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The Shrine
- Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
It also may have something to do with our resident conspiracy theorist taking a leave. And I gotta admit, I avoided Daily Stuph quite a bit when that stuff was going on.
Always seems to happen a couple times a year.
-Insert Inspiring Quote-
Problem is in essence we basically all agree with each other on most things political. The only thing that we really differ on that I've noticed is gun control with the only universally agreed upon thing being that the mentally ill probably shouldn't have them.
The GOP theory thread could basically be renamed "This Election Cycle's GOP Hate thread"
Edit 1/2: I got my should/shouldn't mixed up lol
The GOP theory thread could basically be renamed "This Election Cycle's GOP Hate thread"
Edit 1/2: I got my should/shouldn't mixed up lol
Last edited by Shrinweck on Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I've essentially stated I support Trump, tried to allude to me being racist, etc...
I can't do it alone folks -- you people need to start calling me out!
(Whaddya mean..."you people"...?)
I can't do it alone folks -- you people need to start calling me out!
(Whaddya mean..."you people"...?)
I wouldn't believe it until you moved here, became a citizen, and joined his campaign :D
Supporting a candidate for the lulz isn't something I necessarily disagree with.
Supporting a candidate for the lulz isn't something I necessarily disagree with.
Yeah sorry, only he who shall not be named takes your trolling seriously. :pkali o. wrote:I've essentially stated I support Trump, tried to allude to me being racist, etc...
I can't do it alone folks -- you people need to start calling me out!
(Whaddya mean..."you people"...?)
We do?Shrinweck wrote:Problem is in essence we basically all agree with each other on most things political.
I was there on that fateful day, were you?
In the scheme of things yeah. None of us really seem to believe in super contradictory things. There aren't any raging debates on things that seem to get people's blood boiling like abortion, fair wages, letting sick poor people die, the perks of xenophobia, etc.
To put it another way - I don't remember one person being even remotely for Romney. There was no "But he does have a point when it comes to those fucking gay people." Or any of his other bullshit.
To put it another way - I don't remember one person being even remotely for Romney. There was no "But he does have a point when it comes to those fucking gay people." Or any of his other bullshit.
Dear Lord, people. Am I actually ever going to be able to LEAVE...and not end up with a bizarre feeling that I have to keep an eye on a community which still hates me and talks about me behind my back once again? 
A feeling that seems to be justified by this thread, I might add.
I am far from Voldemort - but yes, speak my name here, and I may show up again. That has a great deal to do with the fact that, sadly, it's quite dangerous in our present society to allow others to define one in one's absence. That is particularly true in cases like this - a community I founded, then gave away to a man who apparently looks down on me now and hates me, and appointed a moderator who treats me much the same way. (It seems I gave it to someone who does not bother to show up here more than once a year or so, at that. Ironically, I only gave away the site in the first place because of life changes that concerned me that I'd only be able to show up and moderate once a week, and felt you all deserved better.)
This community has now accumulated a track record of YEARS of feeling the occasional need to talk about me behind my back in my absence, and that continues to be odd to me.
When I founded this site, I did so by starting topics of conversation on things that interested me. I had more traffic that first DAY than is going on here now, sad to say. I cannot for the life of me believe NOTHING is going on with some of you via interests, hobbies, world events, media, games, and so on that is worth talking about more than referring to me in my absence yet again as a "conspiracy theorist" and "he-who-shall-not-be-named".
If you would like to see a more active community - talk about ANYTHING in a positive, excited manner. Talk about art; talk about life. Talk about games, movies, books, music, poetry...talk about the kind of better world you'd like to see, revolutionary idea as that may be.
You may also sit around reminiscing and talking shit about me for the next twenty years, if that does not work for some of you. But that won't make the Shrine what it used to be, I promise you all that.
A feeling that seems to be justified by this thread, I might add.I am far from Voldemort - but yes, speak my name here, and I may show up again. That has a great deal to do with the fact that, sadly, it's quite dangerous in our present society to allow others to define one in one's absence. That is particularly true in cases like this - a community I founded, then gave away to a man who apparently looks down on me now and hates me, and appointed a moderator who treats me much the same way. (It seems I gave it to someone who does not bother to show up here more than once a year or so, at that. Ironically, I only gave away the site in the first place because of life changes that concerned me that I'd only be able to show up and moderate once a week, and felt you all deserved better.)
This community has now accumulated a track record of YEARS of feeling the occasional need to talk about me behind my back in my absence, and that continues to be odd to me.
When I founded this site, I did so by starting topics of conversation on things that interested me. I had more traffic that first DAY than is going on here now, sad to say. I cannot for the life of me believe NOTHING is going on with some of you via interests, hobbies, world events, media, games, and so on that is worth talking about more than referring to me in my absence yet again as a "conspiracy theorist" and "he-who-shall-not-be-named".
If you would like to see a more active community - talk about ANYTHING in a positive, excited manner. Talk about art; talk about life. Talk about games, movies, books, music, poetry...talk about the kind of better world you'd like to see, revolutionary idea as that may be.
