The Shrine

So, for the fourth time since I've moved here, one of our cars happened to be unlocked, and somebody came in the middle of the night and stole some shit. This time it was Shellie's phone. Cops can't really do anything about it.

YET I HAD A FUCKING GPS LOCATION! And I called the guy and the moron answered. And I had phone logs.

Yeah, I knew where the phone was, but since it was an apt complex, there was no way to know exactly which apt it was. Even if the cops did find the phone, the perp could just say that he found it. Since it was a misdemeanor, they couldn't even arrest the guy if I tried to stage a meeting with this guy.

At this point, I am reviewing options, besides just being more diligent in locking our cars. Night-time motion sensor flood lights could be a deterrent but I have neighbors close by to consider. However, I'm thinking that decoy laptops could be a better option.

A decoy laptop (like a cheap netbook) could be loaded with LoJack and maybe webcam software to automatically send to pictures to an FTP site. Since the laptop is valued at over $300, it would be classified as a Class D felony to steal.

I'm asking the LMPD about the idea to see if I need anything else to arrest a potential thief.

This is an issue in my parents neighborhood and they've just decided to keep valuables inside the house and never in the cars. Really, I imagine this is the best thing to do. The only things my parents keep in their cars nowadays are reusable grocery bags and sunglasses.

But, yeah, make sure to lock your cars. I can't believe sometimes what I see in cars that are completely abandoned with doors unlocked or windows down. Car keys once. I'm no thief, but I wanted to get post it notes and post things on valuables like "I could have taken this and no one would have ever known" or some such. It's truly sad we can't be more trusting but leaving things as simple as dorm doors or even house doors unlocked even when you're home can lead to horrible mishaps. I've woken up to strangers sleeping next to the radiator outside of my bedroom once. I've also had (in the same house) someone who was drunk and had pissed themselves go into a roommates room, take off his piss-soaked jeans, and decide to wander through the rest of our bedrooms.

The lesson I learned was leaving shit unlocked invites morons in to fuck with your shit.

Edit: As for the decoy laptop - are you sure you want to invite increased contact with a criminal element? Just take the precautions and things should be fine.

A decoy laptop is a TERRIBLE idea. You want to ENTICE thieves to break into your car? You're just going to attract further attention, and a broken window AND the laptop will cost you way more than the cell phone did. Even if your plan works if the cops get one WHIFF that you planned this to catch someone you will be sitting in lockup next to the guy you caught.

No, this isn't something to go vigilante over; it's reckless, expensive, and dangerous. What you do is learn a lesson from this-- do NOT leave valuables in the car and ALWAYS lock the car when you exit it, no matter the duration. It's just a behavior change you have to learn and adhere to, but it's worth it and really the only thing you can do and it's EASY.

There is no other option to review-- you remember to lock your car and remove anything valuable out of it. Set a daily alarm after dinner if you have to and go out, relock both cars and make sure your phones / GPS / laptops / etc are not in them. This isn't an issue technology can help you with; your laptop idea will get you arrested or worse.

Tessian wrote:A decoy laptop is a TERRIBLE idea. You want to ENTICE thieves to break into your car? You're just going to attract further attention, and a broken window AND the laptop will cost you way more than the cell phone did.

Really? I've already had about $1500 stolen in the past five years. The laptop was a company laptop, but it was still something I had to file a report and it's not good for my company rep to have to get a new laptop since it was stolen. (Yeah, it was stupid to keep a laptop in the car; lesson learned.)

However, the other stuff: a radar detector and camera, a car stereo, and now a phone (charging in the car). Hell, some of that is SUPPOSED to be in the car. We're pretty diligent about locking our doors, but sometimes we forget. These guys must be searching on a very regular basis, because they seem to catch us when one of the cars are unlocked.

Hell, I don't even care about the items any more. I want these fuckers PUT IN JAIL! By letting people steal shit and get away with it, it's turning this stuff into a full business and enabling repeat theft. I've owned a laptop that we suspect was hot, and my dad thinks his laptop make have been hot, too. We aren't even trying to buy stolen shit, but this sort of thing is popular and widespread. I want to live in a neighborhood where I don't have to worry about if some asshole is going to steal my shit near the same house my kid is sleeping. Sure, the criminal element is always out there, but if the cops are just going to shrug their shoulders every time I file a police report, I'm going to give them all of the evidence they need to arrest somebody.

