The Shrine

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>It was good, but more of a chapter than an actual book. I hope King's last installment is HUGE otherwise there was no reason to split them up into two books. The paper of the pages of SoS were so thick that i kept feeling like i was turning two pages and iwould have to double check to make sure they werent sticking together or something. King, or the publisher, obviously used thick paper to make the slightly over 300 page book appear larger.

King writing himself into the story was done well, but i still wish he didnt do it. Knowing that Roland and crew were created from King makes the rest of the series lose a little of its magic. When i read, i like to immerse myself into the characters world, of course i know that the author created the characters world, but having King spell it out in the series rubbed me a little the wrong way. Also, it was a little eerie reading King describe himself as a character in his own book. King is rounding the overall story well, but i still would have prefered if he kept real life and Roland's universe seperate. That being said, i didnt like the last chapter which was exerts from King's diary.

The cliffhanger at the end doesnt bother me because i know the last book, The Dark Tower, is right around the corner (unlike the massive gap between The Wastelands and Wizard and Glass and THAT cliffhanger, King you jerk). How Jake and Callahan with survive busting into the Dixie Pig to save Susanah is something i can only guess since that place is packed with too many bad guys. Come September we'll know what happens with everything and i certainly look forward to it.</div>

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It was good, but more of a chapter than an actual book. I hope King's last installment is HUGE otherwise there was no reason to split them up into two books. The paper of the pages of SoS were so thick that i kept feeling like i was turning two pages and iwould have to double check to make sure they werent sticking together or something. King, or the publisher, obviously used thick paper to make the slightly over 300 page book appear larger.

I agree, the last book better be huge. Frankly I wouldn't mind if it was as long as The Stand or IT.

King writing himself into the story was done well, but i still wish he didnt do it. Knowing that Roland and crew were created from King makes the rest of the series lose a little of its magic. When i read, i like to immerse myself into the characters world, of course i know that the author created the characters world, but having King spell it out in the series rubbed me a little the wrong way. Also, it was a little eerie reading King describe himself as a character in his own book. King is rounding the overall story well, but i still would have prefered if he kept real life and Roland's universe seperate. That being said, i didnt like the last chapter which was exerts from King's diary.

Obviously King's death is going to have a major impact in the next book, possibly along the lines of another Beamquake or something. Frankly I hope he stays dead and Roland and co. don't try to go back in time to save him or anything, because then I can rest assured that the whole DT universe still exists independent of King. One of my theories about the ending (which I hope is false) is that after Roland gets to the Tower and does whatever he needs to do, everything in his world will cease to be, because it never was "real" to begin with, just a world in King's head whose time has come to pass. But then again King makes a couple of predictions while under hypnotism and makes references to "Gan" and "Dis" and makes you wonder how the hell he knows about any of that.

The cliffhanger at the end doesnt bother me because i know the last book, The Dark Tower, is right around the corner (unlike the massive gap between The Wastelands and Wizard and Glass and THAT cliffhanger, King you jerk). How Jake and Callahan with survive busting into the Dixie Pig to save Susanah is something i can only guess since that place is packed with too many bad guys. Come September we'll know what happens with everything and i certainly look forward to it.

Somehow I get the feeling that there's going to be death along the way. The way Jake is talking to Callahan right before they enter makes it seem like they expect to go out in a blaze of glory. In any case, the last book better tie up any loose ends hanging around. I want to know what the deal is with Walter/Marten/Flagg. Are these guys really all the same person? Because at the end of Gunslinger it indicated Walter has been rotting away for a long time, yet now King's making a lot more references to him implying he's still alive and active. What would be really cool is if the last book included or at least made reference to events in books outside the DT canon (Black House, Insomnia to name a few). All that said though, it's good to know we don't have a long wait before the last book's finally here.</div>

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It was good, but more of a chapter than an actual book. I hope King's last installment is HUGE otherwise there was no reason to split them up into two books. The paper of the pages of SoS were so thick that i kept feeling like i was turning two pages and iwould have to double check to make sure they werent sticking together or something. King, or the publisher, obviously used thick paper to make the slightly over 300 page book appear larger.

