The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Wow...Maven isn't even funny...

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #7721  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:17 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>For years, I considered making a Scrabble AI engine that could beat anybody. After all, I thought, if you get something that has access to a dictionary file, you're unbeatable.

Well, I've learned that it's a lot more complex than that when I started making my own. My initial run was an engine that would pick words based on whats on your rack and some random letters on the board. I tested it out with players on Yahoo's Literati. I didn't factor in double/triple word/letter scores, which ends up mattering more than the words themselves. My little Perl script was great at picking starter words that gave you bingo bonuses, but it was kinda piss poor with the normal game itself. I ended up playing only decently well against the opponents who were better at little words and bonus square combos than I (or it).

I was thinking of creating a better engine, but I looked up info on other engines out there. Turns out that I was reinventing the wheel. There were a bunch of <a href="http://www.gtoal.com/wordgames/scrabble.html">different engines</a> out there which were pretty much what I was planning on coding.

One stood out, though. <a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2483/ ... html">Some guy</a> was working on one back in the 1980's, and this dude spend years perfecting it. <a href="http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/aba ... ">Maven</a> is the end result. The program is fucking U-N-F-A-I-R! It is the Deep Blue of Scrabble. Actually, it's probably better than Deep Blue because it doesn't really lose, even to Grandmasters. The AI engine is currently in the official Hasbro version of the PC/Mac Scrabble game.

The program itself is very old (Win32 type shit), but it still works great. You can program where the 3L, 3W, etc. tiles are (which in Literati is different than Scrabble), as well as map the positions of everything and then have it give you the best move, which is what I wanted.

So, I tried it tonight on a few unsuspecting players on Literati. The AI was just sick. It's 1000 times better than my little script, the dictionary is perfect, it imploys strategy on which tiles to use/keep, and it completes all of this logic literally instantaneously (unlike my script which took 2-10 seconds to finish). I was getting bingos about three or four times a game, if you could even call them games, because everybody forfeited when I was getting 100-200 points ahead of them.

I stopped playing because yes, it was cheating, but it was mostly in the name of scientific curiosity. Overall, I'm impressed that somebody has created something of this sort, which is the one thing that I've wanted to see ever since I've heard of the game.</div>

 #7722  by Flip
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:47 am
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Thats is very impressive. I like to play scrabble and literati, an AI that can take that much into considerations is amazing.</div>

 #7723  by Flip
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:47 am
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Thats is very impressive.  I like to play scrabble and literati, an AI that can take that much into consideration is amazing.</div>

 #7732  by Shellie
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:54 am
<div style='font: 11pt georgia; text-align: left; '>Dammit, this ruins all of my marketing plans! ugh!! hehe ah well, onto the next...hrm...underpants....hehe</div>

 #7734  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:13 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Only because Scrabble isn't quite as complex as chess. However, it is still impressive.</div>

 #7737  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:48 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Here's a screenshot of Maven playing itself.</div>

 #7739  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:50 am
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '><img src="http://www.resonatorsoft.org/temp/maven.gif">

Here's a screenshot of Maven playing itself.</div>
 #7741  by Ishamael
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>The entire search space is already known (pick up any dictionary), so the problem is reduced to pattern matching words onto the board in high point combinations (of which there are only a few at any moment) and the opponent's probably moves probably don't need to be taken into account. Still, it's kind of neat...</div>
 #7744  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:48 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>It looks at the number of tiles already used, and try several simulations on what the opponent could have in his rack. Probability is very much a part of the game. In the end game, it knows EXACTLY what the opponent has (since you can subtract the total tiles from what's in your rack and what's on the table), and it will try to put down words that are not only good, but that blocks the opponent from putting any good words of its own.</div>
 #7756  by Ishamael
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:53 pm
<div style='font: 14pt "Sans Serif"; text-align: justify; padding: 0% 15% 0% 15%; '>Well, in my edited-but-not-really post, I mentioned that there is actually some limited (in comparison to chess) consideration of opponents moves in Maven. After the first page of one of the linked articles, it mentions all the possible move generators, one of which I didn't consider. The score-and-rack generator is the only one I thought about and "all" it does is choose a move based on the likelyhood of a good score and the kind of rack it leaves behind.

One of the other scoring generators that I didn't think about was one that considers the possiblity of an opponent scoring a bingo on their next move, so indeed the opponent's move is taken into account. Very slick, but not nearly as complicated as the chess problem which requires deep searching for several moves in order to compete against top level chess players (this is the reason your home PC can't compete against the top chess players in the world like in Scrabble).</div>

 #7760  by SineSwiper
 Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:57 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>I undeleted it because you never posted an edited message.</div>