The Shrine

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Okay here is my story.

I meet this really cute girl in my Calculus class, who is also a freshman, and is way ahead in math courses as well (i am a year ahead of most entering CS majors), and the fact she is cute just tops it off. I find out she has a B/F though, and I am like shit. Well me and her just kind of hang out, and become friends, I am not expecting anything more than that since I know she has a B/F (though i am attracted to her). So one night while doing some math in her dorm room (her roomie was out) we just kind chill on the bed, and at one point i kind lay down, and we just talk, we kinda stare into each others eyes (in my head i am like damn i want to kiss her) but she end up kissing me to my own shock. And we ended up kissing somemore, blah blah blah. Okay now I know about her B/f, they have been dating for 3 years (her only real b/f), and he is 2 years older than her and about to graduate college in December from a school in Arizona. Okay so they have been together quite awhile, and she has talked to me about the relationship, and how things have changed since she started college finally. If she ever happens to go out and he calls, he turns into a dick and get all butt hurt (like she is just suppose to sit in her room and wait for his every call), and he says "It's okay be with your friends" and then later he is a baby about it. So I guess things have been getting worse and worse as time as gone on, they fight and bicker, but the 2nd he comes into town the wall gets tworn down, and things get better for awhile. But she feels lately the wall is not being taken all the way back down and some things are still left over. She recently broke down while he was being a dick during Valentines weekend, the weekend was all good, until he was chilling on her bed ignoring her for no good reason, she started to cry and he did not seem to care, so she said that they were on a "break".

Okay so thats a good basis of things, I am sure it is still a little fuzzy to some of you. Okay so me and this girl have kind of been seing each other for a month and 1/2. And we are nothing offical or anything, and when people ask I tell them we are 'seeing' each other. Okay I have a huge delema. I like this girl, but I really do not want to ruin a 3 year relationship. I have told her if she wants me and her to end that is fine, but she says she does not want that. She does not want to hurt me or her b/f, but in the end one of us is gonna get fucked over. I want her to be the one to make the decision, and I have not tryed to sway her one way or the other. I have just been myself and been caring and showed her a good time lately.

It is a really fucked up situation. She never expected to find a person like me i guess, and make her question if her B/F was the right guy for her. This b/f is gunho on marrying her when he graduates, but she is still questioning that since she would just be handed from her parents over to this guy, never having time to grow up and be somewhat independent.

I probably can't call her b/f a dick without knowing his side of the story, but he sure seems like one. Man all i want is this girl to be happy, even if its not with me.

I probably not going to want to hear some of your responses, but I thin I need other peoples thoughts. I know it is gonna be hard if this guy ever find out about this girl cheating on him. Cause my Ex cheated on me at the end/ ended it abruptly and started seeing another guy.

Thanks for any responses, and if i am vague i will clarify things....

~Kevin~</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>After reading your message: pretty much the same response. But, me telling you that she is bad news probably won't change what you <i>want</i> to do - and frankly, I don't think it should. That's something I realized recently, even when it was going on: some lessons you just need to learn firsthand. So I don't think dating her is a particularly good idea, but I honestly think you should anyway. Dating is like anything else: you need experiences in order to know what you're doing. Knowing how to being in a relationship is something you learn, and you're not going to get it right the first time - or the second time.

It sounds like you really fell for this girl, and maybe she fell for you. It might end badly, but in cases like this, I still think it's best to try anyway.

I know you don't want to think of this as a learning experience, but hey, you don't have to: you like her a lot, and you'll probably date her. Then, after the relationship is over (and it almost certainly will end in breakup, and that's okay), you can look back on it and hopefuly learn a few things.

But this piece of advice I think you should follow: she has to make a decision. Him or you. You don't have to pressure her - and I advise against it - but you should make it clear that in the near future, she has to figure out what she wants. If it's you, then you'll date for a while (or a long while, you never know). If it's not, then don't tolerate any amount of her lapsing into relationship-like things with you behind the other guy's back. That will fuck you up big time.

And, I know it's hard to think of this being the case at the time, but if she decides she wants to be with the other guy... you probably won't stay friends. If she doesn't pick you, do yourself a favor and put some distance between you and her for a while. Otherwise, life can get very, very ugly.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>you know i have thought the same things man.... I know there is a very good chance of me getting burnt on this. And I have never pressured her about the decision, I have told her to take all the time she needs. Don't worry I kind of feel like an idiot for doing this. You hit most of my thoughts</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Hell you could watch that movie "The Ladies Man" to figure it out really.