I agree, the last book better be huge. Frankly I wouldn't mind if it was as long as The Stand or IT.

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Ish:
I guess I was the only one who thought the last book was an OK length. And my book was 400 pages. :)
Anyway, I enjoyed it overall and I wouldn't mind a long book. But I'd like it to be a Stand type of long, rather than an IT type of long (good meaty long, rather than often rambling long).
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King writing himself into the story was done well, but i still wish he didnt do it. Knowing that Roland and crew were created from King makes the rest of the series lose a little of its magic. When i read, i like to immerse myself into the characters world, of course i know that the author created the characters world, but having King spell it out in the series rubbed me a little the wrong way. Also, it was a little eerie reading King describe himself as a character in his own book. King is rounding the overall story well, but i still would have prefered if he kept real life and Roland's universe seperate. That being said, i didnt like the last chapter which was exerts from King's diary.

Obviously King's death is going to have a major impact in the next book, possibly along the lines of another Beamquake or something. Frankly I hope he stays dead and Roland and co. don't try to go back in time to save him or anything, because then I can rest assured that the whole DT universe still exists independent of King. One of my theories about the ending (which I hope is false) is that after Roland gets to the Tower and does whatever he needs to do, everything in his world will cease to be, because it never was "real" to begin with, just a world in King's head whose time has come to pass. But then again King makes a couple of predictions while under hypnotism and makes references to "Gan" and "Dis" and makes you wonder how the hell he knows about any of that.

<b>Ish:
Is King really dead? Hmmm...Maybe that report was one of those early news reports that claimed he was killed, even though he was "just" severely injured. Who knows.

But if he <i>is</i> dead, then I agree, the impact will be interesting. However, if King is dead in <i>that</i>world, couldn't there be another Stephen King in another world writing about Roland? Of course, they also heavily imply that the world this Stephen King is in is the "real one" as opposed to all the other parralel worlds ("there's no do overs"). Anyway, the universe is sufficiently confusing that King has lots of ways out (see Susannah having Roland's child). The method you suggested would indeed suck to high heaven though.
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The cliffhanger at the end doesnt bother me because i know the last book, The Dark Tower, is right around the corner (unlike the massive gap between The Wastelands and Wizard and Glass and THAT cliffhanger, King you jerk). How Jake and Callahan with survive busting into the Dixie Pig to save Susanah is something i can only guess since that place is packed with too many bad guys. Come September we'll know what happens with everything and i certainly look forward to it.

Somehow I get the feeling that there's going to be death along the way. The way Jake is talking to Callahan right before they enter makes it seem like they expect to go out in a blaze of glory. In any case, the last book better tie up any loose ends hanging around. I want to know what the deal is with Walter/Marten/Flagg. Are these guys really all the same person? Because at the end of Gunslinger it indicated Walter has been rotting away for a long time, yet now King's making a lot more references to him implying he's still alive and active. What would be really cool is if the last book included or at least made reference to events in books outside the DT canon (Black House, Insomnia to name a few). All that said though, it's good to know we don't have a long wait before the last book's finally here.

<b>Ish:
Yeah, it'd be nice to get the Walter/Marten/Flagg thing figured out at freakin' last. I think they may be similiar in the way that Cuthbert and Eddie are similiar though. There are certainly lots of chances for references to books that aren't in the direct DT series (the boy in Insomnia, the breaker in Hearts in Atlantis, etc...). Also, he still hasn't explained what exactly they did with the twins that caused them to be "roont". Or did I miss that?

At least we know that Roland doesn't go to the Dark Tower only to find Stephen King...or do we?

Anyway, more questions:

What exactly is the rose anyway? Is it a key? Is it the yin to something else's yang?

