner and a movie with my girlfriend tonight. Waiting till tomorrow so I hopefully won't pass this on to her.

Replay wrote:Hey! I been boxing and slimming down hardcore. I joined a boxing gym.

Which one??? I am in the Burbank area an looking for one

Over here in the Middle East, the avian and swine flus have been a HUGE problem, especially the swine one in Egypt which I just left yesterday. We made sure we only ate very hard boiled eggs and very well cooked chicken (my wife's a nurse and read up on this on the WHO website to make sure before we left Israel last week). The Egyptian gov't has decided to slaughter all 300,000+ pigs and test the meat. If it's good, they'll freeze and sell it. If not, to the dump it goes.

Zeus wrote:Over here in the Middle East, the avian and swine flus have been a HUGE problem, especially the swine one in Egypt which I just left yesterday. We made sure we only ate very hard boiled eggs and very well cooked chicken (my wife's a nurse and read up on this on the WHO website to make sure before we left Israel last week). The Egyptian gov't has decided to slaughter all 300,000+ pigs and test the meat. If it's good, they'll freeze and sell it. If not, to the dump it goes.

The thing is though all the news outlets here have said now that this strain of H1N1 has NEVER been found in pigs. These names just go and fuck everything up.

You can't get swine flu from eating pork anyway... regardless of whether they were the initial carrier. Pig farmers may want to be wary, but pork eaters are fine. Flu doesn't transmit through meat.. this isn't mad cow. I don't blame the pork industry for trying to get everyone to just call it H1N1, cause it'll destroy them for NO REASON. People need to educate themselves cause shit like this gets sad.

During the avian flu scare a few years back did everyone flee in terror of pigeons?

Tessian wrote: During the avian flu scare a few years back did everyone flee in terror of pigeons?

I did.

There is no flu. Stop this bullshit. Shut up! Everybody just shut the fuck up! There is no flu. Repeat after me: There is NO FUCKING FLU! If I hear another somebody complain that they might get the flu, or mistake REGULAR flu symptoms for this stupid made up bullshit, I will personal skullfuck them with a big hunk of pig's feet.

Stop overcooking meat! Stop believing everything you hear on 24-hour news stations! Stop being afraid of eating pork! Stop pointing in horror when somebody sneezes! Stop banning handshakes because of a fear of germs! Stop treating people who have been to Mexico as lepers! Stop threatening to close down schools!

People die of heart attacks, car crashes, cancer, stroke, respiratory failures, diabetes, Alzheimer's disease, REGULAR flu, pneumonia, nephrosis, septicemia, AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, hate crimes, lightning strikes, drowning, poisoning, fires, Iraq, tropical diseases, suicide, measles, and choking while masterbating MORE than by swine/H1N1/R2D2/who-the-fuck-cares flu!

Let's focus on those problems first, and then maybe when this flu kills, I dunno, a couple of thousand people more than what the regular flu does, then we can take a look at it.

The CDC and WHO should be fucking ashamed at themselves and people there should be fired! So, when the next Super-Ebola virus that kills millions of people, are we going to elevate it to the same threat level as one that kills 7 people? You can't even get your goddamn numbers right! You know, there was a story about a wolf and some sheep, with a boy that got torn to shreds, which fits really fucking well right now. Do you know how many people stayed home for Katrina and died, because fuckers like you declare it's the apocalypse every time there's a storm that could blow leaves off of trees?! You are not doing your job! You are making it worse for everybody!

Sine's a carrier! GET HIM! PURGE HIM FROM THIS WORLD!!!!!!!!!!

No, I'm a motherfucking truthsayer!

And I think I'm seeing hallucinations, because I just saw Wolfie browsing the forum...

SineSwiper wrote:No, I'm a motherfucking truthsayer!

And I think I'm seeing hallucinations, because I just saw Wolfie browsing the forum...

Tough and fucking frustrating standing up on a rock and yelling at the top of your lungs trying to make people see logic or truth and they just utterly refuse to open their eyes, ain't it? Most people go through life on autoplay (think of the movie Click; especially Kate Beckinsale, mmmmmm :-) and just don't want to be in control/woken up.

Cognitive dissonance is much more prominent than it may initially seem

Wolfie does lurk on occasion he just sees no reason to post.

Anarky wrote:

Replay wrote:Hey! I been boxing and slimming down hardcore. I joined a boxing gym.

Which one??? I am in the Burbank area an looking for one

It's in Ventura, wouldn't work for you, too far.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/24/us ... index.html

Much as I got roundly reamed for panicking before, I'm still gonna post this as a warning. The swine flu has definitely spread worldwide, even if the numbers are small. The article is probably a little more scary than it needs to be, but there is indeed a pattern whereupon these viruses mutate and resurge in the fall. It happened in 1918, and the reason I keep harping on this is, in 1918 literally 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people died.