When a woman is considering cheating on her boyfriend or letting somebody else in their lives, all they're really doing is filling this giant gapping hole that the boyfriend isn't filling up.

1) The boyfriend could suck in bed.
2) He could just be a fucking moron to talk to.
3) They share seperate interests she wants to talk about.
4) He could suck in bed.
5) He could be wanting a deep relationship, when she isn't ready to commit
6) He could have cheated on her and she wants to get him back.
7) He could just really really suck in bed!

It's basically about what the hell she finds so amazing about you, that has her questioning her relationship with a guy she's been with for THREE YEARS. Basically, if she and her boyfriend were to seriously sit down and talk things out, they could work it out, if it's meant to be of course. If it's multiple problems that he can't change about himself(abusive, verbally abusive, drug addicted, just extreme stuff), then it's not gonna last no matter what kinda talking goes on. If it's more like, "Oh he's not aroung enough" or "Oh we just don't have excitement anymore" THOSE types of things are repairable.

You my friend, are nothing more to her then a need/desire. You're offering her something that the relationship doesn't have, and when you do that you bring ALOT of power to the table. She sees you as a freakin savior, and such a wonderful person for FINALLY bringing whatever was lacking.

This doesn't neccissarily mean she's a bad person, and it doesn't mean you're a bad person either. You're just caught up in emotion, it happens. It happened to me in my relationship, and you'd THINK that I'd know better since I'm knowledgable on the subject, but noooo, I let my emotions get the better of me(I only kissed her once damnit!!!!)....errr anyway, different story...

Anyway, what you need to consider are three things.

1) If you were her boyfriend, how would you feel? You don't know this dude, it's easy enough to say fuck em. Especially when she's talking so badly about him, but hey, you never know if he's really like that, or if there's just alot of friction that needs to be repaired. You have to keep in mind they've been together for 3 years, that's a long time! He must have been doing something right. She's also seeing him when he comes home, and I don't want to disturb you, but they might even still be sexually active.

2) IF you DID get with her, and that's a big IF. Are you the type of person who gets insecure? Because this is what will be going through your mind: "She left her last boyfriend who she was with for 3 years to be with me...YAY! I rock!....But ummm would she do the same thing to me? Maybe she just wanted to be single and made me help to accomplish the goal! Nooooo!"

3) And finally are YOU ready for a relationship, you're talkin big now, but entering a relationship under these types circumstances is dangerous for the heart, body, and soul. Not to mention your concentration in class, it could singlehandedly screw you if you aren't ready, so damnit man, make sure you make the right choice.

PS: Errrr are you having sex with her? If so I highly advise you to find out if she's still boning her boyfriend.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Were both virgins (not to say we have not done other things....)</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '><i>You my friend, are nothing more to her then a need/desire.</i>

I think that trivializes the whole concept of being attracted to a person emotionally. A need/desire is "I need to eat" or "I want to have sex right now." I think her boyfriend is probably not providing some emotional support, and he is. That's more complex than a simple need or a desire.

Everything else, I pretty much agree.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Telling her she should take "all the time she needs" is not a good idea. It's not fair to you. It is reasonable and fair to tell her that she needs to make this decision in the near future. You can be a nice guy and still look out for yourself.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Most highschool couples break up in college, the ones that dont are usually still stuck in the first love phase which will pass.

I might sound like i'm being hypocritical because i married a girl i went to HS with, but we never dated in HS and it took going to college for a year to realize we loved each other. Its vastly different.

Most HS relationships is the popular girl and popular guy who are together because they should be and not because they want to be, college makes them realize they can move on.