You may also sit around reminiscing and talking shit about me for the next twenty years, if that does not work for some of you. But that won't make the Shrine what it used to be, I promise you all that.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick Douglass
Actually only Oracle mentioned you and it was only as part of his hypothesis for why Daily Stuph is dead.Dear Lord, people. Am I actually ever going to be able to LEAVE...and not end up with a bizarre feeling that I have to keep an eye on a community which still hates me and talks about me behind my back once again?
I'm all for that. I tried to stimulate conversation here for about a month posting links every day or so. You can see in Daily Stuph that like 80% of the recent threads were started by ManaMan. I'd get a couple of responses but only one of two of the threads sparked any real conversation. I think people just have so many other outlets to interact with others on the internet (Facebook, Twitter, etc) that old message boards like this fall to the wayside. Add to that that most of us have "lives" which, at least for me, was something I didn't have in high school back when this place was hopping.When I founded this site, I did so by starting topics of conversation on things that interested me. I had more traffic that first DAY than is going on here now, sad to say. I cannot for the life of me believe NOTHING is going on with some of you via interests, hobbies, world events, media, games, and so on that is worth talking about more than referring to me in my absence yet again as a "conspiracy theorist" and "he-who-shall-not-be-named".
If you would like to see a more active community - talk about ANYTHING in a positive, excited manner. Talk about art; talk about life. Talk about games, movies, books, music, poetry...talk about the kind of better world you'd like to see, revolutionary idea as that may be.
You may also sit around reminiscing and talking shit about me for the next twenty years, if that does not work for some of you. But that won't make the Shrine what it used to be, I promise you all that.
Oracle is right that there are still discussions going on in Gamethought. That's good (and to be expected on a gaming board). I'm not currently playing Fallout 4 though... maybe I should get on that. Need a new system though.
Replay/Mental, I bear you no ill will. I'd like you to come back. You definitely livened this place up.
Eric too - let's be real about thatActually only Oracle mentioned you and it was only as part of his hypothesis for why Daily Stuph is dead.
- but yes, I do understand it's not everybody. Thank you, and likewise. I would like to stay.I'm all for that. I tried to stimulate conversation here for about a month posting links every day or so. You can see in Daily Stuph that like 80% of the recent threads were started by ManaMan. I'd get a couple of responses but only one of two of the threads sparked any real conversation. I think people just have so many other outlets to interact with others on the internet (Facebook, Twitter, etc) that old message boards like this fall to the wayside. Add to that that most of us have "lives" which, at least for me, was something I didn't have in high school back when this place was hopping.When I founded this site, I did so by starting topics of conversation on things that interested me. I had more traffic that first DAY than is going on here now, sad to say. I cannot for the life of me believe NOTHING is going on with some of you via interests, hobbies, world events, media, games, and so on that is worth talking about more than referring to me in my absence yet again as a "conspiracy theorist" and "he-who-shall-not-be-named".
If you would like to see a more active community - talk about ANYTHING in a positive, excited manner. Talk about art; talk about life. Talk about games, movies, books, music, poetry...talk about the kind of better world you'd like to see, revolutionary idea as that may be.
Oracle is right that there are still discussions going on in Gamethought. That's good (and to be expected on a gaming board). I'm not currently playing Fallout 4 though... maybe I should get on that. Need a new system though.
Replay/Mental, I bear you no ill will. I'd like you to come back. You definitely livened this place up.
I am not going to actively stay, however, where there are any "jokes" flying around about having me killed.
It's about maintaining a healthy atmosphere here, more than anything. And if much of the board has already been in real estate dealings with Kal - well, the difference between board of good times with an edgy sense of humor and the private playground of a multimillionare realtor/hedge funder building friendships so deep many people here wouldn't care if his jokes are jokes or veiled threats got very hard to define that day. You can probably understand why it's not my favorite place to be these days, Mana. You have seen Kal by his own admission noting that he loves to keep me in the dark as to how much of what he says is truthful anyway.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassQuite frankly, I'm happy to stay in ostrakos if the vote in the agora goes that way, so to speak.
Staying away AND having people endlessly bring me up though, less fun. Removes the current point and reason I was choosing to stay away. Letting a place where one was threatened without any reaction or defense from the community at the time talk about oneself until contempt and old grudges build up to ugly levels, not on my list of healthy activities.
Staying around and posting things just to liven the place up is not something that seems safe for me either, so I have a real Catch-22 here in some sense. You know many people here have serious problems with many of my worldviews.
Staying away AND having people endlessly bring me up though, less fun. Removes the current point and reason I was choosing to stay away. Letting a place where one was threatened without any reaction or defense from the community at the time talk about oneself until contempt and old grudges build up to ugly levels, not on my list of healthy activities.
Staying around and posting things just to liven the place up is not something that seems safe for me either, so I have a real Catch-22 here in some sense. You know many people here have serious problems with many of my worldviews.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassWhen did anyone joke about killing you? I don't recall that.I am not going to actively stay, however, where there are any "jokes" flying around about having me killed.