Tessian wrote:Even if your plan works if the cops get one WHIFF that you planned this to catch someone you will be sitting in lockup next to the guy you caught.

Are you braindead? What law says that I would somehow be locked in jail? For one, I'm actually asking the cops for advice. Two, nothing I am doing is illegal in any way. Not even entrapment laws apply here because I am not forcing anybody to steal a laptop.

Sine, I was very careful not to use insults in my reply and I would appreciate you show me the same courtesy.

You really didn't understand what I said did you? The act of setting a trap for a would-be thief with the intent of catching them in the act is vigilantism. Vigilantism is illegal. Some states would throw you in jail just as quick as the thief, but at the best you'd end up destroying your own case. Any half competent lawyer can get that case thrown out because a civilian set a trap for the thief, and without said trap the defendant wouldn't have acted the way they did.

Like I said-- easy fix is to set an alarm to remember to check the locks on your cars every night. It's not that hard, and I know both your cars are fairly new so all you'd have to do is stand at the door with both clickers, listen for the beeps, and that's it. As for a bigger change-- coordinate a neighborhood watch if you want; I'm sure your cop friends would love to help with that. There are plenty of things you CAN do, and I understand you wanting to protect your family and everything, but laying a trap is still a terrible idea.

Tessian wrote:You really didn't understand what I said did you? The act of setting a trap for a would-be thief with the intent of catching them in the act is vigilantism. Vigilantism is illegal. Some states would throw you in jail just as quick as the thief, but at the best you'd end up destroying your own case.

"A vigilante is someone who illegally punishes a criminal, or participates in a group which metes out illegal punishment to criminals."

One, not illegal. Two, if went to the guy's house and beat on his door, arrested him, and threw him in prison myself, THAT is vigilantism. This is merely collecting evidence for the police to arrest him themselves. Hell, all I'm doing is leaving a laptop in my car, so that if my car gets broken into again, he'll take that laptop, and I'll have plenty of pictures and IP addresses to get him arrested.

Tessian wrote:Any half competent lawyer can get that case thrown out because a civilian set a trap for the thief, and without said trap the defendant wouldn't have acted the way they did.

"Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense which would be illegal and the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit."

That last part is the important part. If somebody is getting into my car and steals something, it's not entrapment. He was going to steal shit, anyway. (The above is not a legal definition, but the law follows that same type of definition.)

I have no idea why you're up in arms over this idea...

Actually, Tessian, I don't see how what Sine's proposing is illegal. He's not, as far as I can tell, trying to physically arrest the person. Vigilantism is when one, as the saying goes, takes the law into their own hands. It's when someone tries to act as a law enforcement agent, or tries to mete out their own extra-legal punishment.

Also, I don't think it's possible for a civilian to commit entrapment.

With that said, I still think it's a horrible idea. You said you sometimes forget to lock your doors. Well, don't forget. Don't leave valuable things in your car.

Kupek wrote:With that said, I still think it's a horrible idea. You said you sometimes forget to lock your doors. Well, don't forget. Don't leave valuable things in your car.

Locked or unlocked, I don't want people running from house to house to steal stuff.

I agree, you shouldn't have to lock your doors. It's kind of silly that there are so many places that it should be a necessity to keep criminals out.

Where I live, people generally keep their doors unlocked. Even though there have been some break in sprees; always during the tourist season, and almost always someone from Ontario. I thought it was crazy at first when I came here a little over a decade ago. After living here a while I have begun to see it another way, that where I lived before (Vancouver and Toronto) were the crazy societies where it is a necessity to actually lock and secure your property heavily to prevent crime from happening to you (not that people are crazy to lock their doors, that's just logical. Crazy that this dishonest element exists in society).

Maybe the criminal needs money and has no other way to make it except through crime... Who knows, this sort of stuff doesn't happen in a lot of places; and not just places like Saudi Arabia either, but also a lot of parts of North America and countries like Japan. Usually the reason why you lock the doors is to keep out unwanted/annoying visitors.

SineSwiper wrote:Locked or unlocked, I don't want people running from house to house to steal stuff.

I agree and I understand, but I don't think what you're trying to do will be effective, and can imagine it going horribly wrong.

