The Shrine

The US drug war is fairly pathetic. Obviously tougher measures need to be put in place. Other countries have been successful. Just regulate the less dangerous ones, and execute the remaining illegal drug dealers. You'll see a change =)

You mean like the military action we've tried in Columbia? Didn't work. Will never work. Drug penalties are already harsh enough and is by far the most wasteful use of our prison budgets.

Besides, people have a weird idea of what is "hard drugs". All drugs started out as some sort of useful medical application. (Though, LSD was more of an experiment with the CIA.)

I've tried coke and meth. I'm still here, and still have all of my teeth. Really didn't get the point of either, since it was basically speed, or something like an energy drink. Probably wouldn't ever try needle drugs, but that's mostly because needle use is pretty dangerous, anyway.

All drugs should be legalized and taxed. I think we're not in the climate to do so, but we ARE in the climate to legalize marijuana, which is a good first step.

Legalizing stuff will just make it simple for people to get; it won't fix the problem - It's like surrendering to the fact that we're going to have junkies and wastes of flesh in our society. On the other hand, hanging drug dealers will reduce drug usage. Not in Columbia, but in the United States. Do you guys have the stomach for that kind of action?

At least it's better than the alternatives, such as legalizing, taxing, and dealing with the problem out in the open. God wouldn't like that at all......

Julius Seeker wrote:Legalizing stuff will just make it simple for people to get; it won't fix the problem - It's like surrendering to the fact that we're going to have junkies and wastes of flesh in our society. On the other hand, hanging drug dealers will reduce drug usage. Not in Columbia, but in the United States. Do you guys have the stomach for that kind of action?

That's just fucking stupid. Attitudes like that are the reason why we've been in this mess for the past 80 years. I seriously think you're just trolling.

You're basically saying that we can "get rid of junkies". There is no such thing as an absolute. You can not get rid of every single junkie, just like you can't get rid of every single pirate or every single alcoholic. Sure, you could get it down to really low numbers, but then the country would be a total police state with a single-minded focus of getting rid of drugs. Even with our rampant spending on the DEA and other useless agencies, we're not that stupid.

And again, if we treated it like alcohol, used similar laws as alcohol, provide abuse treatment like alcoholism, we would be much much better off. Hell, maybe we should use the lessons of when we made alcohol illegal to tell us how prohibition of drugs is completely idiotic. The boundaries between what drug is legal and what is not don't make any sense. Pot is, in every sense of the word, better than alcohol. There is no aspect of alcohol that somehow beats pot: medically, socially, psychologically, or otherwise.

Seek responded to my post, of course he's trolling.....or not actually trying to understand a point of view that's not his, which is normal.

At the end of the day, it's too emotional a topic to ever bring logic into the equation. It'll never get better as far as I'm concerned

There are too many factors and cycles that work into the problem to even merit a "legalize it" conversation. Let alone the chances of military intervention ever meaning a damn thing. Certain people are always going to be down and out, who can blame them for looking for a way out? And really the only way for them to get away is sometimes drugs. This barely speaks to the fact that it's nearly impossible for minorities born into certain communities to break the cycle and get out.

I very much doubt anyone with any sort of intelligence ever thought the war on drugs would ever be successful. It was stupid just to advertise it as such. If something is going to make someone money then someone somewhere is going to figure out how to profit off it. The only real way to even begin a war on drugs is to completely change the human condition.

Lolz good luck with that.

Well, I was never one for capital punishment myself anyway, I wanted to see if you actually had an idea for reducing drug usage or if you were just another pro-drug activist who disregards the lives lost and ruined by drug addiction. Instead you think the anti-drug stance is stupid without considering how a harder approach is much more effective.

Singapore executes drug dealers, and has a very low rate of drug abuse as a result.

Sweden has a very stiff drug policy as well; no tolerance for drug usage. Instead we target users by performing random drug tests throughout the country and give people up to 10 years for offenses; including marijuana. There is a much lower demand for drugs in Sweden as a result. Sweden has almost no major drug abuse today, and very little drug usage. The country has also risen up to become one of the best places in the world to live. The US could also adopt this policy if they want an effective solution to drugs.

Otherwise I don't see this "war" on drugs as being a real war at all. Just legalizing stuff and then putting all the junkies in rehab, and treating all the related health issues, is going to cost the US a lot more than just 25 billion a year. A person has to want to quit in order for them to be successful, otherwise you're going to have people in and out of rehab for their lives.

Julius Seeker wrote:Well, I was never one for capital punishment myself anyway, I wanted to see if you actually had an idea for reducing drug usage or if you were just another pro-drug activist who disregards the lives lost and ruined by drug addiction. Instead you think the anti-drug stance is stupid without considering how a harder approach is much more effective.

...

Otherwise I don't see this "war" on drugs as being a real war at all. Just legalizing stuff and then putting all the junkies in rehab, and treating all the related health issues, is going to cost the US a lot more than just 25 billion a year. A person has to want to quit in order for them to be successful, otherwise you're going to have people in and out of rehab for their lives.

I'm not going to even entertain the ideas about "killing all of the dealers". So, I'll focus on the other thoughts.

One, you seem to think that the War on (some) Drugs has costs in the billions. No. Try trillions.



So, by these estimates since from 1981 to 2000, there has been 7 trillion dollars spent or otherwise lost on the War on (some) Drugs. There has likely been another several trillion dollars spent/lost from 2000 to today.

Two, people need rehab whether it's illegal or not. Throwing them in jail is not rehab. So, you're basically saying that because there are costs in actually FIXING the rehab problem (instead of tossing them in jail to waste money and ignore the problem), it's a bad thing? Yes, let's spend some money on the people that need rehab. A couple of billion dollars on abuse issues is a good thing.

Let's not be naive about abusive people. There is a certain subset of people that will abuse things. If you take away the drugs, they will abuse alcohol. If you take away that, they will gamble, or cheat on their spouse, or whatever. There's an addiction clinic for every type of abuse out there, and people themselves are not exactly going to stick with only one addiction.

Yes, there may be an increased availability to drugs. (Though, drugs right now are easy to get. If I wanted to get something, anything, I can make a few phone calls and have it today.) But, the only people that are going to be a problem with drugs are the abusive types. I don't mess with drugs any more, because I simply don't have the time for them, and I have a kid to take care of. Many other people are the same, or they don't want to try them altogether, or they do occasionally use them without any ill effects. The abuse stories are the exceptions, but the media and this whole war wants to pretend it's the rule.