No one has had any real estate dealings with Kali nor is he some sort of multimillionaire realtor/hedge funder (to my knowledge). The whole thing with the Greek real estate seemed pretty tame to me. What's wrong with him buying real estate in Greece when he can get a good deal on it? I'm pretty sure that he was just fantasizing about it anyway. As I recall you're the one who made a big deal about it and he laid into you.It's about maintaining a healthy atmosphere here, more than anything. And if much of the board has already been in real estate dealings with Kal - well, the difference between board of good times with an edgy sense of humor and the private playground of a multimillionare realtor/hedge funder building friendships so deep many people here wouldn't care if his jokes are jokes or veiled threats got very hard to define that day. You can probably understand why it's not my favorite place to be these days, Mana. You have seen Kal by his own admission noting that he loves to keep me in the dark as to how much of what he says is truthful anyway.
I haven't followed all of your battles with Kali because, honestly, they seemed boring and pointless. Kali can be a bit of an ass and you're a bit out there sometimes. Something about your personalities clash and I figured I'd let you two sort it out between yourselves. Apparently you're incapable of that.
I feel like I just summoned a Pokémon without even having to say his name.
0-10 replies is kind of standard on Daily Stuph. I just don't really subscribe to the idea that I need to comment on everything. The big threads (30+ replies) for the past year have mostly been shit flinging which obviously turns this place into utter trash and not seeing a reply/thread in here every day or even every week is an acceptable alternative to that. We can work on manaman not having to create 3 or 4 out of every 5 threads though lol
25-40 year olds just do not have the time and energy to endlessly debate on a forum like a 15-20 year old does. The only way to get a truly active community here again would involve outreach. It isn't like the old days when you were a teenager and could just word of mouth this place to a friend, they would check it out, and maybe post actively for a while. To most people our age, they're either extremely content with toxic youtube/website commenting, Facebook shitposting, or Reddit circle jerking or just not interested in this kind of posting. A forum where people can talk to each other just isn't a highly valued commodity any more. There are plenty of places to do that these days. The entire draw of this place is that it isn't that.
I think it should be obvious from Ye Olde What do we come to the Shrine for thread that basically all of us want a refuge from the places like Reddit and Facebook (and that includes their relentless actvity) where you can post and not just get shit on or not have your post come up under someone's fucking lunch or your high school friend's borderline racist horse shit. And that includes bringing up old shit that we've all moved on from.
If someone joked they wanted to kill you, Replay, then I'm sorry that that we didn't come to your defense. That's pretty horrible but like ManaMan I don't recall it.
But I'm also not going to sit here and watch you play on your high horse like you weren't part of the problem. You would give as much if not more than you got. This place was an unenjoyable mine field with you around. The threads manaman seems to be nostalgic about in terms of activity were almost entirely shit flinging, and while you didn't necessarily always start it, you certainly regularly acted as a catalyst. I'm not going to ignore my hand in this but I stopped and you continued.
And then there were the times where you had no reason to start shit flinging and you would just fucking go at it any ways. You can't expect people not to make references to your epic shit show because it multiplied the average post count to several times what it usually is. And the Voldemort reference was meant to not stoke the fire when you inevitably did come back. I'm just not so sure it's fair of you to hurricane through this place for months and months, leave, and then snipe threads as if we're terrible people when we want to talk to each other about it.
Posting here for any period of time means you are part of the history and expecting that to just go away when you do is not feasible. It would be one thing if someone posted your personal details, Facebook, or linked a comment thread with you in it and we centered the discussion around shit talking you based around that. You would have a right to be miffed about that and under the correct circumstances I would even support your cause. But are we supposed to pretend you don't roll through here every few years and do what you have done every time - which is drive a great deal of the activity of other people into other forums (to put it as kind as possible).
It is entirely unrealistic of you to think that you wouldn't be made reference to when the subject of the community comes up. And you would have the right to be angry if it was more than that.
It wasn't. Get over it.
Also the stuff with kali and the land is bullshit. It's him playing with the idea that it's surprising what you will read here and believe, and him reaping satisfaction from how ridiculous he can make it. The part where he started to reference himself being mobbed up was where it got funny for me again... until it just got sad again.
25-40 year olds just do not have the time and energy to endlessly debate on a forum like a 15-20 year old does. The only way to get a truly active community here again would involve outreach. It isn't like the old days when you were a teenager and could just word of mouth this place to a friend, they would check it out, and maybe post actively for a while. To most people our age, they're either extremely content with toxic youtube/website commenting, Facebook shitposting, or Reddit circle jerking or just not interested in this kind of posting. A forum where people can talk to each other just isn't a highly valued commodity any more. There are plenty of places to do that these days. The entire draw of this place is that it isn't that.
I think it should be obvious from Ye Olde What do we come to the Shrine for thread that basically all of us want a refuge from the places like Reddit and Facebook (and that includes their relentless actvity) where you can post and not just get shit on or not have your post come up under someone's fucking lunch or your high school friend's borderline racist horse shit. And that includes bringing up old shit that we've all moved on from.
