The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • The American Dream, as a theme

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #144766  by Don
 Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:23 pm
I was just looking at random stuff and I noticed that The American Dream (anyone can do anything if you worked hard) is generally absent in Eastern culture stuff, and unsurprisingly tends to be more prevalent in Western stuff. Most Eastern stuff, whether it's book, movies, games, or manga, you'll see a lot of justification along the line of 'he's the chosen one.' In fact in some stuff you have to be the chosen ones just to do anything. For example in Suikoden (the novel, not the game), all the 108 Stars of Destiny are supposed to be reincarnation of celestial entities (some more important than others), so even the guy who has 3 lines in the novel still has some kind of divine power backing him up.

Now obviously this isn't absolute, but generally Western stuff has more than just 'chosen one' as the only basis. Sure there is no shortage of the one man army but it's not like Rambo is the way he was because when he borned the heaven shook and the earth trumbled. Generally speaking your average Western hero tend to be someone at the peak of his profession and got there presumably by hard work + skill instead of just being born as the world's top whatever. Even for something like The Matrix, people besides Neo sure aren't anyone special, and there's been more than one "The One" anyway so even that alone isn't enough.

I remember there was a guy assessing the difference between Jiang Yong and Gou Long's works, both considered very influential figures in modern Chinese literature, and it's something like: "Jiang Yong taught us that if you're the chosen one you can throw fireball, jump across buildings, and get all the girls you want even if you're some nerdy bumpkin. Gou Long taught us that being the chosen one isn't all it's hyped up to be." Now that doesn't necessarily say who is better, but certainly Jiang Yong's work is very reflective of Chinese literature.
 #144768  by Flip
 Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:51 pm
That is a great observation and totally true. In fact, i would go as far as to say that whenever there is 'chosen one' type main characters in western literature that we immediately find it incredible, extremely cheesy, and dismissable.

Of course you have your Luke Skywalkers every so often, but the western public would rather attach themselves to the Han Solo's.
 #144918  by ManaMan
 Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:25 am
There's a large strain of "choosen one" thought in the west too that people often overlook--just look at Calvinism. Calvin (not the comic character) said that you are pre-destined from eternity to either be saved or to burn in hell. Millions of Americans still belong to Calvinistic churches even though they might not realize it.
 #144920  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:33 am
Look at the top grossing films in the US. There's LOTS of chosen one themes; Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc...

The reason people liked Han Solo more than Luke Skywalker was because Han was a much more masculine character. For example, Aragorn in Lord of the Rings was the chosen one, and Frodo and the Hobbits were the normal people thrown into it (even if they are Hobbits), but people preferred to identify with Aragorn rather than the Hobbits.
 #144935  by Don
 Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:37 pm
Most western stuff that involves the chosen one generally still has the chosen one doing more than just doing everything entirely by the virtue of being the chosen one.

Also the chosen one tends to stop at the '1'. Again it's not like Suikoden where every 108 Stars of Destiny are essentially the chosen ones. Yes some of them are more chosen than others (like the guys with the Heaven stars, and obviously the Tenkai (sp?) star because he's leader) but the point is that they are all chosen ones.
 #145327  by RentCavalier
 Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:43 am
Yeah. In a way, this is why the Western world decided to take over shit and the Eastern world didn't. For most of history, the great powers of Europe and China were equal in both manpower and technology. What stopped them? Culture. And America is the biggest baddest country of them all. Why? Because we looked at the sprawling frontier, stretching far as the eye could see, and said "That will be mine. Not God's. Mine. This was given to me." And then we did.
 #145331  by Julius Seeker
 Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:33 am
So no one from the East has ever forged an Empire? =P

No one from Europe ever used the justification "This shall be God's."? =P
 #145338  by Mully
 Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:58 am
I was disappointed, I thought you meant theme to the forum.