In short, go for it, she'll be the one to make the decision, dont make it for her. Dont sell out because of what you think is best for her, she'll know what is and go that path, in the meantime you have to give it your best shot to show her that you're the best path. There is no 'stealing' involved at all, she could tell you to F off just as easily as make out with you, IMO.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>heh, after now reading Kupek's post after i made mine, i could have simply said 'ditto' and saved myself some time :)</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Well he actually goes to a sausage fest of a school, she says there is a very small population of girls (Like 14)</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>yeah, thats what he tells her....</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '><i>Most HS relationships is the popular girl and popular guy who are together because they should be and not because they want to be, college makes them realize they can move on.</i>

Eh? I'd say emphaticaly not. I don't know what your high school was like, but at mine, it was too large and too diverse to have "the popular guy" and "the popular girl." I have two friends who dated in high school, then dated until the end of junior year of college, and they will probably get back together at some point - the problem wasn't that they got bored of each other, the problem was that they never got to see each other.

I agree with the whole "first love" thing, but your characterization of high school relationships is really strange.

Actually, I do know what your high school was like, a little - you went to Centreville, right? Uh, Tort, was it really like that?</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Well it was huge, so there was pop guy and pop girl, but i also dont remember seeing any relationships where i thought they would be together forever.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Well it was huge, so there was no single pop guy and pop girl, but i also dont remember seeing any relationships where i thought they would be together forever.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>When a chick has "dated" a boyfriend for 3 years and hasn't moved in, there's something wrong with the relationship.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Granted, I know you've been through the same kind of shit, but the chances are good that she'll be going with a full-time relationship with Anarky. The main question is whether she's using him as a buffer to step down from a major relationship, or if this is seriously for keeps. This has budded from an existing friendship, so that's definately good.

Also, being completely honest and open communication is key here. Learn from the mistakes of the previous relationship, Anarky. Make sure she does the same thing, because a breakdown of communication is always the downfall of any relationship.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Whoa! Back the fucking truck up! Unless she's some hardcore Christian, if she's been with this guy for three years without sex, then there's DEFINATELY something wrong with the relationship.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Well, my pessimism comes from the fact that she's cheating on her boyfriend - that screams bad news to me. And to be fair, I should have a disclaimer that I just dealt with a similarly messed up girl.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Sine, they're freshmen. That means they're about 18, and started dating about 15. People don't move in at 18.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Some people still believe its decent to marry before living together anyways, Since i'm not religious i dont think its 'living in sin' but i do think its proper to marry before living together.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>I was kind of surprised by that fact too.... She is Christian, but she is not hardcore.... ehhh damned if i know the real reason... maybe he has a small one</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Not everyone can afford to move intogether at a young age, especially when in college.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>uhm...my roommate's been dating his gf for over 3 years now and he's 20. Kinda hard to move in together when you go to colleges 3 hours apart</div>

<div style='font: bold 9pt ; text-align: left; '>*sigh*</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>You'll learn to regret that latter on. People are different when you move in together.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Oh yeah...I forgot that people go to college that early in life.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>You can give a man a handjob, a blowjob, or he can give face, but it's not considered "sex". WTF? It's an orgasm...stuff came out; therefore it's fucking sex! But, when it comes down to actually fucking, oh, that's different. Not really. Penis...meet vagina. Vagina, say hello to penis.

Are they afraid of STDs? You can get that from a blowjob.
Are they afraid of getting pregnant? That can be prevented with birth control and/or a condom.
Are they afraid of getting their cherry popped? Well, that could happen from oral (and hand) action, too.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Dear Lord, man, you assume that everyone should be detached from their families or have the same belief set as you. That is quite honestly the stupidest thing I've ever heard regarding relationships</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>You're stupid.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>End it.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Get out of it until she is through with her current boyfriend. I mean concrete, restraining order kinda through. I know it's hard. Shit, I was incredibly into one of these 4 girls I mentioned. But it's just to much of a headcase, and it can lead to shit later as I found out with another. Trust will always be an issue for obvious reasons. It can also lead to very uncomfortable situations with her friends or family. It's just not a good situation.

If she ends the relationship, then move in. Best suggestion I can make.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>You WILL get burned, one way or another. I agree with Kupek, she needs to make a decision now to save everyone involved more pain, present and future.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Dude...you're having sex with no real gentlemanly responsibilities. Welcome to the OPP club! =8^D</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Pretty much in agreement here. What I want to know is why I'm a frickin magnet for these women!</div>

<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>you are such a man-whore :p</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Impact; text-align: left; '>If she's still got feelings for her ex, like "Let's just be friends." it's really not worth the effort. Girls who have ex's as 'friends' will just make it more and more difficult for you to do anything. If every conversation you have with her has to be about him, you are way better off sending her packing now, rather than getting burned. Obviously she's indecisive. Set a time limit. Say she's got a week to decide because playing both of you isn't going to work out in the long run. Sounds to me like this chick wants her cake and wants to eat it too. Life's not like that.