If someone joked they wanted to kill you, Replay, then I'm sorry that that we didn't come to your defense. That's pretty horrible but like ManaMan I don't recall it.
But I'm also not going to sit here and watch you play on your high horse like you weren't part of the problem. You would give as much if not more than you got. This place was an unenjoyable mine field with you around. The threads manaman seems to be nostalgic about in terms of activity were almost entirely shit flinging, and while you didn't necessarily always start it, you certainly regularly acted as a catalyst. I'm not going to ignore my hand in this but I stopped and you continued.
And then there were the times where you had no reason to start shit flinging and you would just fucking go at it any ways. You can't expect people not to make references to your epic shit show because it multiplied the average post count to several times what it usually is. And the Voldemort reference was meant to not stoke the fire when you inevitably did come back. I'm just not so sure it's fair of you to hurricane through this place for months and months, leave, and then snipe threads as if we're terrible people when we want to talk to each other about it.
Posting here for any period of time means you are part of the history and expecting that to just go away when you do is not feasible. It would be one thing if someone posted your personal details, Facebook, or linked a comment thread with you in it and we centered the discussion around shit talking you based around that. You would have a right to be miffed about that and under the correct circumstances I would even support your cause. But are we supposed to pretend you don't roll through here every few years and do what you have done every time - which is drive a great deal of the activity of other people into other forums (to put it as kind as possible).
It is entirely unrealistic of you to think that you wouldn't be made reference to when the subject of the community comes up. And you would have the right to be angry if it was more than that.
It wasn't. Get over it.
Also the stuff with kali and the land is bullshit. It's him playing with the idea that it's surprising what you will read here and believe, and him reaping satisfaction from how ridiculous he can make it. The part where he started to reference himself being mobbed up was where it got funny for me again... until it just got sad again.
Guys, it's hard for me to know what you are reading and are not. A few of you have a habit of jumping in on threads, taking swipes at me, then resolutely ignoring the rest of the discussion.
Yes, I understand you don't have the time to read everything. I also might ask, however, that if you DON'T read everything - don't be so quick to judge my reactions to things you haven't read.
I will note, mostly for Kali's benefit, that I have this one stored on my computer and in print in several locations just to remind him that such behavior is out of line with every code of conduct we have and have had here, and for various other reasons that he may deduce. (If you are tempted to redact it as you have redacted other things, Kali, I will remind you of sites like the Internet Archive, and remind you as you once reminded me - the Internet never forgets.)
http://postimg.org/image/7poanlknd/
I can go get the thread, or he can - if the relevant response doesn't vanish the second he sees this, that is. I can also produce a thread wherein Kali noted in an earlier conversation that it is "almost impossible to do serious real estate/construction in North America without mob ties". That one was in response to the Trump campaign, ironically enough.
Suffice it to say, Shrinnie, that were it you, you might not be so quick with the "get over it" cries in such a situation.
Yes, I understand you don't have the time to read everything. I also might ask, however, that if you DON'T read everything - don't be so quick to judge my reactions to things you haven't read.
I will note, mostly for Kali's benefit, that I have this one stored on my computer and in print in several locations just to remind him that such behavior is out of line with every code of conduct we have and have had here, and for various other reasons that he may deduce. (If you are tempted to redact it as you have redacted other things, Kali, I will remind you of sites like the Internet Archive, and remind you as you once reminded me - the Internet never forgets.)
http://postimg.org/image/7poanlknd/
I can go get the thread, or he can - if the relevant response doesn't vanish the second he sees this, that is. I can also produce a thread wherein Kali noted in an earlier conversation that it is "almost impossible to do serious real estate/construction in North America without mob ties". That one was in response to the Trump campaign, ironically enough.
Suffice it to say, Shrinnie, that were it you, you might not be so quick with the "get over it" cries in such a situation.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassNow - at this point? I'd rather seriously like to coexist with Kali. I don't love what he does in terms of bragging about evicting people; but - as he well knows - nothing he has talked about doing here is illegal, whether or not it hurts people or contributes to world homelessness or anything else.
So really, I have very little say in the matter other than to note that I get tired of constantly feeding the homeless that our bigger-better-richer society has a nasty habit still of leaving behind in droves. (And by the way - had I not been in the habit of taking care of so many of the poor in my old neighborhood, Kal, I would have had a great deal more money when you so kindly had me physically surveilled by a variety of means - and that probably in violation of several dozen American Fourth Amendment-related laws.)
So really, I have very little say in the matter other than to note that I get tired of constantly feeding the homeless that our bigger-better-richer society has a nasty habit still of leaving behind in droves. (And by the way - had I not been in the habit of taking care of so many of the poor in my old neighborhood, Kal, I would have had a great deal more money when you so kindly had me physically surveilled by a variety of means - and that probably in violation of several dozen American Fourth Amendment-related laws.)
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassI read your usual brand of condescension and responded to a great deal of what I was fit to comment on. I see, as usual, you've skipped over nearly every god damn thing I have posted once again just to focus on what basically none of what my response was. But this is entirely why I opt to ignore you.