I think one could still make the argument that it is vigilantism, but even if that's the wrong term I still don't think you can go around doing that. There is a reason you don't see people laying traps like this for criminals-- the important distinction is that you are purchasing the laptop and leaving it in the car with the SOLE PURPOSE of letting someone steal it so you can catch them. If that's not technically illegal, it'll surely get your case thrown out if the defense finds out. Hell, chances are even with all this the cops STILL won't care. No police department has a "Electronics Theft Unit" so LoJack or not they most likely do not have the man hours to waste looking for your $400 laptop.

I'll say it one more time: Remind yourself to lock your doors, put together a Neighborhood Watch, anything else would be a much more effective and safer than what you're proposing.

Tessian wrote:Hell, chances are even with all this the cops STILL won't care. No police department has a "Electronics Theft Unit" so LoJack or not they most likely do not have the man hours to waste looking for your $400 laptop.

They don't even have to do much. The LoJack service finds the IP Addresses, and even does the subpoenas for you. (I don't think police are required to do subpoenas; just a police report record and a judge to authorize it.) Then, LoJack coordinates with the cops to give them the address, and the police go to the prep's house.

After the laptop is stolen, I merely need to file a police report, report to LoJack that it's stolen, and they do the rest. Also, I'm sure once I get the laptop, I'll be using it as a car laptop, anyway, but now it's secured in such a way that thieves can't steal it without getting caught. LoJack even has a firmware version that survives OS and HD reinstalls.

I'm surprised we don't have a service like this at work. Work laptops get ripped off all the time, and it's a crime that we don't have any defense over.

Tessian wrote:I'll say it one more time: Remind yourself to lock your doors, put together a Neighborhood Watch, anything else would be a much more effective and safer than what you're proposing.

Hey, I've had to put up with this for 5 years. You act like an "alarm" is going to help, but it would just end up being something I ignore daily. I'm not a part of any neighborhood group and rarely talk with my neighbors. Besides, the guy would be gone by the time the police arrived.

I still baffled at what the big deal is. I'm merely keeping a laptop in my car which is more secure and more likely to prove that somebody stole it. That's it.

SineSwiper wrote:
I'm surprised we don't have a service like this at work. Work laptops get ripped off all the time, and it's a crime that we don't have any defense over.

It's much easier for a company to simply write off the loss of a dozen or so laptops every year than pay for a lojack subscription for their entire laptop fleet. The only risk is of leaking confidential data on the laptop, which is why my company started encrypting all laptops. Once that's taken care of, having to spend $800 on a new laptop is nothing.

SineSwiper wrote: Hey, I've had to put up with this for 5 years. You act like an "alarm" is going to help, but it would just end up being something I ignore daily. I'm not a part of any neighborhood group and rarely talk with my neighbors. Besides, the guy would be gone by the time the police arrived.

So it's a bad idea because you won't take the responsibility of remembering to lock your car seriously? Not knowing your neighbors is also part of the problem which is why if you're serious about doing something about it a neighborhood group would be ideal.

SineSwiper wrote: I still baffled at what the big deal is. I'm merely keeping a laptop in my car which is more secure and more likely to prove that somebody stole it. That's it.

You're spending a lot of money on a plan that, if anything, will ENTICE a would-be thief to break into your car. The more valuable items you leave in the car, the more likely someone is to take them. A cell phone only a few would find worth it, but a laptop sitting there? You may very well have the next thief not wait until you forgot to lock it-- they'll just smash the window at 2am and bolt. A $100 cell phone isn't worth smashing into a locked car to get, but a $400 laptop very well might be.

Do you really think even if your plan goes exactly according to plan that that'll be it, you'll be safe again and not have to worry about remembering to lock your car? No, you'll at best get one kid in jail, have something to brag about, and then 6 months later another phone is stolen out of your car.

Simply put, it's a bad idea for many reasons... and this time I'm assuming that things goes exactly according to plan, which isn't even very likely. It most likely won't work, or it'll cause more damage than it was worth, and best case it won't actually protect you or your family.

Just lock the darned car.

not enough lasers in any of these plans.

bovine wrote:not enough lasers in any of these plans.

And if GI Joe taught us anything is that all problems can be solved with a well-placed laser gun shot....or 2000 of them :-)

I saw just set the trap, keep an eye out for him, and when you catch him. Beat the fucking shit out of him. Bring a sword in case he has a gun, swords > guns. If the gun is attached to his arm though, you're fucked.