Procrastinating on this is not something you need to be doing. Run that hurry-up offense. If she doesn't pick you, think of it for the best. You don't need some chick with issues like that.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Impact; text-align: left; '>MM's got the right idea.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You subconsciencely like it? :)</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I once slept with my roommates girlfriend, while he was passed out in the same bed after a Depeche Mode concert. After that, we headed to the 11th floor and had sex in the hotel hot tub. For the next year and a half, with met up in a hotel room every two weeks...she even ditched him on new years. What a nice girl eh? And me...heh :/

My point? Ultimately, that experience tarnished my views on love, trust, friendship, myself, honor and more. It was a NEGATIVE experience...but I wouldn't trade it for anything. Being someone who views life as little more than the pursuit of 'experiences', I think being the "other guy" is something everyone should try once. Knocks a bit of the naivety outta you...

So my suggestion is just enjoy yourself and have fun. That said, DO NOT even think about trying to "have feelings" or "start a real relationship" *SMACK*! What, do you actually think anything beautiful can grow from tawdry beginnings....? Doubtful. You'll have trust issues out the ass if you 'get the girl'.

Treat her as a harmless affair or kick her to the curb...</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Virgins? Really...?

I guess it lessens the power of my arguement/experience, but read Eric's post...if she is screwing around with you, however you virgins screw around, despite having a boyfriend, even if you end up together their will be trust issues...

I say do her though! Nothing like an unsavory affair being your first sexual experience (my friend gave me his girlfriend on my 14th birthday, while he had sex with her friend on my floor. Hooray for being warped from the get go!)

Honestly, you are left with a simple choice in my eyes.

Pursue a sexual relationship with little hope of a future, or walk away. I don't see much gray area unless you choose to be blindly optimistic.

/shrug

KO-</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>You had one of those fucked up lost viginities too eh?</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>14?! good lord</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Is it that weird that I am still a virgin at 18 (19 on the 12th) ? o_0 geez some of you have intresting stories</div>

<div style='font: 9pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Last April, during my stats class, on girl I kinda knew told me that she liked me. So afterward, I ask her to lunch, and on the way over, she tells me that she kind of has a boyfriend. She said that they had been going out for three years, but that he had changed during the final year of the relationship, becoming emotionally and sometimes physically abusive. In fact, she tried to break it off a few months prior, but he would just keep coming back. He said the only way he would break up with her was if she cheated on him. So naturally, all my red flags are going off, and I start to think that meybe she's just using me to get off of a bad relationship. After talking to her for a while, she didn't appear to be that type, so I calmed down a little. We ended up kissing shortly after.

Two days later, she tells me that she broke up with her boyfriend of three years so she could go out with me. Naturally, I was bit nervous at the time, but I'm glad I took a chance with her because in the following weeks, it became clear that she not only did she not have any feelings left for the guy, but she downright hated him. Especially since he was still being a pest about the breakup for about a month after we had been going out.

So anyway, my advice is to tell her to break it off if she wants to keep seeing you. If she doesn't make a decision soon, just move on. I took a risk in my situation and got lucky: We're both each other's first loves(she said her feelings for the other guy weren't near what she feels for me), and we've been together for almost a year. However, I imagine that this occurrence is not common. Even if she does choose you, though, keep your guard up.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>I'm over a year ahead of you and I'm still one. I've had the opportunity too, but it just never felt right</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>:P

No, its not wierd, normal age I think...but if you want to or are ready, I see no reason to 'wait' (coming from my hedonistic pov).</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Her boyfriend's a faggot; she just wants sex, he won't give it, that's why she kissed you. She wants you to give it to her, service the woman!!! Give her the root, unleash the terror, then give her the boot.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Lost it at 21. Some of us are just late going.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Ahhh...and now look at yourselves.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>The main problems are the expectations of the people you date. They expect you to already know all of the rules in this game. I hated the fact that the "game" was just as unnerving as job interviews. The comparisons between the two are scary.</div>