And now with your derailing.
And now with your derailing.
More to the point, I'd like to coexist with ALL of you; but - and some of you know this is true - that same some of you don't have any particular desire to reach any kind of peaceful coexistence with me as long as I espouse so-called "conspiracy theories".
If you'd had the experiences I've had, you might not be so quick to judge me.
And as a postscript and one final note, Shrinnie - you note that the "stuff with Kali and the land is bullshit". A certain poster here however has publicly asked him to secure some Greek property for his own family, here. I will not betray any confidences other than that I made it clear to that person that I had no opposition to that deal in question, as it was done for a good reason. The constant public school-style trolling I get from Kali, bragging about other evictions he may or may not be making up -and I don't think you have ANY idea if that is "bullshit" or not - not such good reasons. That is particularly true if you say we all come to the Shrine to get away from the constant Hells of other social media sites. Vancouver's ongoing eviction crises are well documented at this point, though I don't think most here took a look at that information either when I presented it.
If you'd had the experiences I've had, you might not be so quick to judge me.
And as a postscript and one final note, Shrinnie - you note that the "stuff with Kali and the land is bullshit". A certain poster here however has publicly asked him to secure some Greek property for his own family, here. I will not betray any confidences other than that I made it clear to that person that I had no opposition to that deal in question, as it was done for a good reason. The constant public school-style trolling I get from Kali, bragging about other evictions he may or may not be making up -and I don't think you have ANY idea if that is "bullshit" or not - not such good reasons. That is particularly true if you say we all come to the Shrine to get away from the constant Hells of other social media sites. Vancouver's ongoing eviction crises are well documented at this point, though I don't think most here took a look at that information either when I presented it.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassIronic as this might sound, Shrin, you need to get control of your temper on this. For once I'm perfectly calm. Had you waited literally 5 minutes, you'd see that I have indeed been reading your post.
For once I'm perfectly calm. Had you waited literally 5 minutes, you'd see that I have indeed been reading your post.
Last edited by Replay on Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassI can't count the number of times people have TL:DR'ed me, by the way. Rest assured I'm quite making an effort to process yours, but every time I post something here longer than a page I get accused of "ranting".
I'd love to respond to every single point; at the same time I have had to face up to the fact that I have to have a certain amount of brevity on my own posts, or honestly, nobody freaking reads them anymore. You will note that you hardly read any of the epic thread on which the incident I'm relating occurred, for instance.
I'd love to respond to every single point; at the same time I have had to face up to the fact that I have to have a certain amount of brevity on my own posts, or honestly, nobody freaking reads them anymore. You will note that you hardly read any of the epic thread on which the incident I'm relating occurred, for instance.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassThat's cute with the "shrinnie" and all but I just don't really care any more. You're doing the same thing you've always done, just because you aren't frothing at the mouth, doesn't mean you've grown or that you've gained perspective on things.
I read the thread back then. The other person was trolling you, too. Some of us forget how horrid it can be to interact with you from time to time and make the mistake of getting involved.
I read the thread back then. The other person was trolling you, too. Some of us forget how horrid it can be to interact with you from time to time and make the mistake of getting involved.
Okay, Shrinweck. If it's the abbreviation of your name you see as condescension, I am HAPPY to post your full handle all the time.
I agree with some of what you said and disagree with some of the rest. We can go through it point-by-point if you like. I'm well aware that I'm not the easiest person to live with, online or off it. I do try, however.
We'll cut to the chase and note that you telling me to "get over it", then accusing me of condescension in response, strikes me as...a bit dismissive of what I'm trying to present.
Have you looked at the image I posted regarding the reason I left yet, by any chance, yourself?
I agree with some of what you said and disagree with some of the rest. We can go through it point-by-point if you like. I'm well aware that I'm not the easiest person to live with, online or off it. I do try, however.
We'll cut to the chase and note that you telling me to "get over it", then accusing me of condescension in response, strikes me as...a bit dismissive of what I'm trying to present.
Have you looked at the image I posted regarding the reason I left yet, by any chance, yourself?
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassWhat? The homeless woman stock photo where you said you were helping homeless people during the time you weren't here? What am I supposed to do with that? You're a near-stranger on the internet making claims. Good on you for helping those in need if it's the case, but it has zero bearing on how I treat someone in a forum interaction.
I don't think it has much bearing on how you ever treat anyone, but I could be wrong. Stop condescending to me as you allege that I am doing to you and I will be happy to be nicer to you as you desire.
Stop condescending to me as you allege that I am doing to you and I will be happy to be nicer to you as you desire. “I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassThis may surprise you - but it is quite rare when I post here that I am actually, actively trying to be the miserable bastard that you sometimes see me as.
Usually I present information calmly and concisely - it is however information that immediately makes some of you believe I'm wild-eyed, frothing, and bigoted, due to its controversial or even unbelievable nature.
Then I get shat upon mightily in response and then I DO lose it; and I very much acknowledge that this turns me into the Swamp Thing - often making me far worse than the original person or persons who dumped on me, in the end.