Now, there had obviously just been a horrendous war, there was a lot of famine, a lot of seriously injured and weakened people, and the flu loves that. We don't have that this time (thank God). All the same, it's a possibility we might want to mentally put a bit of thought into.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

I keep thinking that, if anything like this *does* happen, it would sure change the tune on the healthcare debate in a big hurry.

SineSwiper wrote:Let's focus on those problems first, and then maybe when this flu kills, I dunno, a couple of thousand people more than what the regular flu does, then we can take a look at it.

Sine, the problem with this attitude is, by the time a pandemic is strong enough to kill, say, four or five thousand people more than the "regular flu", it may be strong enough to kill four or five hundred thousand people more than the "regular flu" as well. I really would urge you not to be so devil-may-care about this whole thing. Disease prevention is not something you can so effectively do once you actually have an epidemic or genuine pandemic on your hands. That's what epidemics and pandemics *are*.

Noticed that this was an old thread, but thanks for letting me re-read one of my epic posts. My posts are AWESOME!

I just hope you're not home with a mask on in three weeks with the rest of us pontificating about how awesome your posts are. But, no point in borrowing trouble, and folks seem pretty healthy today, so, time for me to leave it alone for the present.

Let us consult an expert on this subject, shall we?

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... =swine_flu

That you still think that post is awesome is troubling.

Now that we're starting to enter flu season, yes, there is an actual risk that Swine flu will be a serious problem.

Zeus wrote:Let us consult an expert on this subject, shall we?

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... =swine_flu

Maddox the great, M.D. wrote:You're all idiots. If you've spent more than a few minutes worrying about swine flu, you are an idiot.

No, YOU are an idiot, Maddox. This kind of thing is one of the reasons that *I* worry about the swine flu, because a lot of people have gotten to be uncredentialed, snarky, mocking know-it-alls about it. I know it's Maddox' job (self-appointed job, anyway) to be an angry smarmy asshole about a whole variety of things, but the 1918 flu killed anywhere from between FIFTY and ONE. HUNDRED. MILLION. PEOPLE.

Let's stop there for a second. FIFTY TO ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE. Do we really want to laugh at history like that? For reference, World War II - the WHOLE THING EVERYWHERE - killed about seventy million. It doesn't mean that swine flu as a pandemic is GOING TO HAPPEN. But I don't think it's smart to blow off pandemic warnings the way he is. Maddox doesn't really know shit about medicine, as far as I know. He's certainly incapable of making a scientifically valid diagnosis about the potential lethality of a virus like this.

Now. There are plenty of good reasons to believe any coming future pandemics are much less likely than they were in 1918, and likely to be less severe as well. There's plenty of reason to think you'll survive the swine flu if you get it this time. For one, in 1918, a tremendous number of people were badly injured, weakened, fatigued, and psychologically damaged from World War I, and that more than anything else helps the plague pop off like a crate of two-dollar fireworks. We also have better nutrition, and better medicine and a lot of people are healthier. But we still have a massive number of people in America who eat junk food out their asses, don't take care of themselves, and do their best to pop pills when they get sick instead of taking bed rest and good care, and that is asking to breed a bad bug to a certain extent.

Personally, I think Maddox is a fucking clown to chortle about infectious disease and laugh about how he never gets sick. Disease has kicked a lot of people's asses over the years, and if it kicks his ass too at some point, I sure won't shed any tears. Again, I doubt there's any real reason to worry as opposed of being aware of things at present - but really, any time you look fate square in the eye like this and then piss on it, you're not being smart and cool the way Maddox thinks he is, you're being a real fool. I'm well aware that there are plenty of people who freak out about nothing, too - but, again, fifty to one hundred million people. I just urge people to think about what that was like before they start laughing about how stupid all disease scares are. It only takes one to mutate into a real plague before people stop laughing, and start praying.

KluYa wrote:My favourite quote so far regarding this issue - courtesy of my friend:

1 person dead from swine flu in the US... Meanwhile another 5,769 people have died from obesity in the past week. Maybe you people should forget about H1N1 and lay off the chalupas.

All that being said, Klu still speaks wisdom. Besides which, if people would lay off the chalupas, they'd be a lot less likely to get sick from everything in the first place.

Yeah, sure, but losing sleep over it is a waste. As part of the general population, all we should really be doing is keeping ourselves educated on the topic. If impending doom is coming then you losing sleep isn't going to help.

The 1918 flu pandemic killed (infected amounts I'm not so sure about) about a third of the population where my mother comes from. If something that horrible comes then stressing out about it will really only hurt us. Precautions should be taken, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be nervous, but don't get silly about it.

