The Shrine

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Well, Christ, that puts things in perspective. I overheard an undergrad, outside her building and within earshot of my apartment window, arguing with her friends about whether or not she's ready for an abortion. Suddenly my problems don't seem so serious.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>So....ya gonna watch Matrix tonight or what?</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Can't. Simulations weekly assignment is due tomorrow. I'm going to be doing it hardcore all day. I was thinking of trying to organize a few CS people for Friday.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Good luck. Eat fish for brain food. Oh shoot....yer a veggieman. Ginko-biloba! BRAIN FOOD in a capsule!</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Impact; text-align: left; '>One of my sisters friends is 18, in high school and pregnant. Talk about a walk-off homerun, all it takes is once kids, so wrap it up.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Nobody gets pregnant nowadays unless they want to, there's way to much stuff out there to stop that.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I don't agree with that generalization at all. There may be tons of products out there to stop pregnancy, but it doesn't make everybody having sex smart or responsible enough to use them.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Exactly. What Eric said is like saying "Everyone who smokes wants lung cancer."</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You're so dang liberal.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You make it sound like it's difficult. How old do you have to be to know what a condom is? How many times are you gonna have raw unprotected sex and assume everything will be fine? I mean seriously...</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>They're still responsible for their actions, but that doesn't mean they literaly wanted that result.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>OK, maybe my wording was a bit off, maybe they don't WANY kids, but geez, how can you be so...so..there's just not a word to describe it.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>OK, maybe my wording was a bit off, maybe they don't WANT kids, but geez, how can you be so...so..there's just not a word to describe it.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>True, but the education is clearly there and the means are easily attainable (often free), so it all boils down to choice</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>But they are clearly aware of the consequences of smoking (lung cancer being one), so it's simply a choice and they can't complain if they get it (or deserve pity)</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>But they know that there's a possibility their actions will result in that. It's like saying someone who shot someone in the chest and killed them could say "I shot him in the chest but I didn't MEAN to kill him" even thought it's a possibility</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Yeah, ok, Zeus. I can see you now - "Sorry, Grandma, I know you're dying and all, but I have no pity for you because this was your choice. Tough shit"</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Oblivious? Irresponsible? Naive? Dumb?</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>And if that's the case, then that's the case. Your example doesn't really work, because the probability of surviving a shotgun wound to the chest is tiny.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Yeah, I mean, it's not like their body has a physical dependence on it or anything.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Oh I agree completely. But there are a lot of dumb sluts out there who could give a shit about fucking safely.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Obviously, I was referring more to the last 10-20 years and the people who started at that time, since that's when all the anti-smoking propoganda came in and the masses were truly informed. If my buddy who's been smoking for the last 6 years develops lung cancer, I would feel no pity for him</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Ah, now that's where a combination of desire, willpower, and a multitude of aids on the market come into play. Simply saying "it's hard 'cause it's addictive" just isn't good enough</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I came up with the example in 3.5 seconds. If you really want to play that game, then it's the same as a football player suing another for a clean hit on the field 'cause he was injured and can't play anymore. There's always the possibility...</div>

<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Shit can still happen, even if you follow the instructions to the letter.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>And saying "They know the risks, they deserve what they get" has no regard for the addiction.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Semantic?</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Sure, sure. Why don't you just admit that blame is more than a 1-dimensional concept? Read a tragedy - it'll do you some good.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>The risk of addiction is so well documented that you really shouldn't get sympathy for getting addicted IMO.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, I've never read a book in my life. In fact, I'm barely literate. Let's just keep it a matter of opinion and not personalize it. My father died of a heart attack due to smoking, FYI</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, I've never read a book in my life. In fact, I'm barely literate. Let's just keep it a matter of opinion and not personalize it. My father died of a heart attack and a large part was due to smoking, FYI</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Someone who is not smart/responsible enough to have safe sex in the first place is going to have unprotected sex and assume everything will be fine as many times as is necessary to get someone pregnant.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Someone who is not responsible enough to have safe sex in the first place is going to have unprotected sex and assume everything will be fine as many times as is necessary to get someone pregnant (or get an STD).</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "arial narrow"; text-align: left; padding: 0% 5% 0% 5%; '>Mitten?</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Awww, Zeus, come on now. You know I love ya : ) My point was half-facetious anyway. Sorry about your dad, btw.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Fluh!</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Not really taken personally, I was trying to make a point. But thanks. Now, back to the arguement. I just personally believe that if you do something while knowing the consequences fully, you shouldn't get any sympathy for those consequences coming to be</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>I don't know of a single person who could honestly say that they've never done something wrong while being fully aware of the consequences. It's part of the human condition. We do stupid things sometimes.

Of course, this most certainly <I>doesn't</i> mean that we can't be held responsible for such choices. And it doesn't mean that we don't deserve to pay the price for the foolish things we do. But you are treating activities such as these as though they are completely foreign to our experiences. We can all understand how people can do such things (despite maybe not understanding why). Now I'm not saying we should all go out and hold a candlelight vigil for all the people who have died of smoking. But if someone close to me gets sick/dies from smoking, there's no way that I would (or even could) simply write him/her off as a "fool who shoulda known better." And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I don't think you would either, despite what you say.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>That's exactly what I would have said had I been smart enough to think it.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Ah, yes, they are. But in this particular case, I would disagree. It IS simply black and white, there are really no ambiguities. There is absolutely no way you coulda grown up in the last 20 years and NOT known cigs cause cancer and such..</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>But you would have discounted the possibility of those terms being "one-dimensional" or "black and white" in certain circumstances. Sometimes, they just are. IMO, in this particular case, they are</div>