I'm quite happy to make a better effort to curb that nastier side of myself. Ironically, Kali's habit of splitting threads at will is also going to make it quite hard to determine, historically, what I did originally lead off with in a thread and what I didn't. I can't count the number of times he's threadsplit something I've started, with a side effect of making it look like I just went balls-out troll on the entire community.
Whether or not he does this in order to keep the original threads pristine, or to twist debates to make it look like I am an aggressive instigator of mayhem, or both, is not particularly provable. Suffice it to say I think it is mostly to uphold the original threads, but that he doesn't mind that other side effect much at all.
Usually I present information calmly and concisely - it is however information that immediately makes some of you believe I'm wild-eyed, frothing, and bigoted, due to its controversial or even unbelievable nature.
Then I get shat upon mightily in response and then I DO lose it; and I very much acknowledge that this turns me into the Swamp Thing - often making me far worse than the original person or persons who dumped on me, in the end.
I'm quite happy to make a better effort to curb that nastier side of myself. Ironically, Kali's habit of splitting threads at will is also going to make it quite hard to determine, historically, what I did originally lead off with in a thread and what I didn't. I can't count the number of times he's threadsplit something I've started, with a side effect of making it look like I just went balls-out troll on the entire community.
Whether or not he does this in order to keep the original threads pristine, or to twist debates to make it look like I am an aggressive instigator of mayhem, or both, is not particularly provable. Suffice it to say I think it is mostly to uphold the original threads, but that he doesn't mind that other side effect much at all.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassYou have to remember, Shrinweck - I have been compared to Nazis and anti-Semites here, called a moron and an idiot and a lot of other names more often than I can fully count, mocked generally, trolled and screamed and talked about behind my back at by the person I gave the site to after a few years of hard work early on when he couldn't found a successful forum of his own, trolled and viciously lied to by the moderator HE handed it to, told I'm insane and dangerous, and been viciously gossiped about in my absence by almost the entire community, which oddly seemed to think it was only a matter of time before I lost it and went on a spree. (It wasn't, and I haven't and never will. I shouldn't even have to say that.)
Get off your own high horse for a moment and consider how you'd react had those things been said about you, particularly when the worse slurs among those I mentioned are, and always have been, resoundingly untrue.
Get off your own high horse for a moment and consider how you'd react had those things been said about you, particularly when the worse slurs among those I mentioned are, and always have been, resoundingly untrue.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassI have also gone ahead and provided some threadstarts for everyone in this forum that should be decently non-personal-interaction-powderkeggy (well, 2 of 3 anyway, the other is inherently unremovable from controversy). Bon appetit!
You may delete them all and remake them if it is decided that my presence is not desired on any of them.
You may delete them all and remake them if it is decided that my presence is not desired on any of them.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassI don't really care how you treat me any more. That's kind of where I've been going with my posts in this thread. It isn't worth it. And I would say that you were more correct when you called my tone dismissive then when you called it condescending, but I tend to mirror people's attitude towards me in real life as much as online. This is why I ignore you. Do you enjoy being the way you are on here? It doesn't really seem like it. I don't like being the way I am to you. Does that mean you're going to stop or I am? Probably not. So I ignore you.
How would I react if someone called me names? Eh, you've seen how I would react in this thread (not referring to copious name calling, just saying that this is how i would react were it the case). I'd be a dismissive jerk about it. But I certainly wouldn't have poisoned the well so-to-speak.
You can see how we've treated each other in the other threads. There are jokes and disagreements but none of us are actually being burned by any of it. A big part of existing on the Internet is to find out how you want to be a part of it. I would suggest, without meaning to speak for you, that while you do seem to have a yearning for civil discussion, you quite clearly enjoy shit stirring to a certain extent. You do it so gleefully at times or at least that's how your tone/writing comes off here.
In the end I don't appreciate coming here and seeing this place turned to shit. But every time I logged in several months ago and saw 10+ posts in Daily Stuph since I'd last logged in I knew that's what it was. For the past couple months I've been able to come here and get excited to read what was posted. That's what I want when I come here. Not this.
How would I react if someone called me names? Eh, you've seen how I would react in this thread (not referring to copious name calling, just saying that this is how i would react were it the case). I'd be a dismissive jerk about it. But I certainly wouldn't have poisoned the well so-to-speak.
You can see how we've treated each other in the other threads. There are jokes and disagreements but none of us are actually being burned by any of it. A big part of existing on the Internet is to find out how you want to be a part of it. I would suggest, without meaning to speak for you, that while you do seem to have a yearning for civil discussion, you quite clearly enjoy shit stirring to a certain extent. You do it so gleefully at times or at least that's how your tone/writing comes off here.
In the end I don't appreciate coming here and seeing this place turned to shit. But every time I logged in several months ago and saw 10+ posts in Daily Stuph since I'd last logged in I knew that's what it was. For the past couple months I've been able to come here and get excited to read what was posted. That's what I want when I come here. Not this.