Why exactly does the Crimson King want to destroy the Dark Tower anyway? What does he think is so great about the chaos that would ensue (assuming he's not evil just for the sake of being evil)?

Why all the interest in Mordred? What's his part? I know there was talking about having him kill Roland or something, but couldn't someone else do it just as easily?
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<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '><i>Is King really dead? Hmmm...Maybe that report was one of those early news reports that claimed he was killed, even though he was "just" severely injured. Who knows. </i>

This was an event in real life. King got into a car accident and they thought he was dead, but obviously he lived. In the book, they may make that his death, as Manshoon suggested.

<i>But if he is dead, then I agree, the impact will be interesting. However, if King is dead in thatworld, couldn't there be another Stephen King in another world writing about Roland? Of course, they also heavily imply that the world this Stephen King is in is the "real one" as opposed to all the other parralel worlds ("there's no do overs").</i>

I got the same drift that the current world Eddie and Roland are in is THE world and if something did happen to anyone there there would be 'no do-overs', which is funny because i always thought Roland's world would be the one. Well, it wasnt as much as a drift as King spelling it out that that was the one world. I suppose the Tower is basically the same in each world then? Otherwise it doesnt make sense for the tet to go to the Tower in Roland's world when the real tower would be in NYC.

<i>Anyway, the universe is sufficiently confusing that King has lots of ways out (see Susannah having Roland's child). The method you suggested would indeed suck to high heaven though.</i>

About there being many ways out, i agree, reluctantly. The story has gotten pretty crazy that much of the impossible in the last book was shrugged off, which kind of bothers me. Most fantasy worlds, while fantasy, still have guidlines. All of that seems to have been thrown out the window. Like, if Flagg can put Mia inside Susanah's head, why cant he put other people inside the rest of the tet just to screw them up? This book, compared to the rest, was the most confusing and went beyond normal fantasy.

<i>Yeah, it'd be nice to get the Walter/Marten/Flagg thing figured out at freakin' last. I think they may be similiar in the way that Cuthbert and Eddie are similiar though. There are certainly lots of chances for references to books that aren't in the direct DT series (the boy in Insomnia, the breaker in Hearts in Atlantis, etc...). Also, he still hasn't explained what exactly they did with the twins that caused them to be "roont". Or did I miss that?</i>

I'm sure Flagg will be explained. Hopefully in a flashback of some of his life ala Wizard and Glass style. Dont hold your breath on King bringing all his books together, though. By mentioning the breakers he already tied together what was confusing about Hearts in Atlantis and i dont think you'll see the actual character pop up (Brautigan?).

I think he did say something about the roont. Mia brought Susanah to Discordia where she saw tables with metal helmet things and a tube from the helmet that went into the wall. I think he said something about sucking some substance that makes a twin a twin from their brain to give to the breakers to help them break. Without that substance, the twin then becomes roont and the wolves send the kids back. When asked why they didnt just kill the twins after they were done, Mia said she didnt know why.

<i>What exactly is the rose anyway? Is it a key? Is it the yin to something else's yang?</i>

I dont know, and i wish i knew too. It seems to be the lifeforce of the Tower in Eddie's world, but why it needs protecting or why it couldnt just have been stomped on earlier is beyond me.

<i>Why exactly does the Crimson King want to destroy the Dark Tower anyway? What does he think is so great about the chaos that would ensue (assuming he's not evil just for the sake of being evil)?</i>

This is the ultimate question i want answered. Evil for the sake of being evil is too easy, there has to be a better reason.

<i>Why all the interest in Mordred? What's his part? I know there was talking about having him kill Roland or something, but couldn't someone else do it just as easily?</i>

In myth, Mordred was the name of King Arthur's illigitimate kid who ends up killing Arthur. How King will grow this kid up (even with accellerated growth) to a good age to kill Roland in one book when they are so close to the end, i dont know. I think King said Mordred will take like 7 yeares to be an adult? In 7 years Roland and crew should be dead or have won. To answer your question, though; no, someone else cannot do it just as easily. They have tried to kill Roland, but failed, hes too good. They need to follow this prophecy that says Roland's kid will kill him.