Also... I really wouldn't take anything Maddox says seriously. I mean anything. From there it's actually amusing. In high school. It's tolerably annoying from there on.

That said, I'm probably going to get my flu shot this year...

That post wins the platinum sanity award. I bask in its glow.

My comments in my rant above still ring true.

Kupek wrote:That you still think that post is awesome is troubling

Hold on, you think that me finding Maddox comical is troubling? This needs explanation

I was referring to Sine basking in his own, older post. He confuses aggressive attempts at humor with insight.

Sometimes there is truth in comedy.

Again, don't worry about it. You don't have it. Statistically speaking, you won't get it. It's not the 1920's, and there's no indication that this is the same type of strain that would do the same damage.

Kupek wrote:I was referring to Sine basking in his own, older post. He confuses aggressive attempts at humor with insight.

Fair enough

Replay wrote:

Zeus wrote:Let us consult an expert on this subject, shall we?

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... =swine_flu

Maddox the great, M.D. wrote:You're all idiots. If you've spent more than a few minutes worrying about swine flu, you are an idiot.

No, YOU are an idiot, Maddox. This kind of thing is one of the reasons that *I* worry about the swine flu, because a lot of people have gotten to be uncredentialed, snarky, mocking know-it-alls about it. I know it's Maddox' job (self-appointed job, anyway) to be an angry smarmy asshole about a whole variety of things, but the 1918 flu killed anywhere from between FIFTY and ONE. HUNDRED. MILLION. PEOPLE.

Let's stop there for a second. FIFTY TO ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE. Do we really want to laugh at history like that? For reference, World War II - the WHOLE THING EVERYWHERE - killed about seventy million. It doesn't mean that swine flu as a pandemic is GOING TO HAPPEN. But I don't think it's smart to blow off pandemic warnings the way he is. Maddox doesn't really know shit about medicine, as far as I know. He's certainly incapable of making a scientifically valid diagnosis about the potential lethality of a virus like this.

Now. There are plenty of good reasons to believe any coming future pandemics are much less likely than they were in 1918, and likely to be less severe as well. There's plenty of reason to think you'll survive the swine flu if you get it this time. For one, in 1918, a tremendous number of people were badly injured, weakened, fatigued, and psychologically damaged from World War I, and that more than anything else helps the plague pop off like a crate of two-dollar fireworks. We also have better nutrition, and better medicine and a lot of people are healthier. But we still have a massive number of people in America who eat junk food out their asses, don't take care of themselves, and do their best to pop pills when they get sick instead of taking bed rest and good care, and that is asking to breed a bad bug to a certain extent.

Personally, I think Maddox is a fucking clown to chortle about infectious disease and laugh about how he never gets sick. Disease has kicked a lot of people's asses over the years, and if it kicks his ass too at some point, I sure won't shed any tears. Again, I doubt there's any real reason to worry as opposed of being aware of things at present - but really, any time you look fate square in the eye like this and then piss on it, you're not being smart and cool the way Maddox thinks he is, you're being a real fool. I'm well aware that there are plenty of people who freak out about nothing, too - but, again, fifty to one hundred million people. I just urge people to think about what that was like before they start laughing about how stupid all disease scares are. It only takes one to mutate into a real plague before people stop laughing, and start praying.

You REALLY need to buy and read this book. It's written by a sociologist so it's not like it's some nutjob with his own personal opinion and no grounding in actual base knowledge of human behviour to back it up

http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Fear-Amer ... 173&sr=8-1

This is what I have to say about Swine Flu:

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/south ... pUSGw.cspx

Zeus wrote: You REALLY need to buy and read this book. It's written by a sociologist so it's not like it's some nutjob with his own personal opinion and no grounding in actual base knowledge of human behviour to back it up

http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Fear-Amer ... 173&sr=8-1

No, I don't, Zeus. I'm over this whole thing, from now on I'm letting the CDC do its job so I don't get you or anyone else in my face telling me what a panic artist I am. I've never "panicked" over a teenage homicide, the drug war, or indeed anything else mentioned on that book jacket cover in my life. I don't particularly listen to politicians when they tell me I ought to be afraid of something, and indeed I didn't "freak out" about SARS or just about anything else in recent memory either. I made a call that this one could have been different, if I end up being wrong, I'm wrong, and that's spectacular. It aggravates me that you would point me at a book that seems like it would do a lot more good in the hands of a neurotic housewife who ACTUALLY might freak out about anything listed on that book's cover. I guess after all these years, you still don't know me very well.

If you're with me on this, Sine, just delete this thread. There's no point and purpose to it anymore.

In case anyone doesn't know, I wrote that article I posted. Co-wrote it, really, but I wrote the best bits.