Try caring. It's very hard for me to want to truly be as fuzzy and warm to you as you want me to be until you do care.
I have NEVER made an effort to "poison the well" here deliberately; everything I post about is something I have cared about. "Seeing this place turned to shit" however - well, I feel the same way, but for different reasons. You never really knew me in my earlier incarnation as the site's original founder. You have only known this site under Sine/Kali, and I have seen people shit on others mightily here since they took it over in ways I would never have approved of. I have seen YOU say a few things about at least one certain group that would make them feel very unwelcome here, back a few years ago.
I have NEVER made an effort to "poison the well" here deliberately; everything I post about is something I have cared about. "Seeing this place turned to shit" however - well, I feel the same way, but for different reasons. You never really knew me in my earlier incarnation as the site's original founder. You have only known this site under Sine/Kali, and I have seen people shit on others mightily here since they took it over in ways I would never have approved of. I have seen YOU say a few things about at least one certain group that would make them feel very unwelcome here, back a few years ago.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassThat's where I'm going with this. I don't need you to be warm and fuzzy to me. I don't even really want you to. I just don't like you. I don't like you when we're bickering like this and I don't like you when I'm staying out of it and reading your posts. Unlike a lot of people here I didn't have any dealings with you in the past. You returned one time when I was posting here regularly again (took a 3-5 year hiatus) and someone whose advice I should have continued to heed told me to "Stay out of it" so I did. Because of this, this is the only way I've ever seen you. Is there more to you that's worth getting to know? Probably. But it doesn't mean I need to take it upon myself to do so.
So you want to use a community I founded because you like a lot of what it still is, in perpetuity.
But the second I showed up someone talked trash about me, you liked what you heard and never gave me much of a chance.
Consider how that one feels to me, Shrinweck.
But the second I showed up someone talked trash about me, you liked what you heard and never gave me much of a chance.
Consider how that one feels to me, Shrinweck.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassYou misunderstand - I've paid attention to how you have conducted yourself in order to decide how I feel.
And I don't care that you founded this community. It's a meaningless statement to me.
And I don't care that you founded this community. It's a meaningless statement to me.
You don't understand that I feel the SAME WAY but from a different perspective. That's how it was for me and a great many people here originally. We can do a per-annum count of drama here under my early days and under Sine/Kali if anyone wants.Shrinweck wrote:You can see how we've treated each other in the other threads. There are jokes and disagreements but none of us are actually being burned by any of it.
*YOU* feel burned because I came back here after a great many years, and surprise - you don't know me, and don't like me. You don't like my alleged conspiracy theories. You don't like my personality. You think I poison the well and start shit. Well, I'm listening; but from a perspective of losing before I start to talk - for you don't WANT to talk to me or have to listen - yet, you keep doing it. Why?
*I* for my part feel burned because I busted my ass back all the way back in '97 to found the original version of this community. I really thought it would stay the way it was in the original years, where there was an expectation of larger respect not just WITHIN but OUTSIDE the community - I gave it away with the assumption that it would stay a place of mutual respect not just for our group of Internet barflies but all good people of the Earth. Well, "Tony Homo" is still up on the front page, and the people I gave it to are rather bad to me now. And the discussion talking about how I'm a ticking powderkeg from a few years ago about me is still up too, though I might suggest that those who thought the worst of me become even wronger every year.
I don't think this place is all that terribly bad in the larger ranking of Internet awful, certainly - but there's not really an expectation that kindness should remain at a core here, anymore. At least that is how I feel.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassHad you founded it, how would you feel about hearing that statement?Shrinweck wrote:And I don't care that you founded this community. It's a meaningless statement to me.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassHad I walked away, for years, from a place that I created and came back to something I didn't like I would be disappointed.
Thank you. For my part, I'd like to do my own part to make this a place you feel welcome and that it's a community you like to be in.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassIn a slightly different direction - something that makes me enjoy a community is that it doesn't (to use a ship metaphor) have a captain that I need to suck up to and follow their rules. A community that's able to exist on the Internet without having a babysitter so-to-speak. While people like kali and sine moderate/admin and keep this place from being spammed by bots, they aren't driving the ship as much as maintaining it. Something I never hear from them is their vision and direction of this place is different from where it is now. I'm certainly thankful sine keeps the lights on, though, even though his life has taken away from posting here.
And I was nastier than I meant to be about not caring that you founded this place. I do appreciate the work that went into how things are today. When I say I don't care about how you founded this place, I mean that it just doesn't matter to me when it comes to this discussion.
So, thanks.
And I was nastier than I meant to be about not caring that you founded this place. I do appreciate the work that went into how things are today. When I say I don't care about how you founded this place, I mean that it just doesn't matter to me when it comes to this discussion.
So, thanks.
To you as well. I have also quite often been nastier than I mean to be. I don't want to encourage that side of me at all these days.
I actually have put a lot of thought into the issues you mention in your post, and playing devil's advocate for Kali - well, he's been one of the best First Amendment supporters here I could hope for. He really does let nearly EVERYTHING stay; probably more than I ever would have. And in another fit of irony, it is because he doesn't give much of a fuck that he has permitted the widest range of discussion.