Anyways, all in all i rank this book last as my favorite in the series. Lets hope the series ends with a bang and the questions are answered.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>I don't understand how things are going to be wrapped up in any way by the end of Book 7. Roland still has a huge backstory that hasn't really been filled in at all (what happened at Jericho Hill, how did Gilead fall, etc.), and not only that but it would seem that, as one of you guys already mentioned, Mordred is going to be growing for 7 years, and Patrick Danville (the kid from <I>Insomnia</i>) still has to save two men (presumably Roland and someone else) - but he's not supposed to do that for another <I>eighteen</i> years after the events of <I>Insomnia</i> (which makes it what? 2014 when he appears?). Granted, time is hardly a linear concept in this series, but this is still a hell of a lot of shit to get cleared up. All I can say is that DT Book Seven had better be a fucking <I>tome</i>.

On King's placing himself in the story: I thought it was very well-done - at least, so far it has been. I don't think it takes away from the magic of the series at all; I mean, this still isn't the <I>real</i> world we're talking about even after King reveals himself to be the writer of Roland's tale. Remember that King's character in the novel isn't just making up these characters from his imagination, he's channeling Gan or whatever. This isn't a case of "Hey, you're just a book written by me, Roland! Isn't that <I>crazy??</i> I suppose every time a book is written another universe is created!" etc., which is how I feared the story might end up. Despite a hefty dose of postmodernism, DT still remains a <I>story</i> in all aspects, and even though the author may now be a character in the story he's still <I>merely</i> a character.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '><I>I suppose the Tower is basically the same in each world then? Otherwise it doesnt make sense for the tet to go to the Tower in Roland's world when the real tower would be in NYC.</i>

What I gleaned from the books so far is that there are multiple worlds, but only one Tower. I don't know if the Tower is reachable in all worlds, but whatever world you <I>do</I> reach the Tower from it's always going to be the same Tower.

<I>I dont know, and i wish i knew too. It seems to be the lifeforce of the Tower in Eddie's world, but why it needs protecting or why it couldnt just have been stomped on earlier is beyond me.</i>

Servants of the CK can't get near the Rose. Remember how Susannah/Mia couldn't go into the lot in Book 5? I'd imagine the effects would be the same for any of the CK's minions. But presumably, if the CK can claim legal ownership of the lot then he can do whatever he wishes with the Rose (this is somewhat analogous to the idea that a vampire can't enter your home unless you invite him in - an idea that King seems to be fond of).

<I>if Flagg can put Mia inside Susanah's head, why cant he put other people inside the rest of the tet just to screw them up? This book, compared to the rest, was the most confusing and went beyond normal fantasy.</i>

Susannah is the Lady of Shadows, remember? She is one who seems especially capable of holding other personalities inside her. Did you read <I>The Regulators</i>? It would seem that Susannah's abilities mirror those of the autistic boy Seth in that book. Perhaps it's this special ability to accommodate certain "others" that allowed Flagg to conjoin Susannah and Mia, whereas he would be unable to do it with the others. Judging from Tak's actions in <I>Desperation</i> and <I>The Regulators</i> it would seem that most human bodies are completely unsuited for the task of harboring demons and some specific circumstances are required before a possession can take place.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>blah, no i havent read The Regulators, Insomnia or Desperation. I have read many of the ones that tie into DT, but not those. : /</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>They're all the same person (er, demon, perhaps?). This is cleared up in the new revised version of the Gunslinger.

Randall Flagg/Marten Broadcloak/Walter o' Dim/John Farson/Richard Fannin...they're all the same fella.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Regulators and Desperation only tie in very loosely to the Dark Tower, but they're both awesome books. Insomnia is basically a supplement to the series though, so I'd highly recommend reading it.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '><b>Link:</b> <a href="http://www.bash.org/?23396">http://www. ... /?23396</a>

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