The Shrine

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I really hate to say it, but if Clinton was there tonight, he would have had Bush for dinner. Unfortunately, Kerry just doesn't have the charisma or political saavy to take advantage of a bumbling speaker. And Bush's strength (ra ra, fake patriotic type of speaker) came through well tonight.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Couldn't disagree more. Bush tripped over his words, acted unprofessional, was repetitive and simply didn't come off as "president" material.</div>

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>While I agree that Clinton would destroy him, I think Kerry manhandled him pretty well...certainly much moreso than Gore...</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Clinton would kill anyone, Gore was at least funny as hell with his theatrics and Kerry just simply let Bush beat himself. My take at least.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>No, I think Kerry actually did pretty well. Not a knock-out blow, but I'd give him the edge tonight.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>No, I think Kerry actually did pretty well. Not a knock-out blow by any means, but I'd give him the edge tonight.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>No, I think Kerry actually did pretty well. Not a knockout blow by any means, but I'd give him the edge tonight.</div>

<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Pretty much. All Kerry had to do was speak confidently and at least semi-intelligently (to prove to people he's "presidential") and let Bush take care of the rest....But I too enjoyed the Gore strategy more.... ;)</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Kerry won this debate hands down. Bush came through sounding like a well-prepped grade school janitor in an expensive suit. Also, I though that you really disliked Clinton(?)</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>I think that Gore's performance hurt him some in his debates with Bush.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>He does, but much like a girl who's been seduced by a player's mouthpiece you must give credit when credit is due. lol.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Damn Cnn's poll says viewers thought Kerry won, 123,000 votes to 13,000. ouch.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Let's hope those will end up being real "votes".</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>With that being said, however, i do think Kerry won slightly. But, he didnt kick ass, which is what he needed to do to get back in the race.

Face it, Bush IS America; strong, cocky, slightly arrogant, and a "screw you world, we'll fight this alone if we have to and will win since we rock" attitude.

I think Kerry's weakest position is him saying he'll run to countries like France if he wins and beg for help. Fuck France, Americans dont want to hear that we'll bow down to the UN and apologize for Bush's actions. We're America, we dont need anyone!</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I'm sorry but bush got killed in both presence and attitude. Bush acting like a pissy little child. you know them. how they say the EXACT same thing over and over again using the exact same words.....</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Kerry most definitely won that debate, but anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence and public speaking skills could've beaten Bush.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>Yeah fuck it, we don't need shit! Lets put all the burden on ourselves and when we really need to defend our country we'll have to draft because we're occupied elsewhere!</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>YEah I also hope only 136000 people vote.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Quit the macho bullshit. That's what's wrong with America, too much macho bullshit. Why are we so violent? Why so many homicides? Why are the poor told that it's their own fault they're poor? Macho bullshit like what you just espoused, that's why.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>"We're America, we dont need anyone!" Unless, of course, if we're talking trade.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>uhm...I think you're stretching a bit there. You can't put all of America's problems under one hat, especially not the ones you listed</div>

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>And if we want to share the burden of an occupation.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>Macho bullshit has also made us the strongest nation in the world. Our country broke from Great Britain by macho bullshit and is why "macho bullshit" is the stereotype other countries use for us, but you know what? You cant argue with the results.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>And bushes bull shit about Quaddafhi dissarming. that fucker is just as much a terrorist as Saddam. Oh wait he actually is more of one seing as how he actually has orchestrated attacks outside his cauntry. him saying hhe's disarming is like saddam suddenly deciding he's a christian</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>So you equate a desire for freedom and Democracy with "macho bullshit"? That must be why another *well known Republican* says that we're in Iraq now: to spread freedom and democracy... Also, how the hell do you see the rest of the world as hating us because we broke away from Great Britain?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Oh yeah, Kerry won, but he should have slaughtered Bush. He let him get more in than he should have</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Macho bullshit is also what will ultimately be the demise of the US superpower. Don't believe me? Ask the Romans......or the British</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Exactly what I would have said, although not so eloquently :-)</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Me too, but Kerry should have destroyed him. What I meant was that someone like Clinton (who I despised) would have destroued Bush instead of just edging him out</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>True, but what I meant was that a more saavy and charasmatic opponent - like Clinton - would have poured a ton (or "tonne", if you're Gray :-) of salt on that open would.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I think that's where you're wrong and what Moore and a ton of other liberal not-for-profit organizations are trying to change, the perception that the majority of the American folk like that. Maybe the VERY slight majority of the voting public, but thats only half of the eligible voters....</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>*see my post in Ruminations*</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>I didnt say they hated us, only that we have that "macho" stereotype, which is true.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Tahoma; text-align: left; '>Oh please, the United States is not trying to take over the world like the Romans and Great Britain was the top world power only when the rest of the world wasnt discovered and wasnt shortly after. Very little similarities.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Actually, it was that the US was the only super power sit out and not directly engage the Nazis until the end of WW2 while everyone else was fighting. That is the exact point when the US took the lead, but that lead is not as distant now as it once was.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>The US is no where near Germany, there is an ocean between them. Whereas the Romans and Brits both were destroyed because of their wars against Germans.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Well, the French hate you because of "neutrality" during WW2</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Iraq and Afghanistan had no significant military forces, the other countries might actually be able to defend themselves. Dead troops = Americans pissed off at the government.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt Arial; text-align: left; '>The French hate me?!? Now I'm going to go cry.....</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>You keep believing that...</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>They lost because they thought they were invincible...</div>

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Oh come on give it a rest. Taking over a country actually implies ruling, it's nowhere close to that.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>See above post</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Actually, I thought he was rather aggressive with Bush. He repeated a few phrases, but not nearly as bad as Bush's "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" bullshit.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>I barely remember him mention France. Why do Republicans hate France so much?</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>As I remember, the entire world was neutral to Germany's dominations until it happened on their doorstep. The world policy at the time was "Well, if it's not my country, it's not my business". WWII taught just how wrong that was.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Meanwhile, in Iraq...1100 reported dead troops. I'm sure the unreported is much much higher.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>What pissed me off what how Bush would damn near interrupt Kerry at the end of his timer. The moderator barely had time to reset the timer. Bush is supposed to wait for the moderator to give the go ahead. Kerry, OTOH, was polite about that.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>He was aggressive....for Kerry. But that's not enough. You can see he just doesn't have the saavy to say the right things at the right time to really hit him where it hurts</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>No one likes the French, man</div>