In that respect I do understand why you might prefer his moderation style. I have to wonder myself if, despite various personal dramas, in some ways that represents him doing an incredible job with another crucial part of my original intent here - to promote free and intelligent speech.
It's something I would hope the community might discuss one day without us all powderkegging over it.
I actually have put a lot of thought into the issues you mention in your post, and playing devil's advocate for Kali - well, he's been one of the best First Amendment supporters here I could hope for. He really does let nearly EVERYTHING stay; probably more than I ever would have. And in another fit of irony, it is because he doesn't give much of a fuck that he has permitted the widest range of discussion.
In that respect I do understand why you might prefer his moderation style. I have to wonder myself if, despite various personal dramas, in some ways that represents him doing an incredible job with another crucial part of my original intent here - to promote free and intelligent speech.
It's something I would hope the community might discuss one day without us all powderkegging over it.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassThe debate between an appropriate line of free speech and an appropriate line of compassion is not ever an easy one, and very relevant here.
Of all the...well, ruminations...I have about political debate on Earth, that one vexes me the most. I believe people should be kind, but the historical truism is that the most necessary historical free speech is not just sometimes not kind or easy - politically, it is often uncomfortable if not outright unkind, and never easy.
And in this particular aspect Kali and Sine, I will admit, have both done a better job as moderator of the agora than I ever could. They don't babysit. And this community is certainly in 2015/16 not an infant in any way; your point on that, whether implicit or explicit, is very much making me think right now.
Of all the...well, ruminations...I have about political debate on Earth, that one vexes me the most. I believe people should be kind, but the historical truism is that the most necessary historical free speech is not just sometimes not kind or easy - politically, it is often uncomfortable if not outright unkind, and never easy.
And in this particular aspect Kali and Sine, I will admit, have both done a better job as moderator of the agora than I ever could. They don't babysit. And this community is certainly in 2015/16 not an infant in any way; your point on that, whether implicit or explicit, is very much making me think right now.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick Douglass*sigh* On reflection, there's no doubt that I have stirred plenty of the shit in my day. The Shrine is not particularly healthier any time I take offense to one post and end up with forty angry replies, no matter how offended I may be.
Dealing with frustrations, differences of opinion, and different lifestyles without manifesting an unholy level of outrage or wounded indignation is undeniably part of adulthood too, and I will strive to grow with the Shrine if I'm going to preach in any way about compassion.
Dealing with frustrations, differences of opinion, and different lifestyles without manifesting an unholy level of outrage or wounded indignation is undeniably part of adulthood too, and I will strive to grow with the Shrine if I'm going to preach in any way about compassion.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassI put a lot more thought into this last night. I thought I'd feel better after coming back, trying to be more positive, and posting a lot of material I thought "would help things"...and I really don't. It doesn't particularly feel organic nor fostering of community.
It feels like I'm coming back, haughtily wanting to be given a lot of respect again whether the community wants to or not - and especially that I took offense to one post, ended up with forty angry replies, POSTED about the forty angry replies without realizing I'm retreading the same old tired ground - then tried to dominate the overall Shrine discussion with a few new posts as if this were actually 1997.
It's just not.
Most of all, it feels more like my time here as moderator, and effective role as founder or in a leadership role of this community, really has passed and that I'm having a hard time letting go than anything. Shrinweck, you mentioned that one several years ago the first time I ever came back; so forgive me that it's taken a few years to see it.
I guess will not post any further material about how I'm "never coming back" that proves to be a lie within months; neither will I parade around in 2016 posting dozens of self-righteous replies and 80% of the thread topics as if it were 1997 and I just started the joint.
I will do my best instead to help the site/community in a quiet way and with humility.
Best to one and all.
It feels like I'm coming back, haughtily wanting to be given a lot of respect again whether the community wants to or not - and especially that I took offense to one post, ended up with forty angry replies, POSTED about the forty angry replies without realizing I'm retreading the same old tired ground - then tried to dominate the overall Shrine discussion with a few new posts as if this were actually 1997.
It's just not.
Most of all, it feels more like my time here as moderator, and effective role as founder or in a leadership role of this community, really has passed and that I'm having a hard time letting go than anything. Shrinweck, you mentioned that one several years ago the first time I ever came back; so forgive me that it's taken a few years to see it.
I guess will not post any further material about how I'm "never coming back" that proves to be a lie within months; neither will I parade around in 2016 posting dozens of self-righteous replies and 80% of the thread topics as if it were 1997 and I just started the joint.
I will do my best instead to help the site/community in a quiet way and with humility.
Best to one and all.
“I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong." --Frederick DouglassYeah...you better be sad and scared.Shrinweck wrote:
Just as a matter record, obviously never a good idea to allow mental to cherry pick quotes. I will link the original thread for the quote below, so the absurd context is clear for my absurd response. While mental for some reason went back to delete most of his replies, still a classic.
http://tows.cc/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17665&
Now I will leave you all to continue hashing it out
