The Shrine

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/conte ... deo3a.html

When a cop says "put the phone down and get out of the car" several times and then threatens to tase you several times and you ignore him and resist arrest, you deserve to get tased.

Some people, I swear. Sad thing is that she'll probably sue even though he could have pepper sprayed her, hit her, forcefully pulled her from the car, or several other things which would have been a lot worse.

She did deserve it.

That is the sort of behaviour you would expect from police in Saudi Arabia or Iran instead of just giving a simple speeding ticket, not the Western World. Though I do heavily dislike people who drive around everywhere (I think they are lazy worthless leeches), it is such a waste on resources and damaging to the quality of the environment. If a place is within 7 or 8 kilometers and you're not a cripple or it's not raining, just walk/jog/bike/public transportation. I am happy to see any worthless driver get beaten or shocked.

If you're black, and an officer tells you to get outta the car. Why the FUCK would you sit on the phone and yap to your friend, it's common knowledge if you're black, you bow down to white police officers. You don't GIVE them a reason to fuck you up. lol, dumb ASS.

She must have thought because she was female she had immunity.

Eric wrote:If you're black, and an officer tells you to get outta the car. Why the FUCK would you sit on the phone and yap to your friend, it's common knowledge if you're black, you bow down to white police officers. You don't GIVE them a reason to fuck you up. lol, dumb ASS.

She must have thought because she was female she had immunity.

I think it would have been much MUCH funnier had it been fat white man in a suit and a voice like Larry David.

Seek, the woman was originally pulled over for speeding/lack of seat belt/brake light out - which, true, usually just warrant a ticket - but when the officer checked the computer he discovered that she was also driving with a suspended drivers' license, which is an arrestable offense.

When the officer then told the woman she was under arrest, she then blatantly disobeyed him and continued to give him attitude, even though he warned her several times what he would do if she didn't comply.

I'd like to think that if I had been pulled over and a cop was shouting "Get out of the car or I'm going to taze you" with his tazer pointed right at me, I would <i>get out of the fucking car.</i> But that's just me.

Agent 57 wrote:Seek, the woman was originally pulled over for speeding/lack of seat belt/brake light out - which, true, usually just warrant a ticket - but when the officer checked the computer he discovered that she was also driving with a suspended drivers' license, which is an arrestable offense.

When the officer then told the woman she was under arrest, she then blatantly disobeyed him and continued to give him attitude, even though he warned her several times what he would do if she didn't comply.

I'd like to think that if I had been pulled over and a cop was shouting "Get out of the car or I'm going to taze you" with his tazer pointed right at me, I would <i>get out of the fucking car.</i> But that's just me.

Where I live, officers do not have the authority to use tasers (or any kind of violent force) unless it is in self defense. From my point of view this is clearly an incident of an officer overstepping his authority. I do believe that officer needs to be suspended from the force and charged for assault.

So, what's he supposed to do, keep asking her when it's plainly apparent that she's not going to comply?

The Seeker wrote:

Agent 57 wrote:Seek, the woman was originally pulled over for speeding/lack of seat belt/brake light out - which, true, usually just warrant a ticket - but when the officer checked the computer he discovered that she was also driving with a suspended drivers' license, which is an arrestable offense.

When the officer then told the woman she was under arrest, she then blatantly disobeyed him and continued to give him attitude, even though he warned her several times what he would do if she didn't comply.

I'd like to think that if I had been pulled over and a cop was shouting "Get out of the car or I'm going to taze you" with his tazer pointed right at me, I would <i>get out of the fucking car.</i> But that's just me.

Where I live, officers do not have the authority to use tasers (or any kind of violent force) unless it is in self defense. From my point of view this is clearly an incident of an officer overstepping his authority. I do believe that officer needs to be suspended from the force and charged for assault.

Nah dude, at some point when it's clear the person is defiant, a line is drawn, and the longer the officer stands idol, the greater the chance is that the person might become violent. It was clear from the beginning that she had a fuckin problem, then she whacked the other officer who reached in to get her. I mean you could try to be nice, but you could easily get punched/scratched/stabbed/shot being the nice guy. They have a job to do, and it can be dangerous if they hesitate.

Maybe in Happy Fun Land(Aka Canada) violence doesn't happen to your police officers and they can be friendly, but not here.

Eric wrote:

The Seeker wrote:

Agent 57 wrote:Seek, the woman was originally pulled over for speeding/lack of seat belt/brake light out - which, true, usually just warrant a ticket - but when the officer checked the computer he discovered that she was also driving with a suspended drivers' license, which is an arrestable offense.

When the officer then told the woman she was under arrest, she then blatantly disobeyed him and continued to give him attitude, even though he warned her several times what he would do if she didn't comply.

I'd like to think that if I had been pulled over and a cop was shouting "Get out of the car or I'm going to taze you" with his tazer pointed right at me, I would <i>get out of the fucking car.</i> But that's just me.

Where I live, officers do not have the authority to use tasers (or any kind of violent force) unless it is in self defense. From my point of view this is clearly an incident of an officer overstepping his authority. I do believe that officer needs to be suspended from the force and charged for assault.

Nah dude, at some point when it's clear the person is defiant, a line is drawn, and the longer the officer stands idol, the greater the chance is that the person might become violent. It was clear from the beginning that she had a fuckin problem, then she whacked the other officer who reached in to get her. I mean you could try to be nice, but you could easily get punched/scratched/stabbed/shot being the nice guy. They have a job to do, and it can be dangerous if they hesitate.

Maybe in Happy Fun Land(Aka Canada) violence doesn't happen to your police officers and they can be friendly, but not here.

I think you mean the happy normal down to earth fun land of Canada =P

I would also think in most US states that would be considered police brutality. I highly doubt that woman was in any way immediately threatening the safety of anyone. I also do believe that the laws are the same in the US, that that kind of force cannot be used so loosely.

I highly doubt that she would have received the same treatment had she been a white woman. Do you disagree?

It seemed to me that, as in most cases of this sort, there was fault on both sides here...

The officer seemed paranoid as all hell and I wonder if he overreacted, in attitude at least. But I agree that peace officers have to take caution, especially dealing with people who won't comply.

Assuming the woman didn't have a good reason to be afraid of the cop (some people do - there are corrupt cops out there), she needed to, like you guys have been saying, get out of the car and do as she was asked... But it seems like she really got nailed and one wonders if there might have been another way.

I actually had no idea that tasing was so painful, or at least it seemed to be from the way she was screaming. Either that or she was just a hypochondriac of the first water...

Mental wrote:I actually had no idea that tasing was so painful, or at least it seemed to be from the way she was screaming...

I'm sure it hurts but I have a feeling she was screaming for the sake of making a scene and being a stupid b than because it was that painful.

The Seeker wrote:I would also think in most US states that would be considered police brutality. I highly doubt that woman was in any way immediately threatening the safety of anyone. I also do believe that the laws are the same in the US, that that kind of force cannot be used so loosely.

Well, it's easy for you to make that judgement when you a) aren't a trained police officer and b) weren't there as it was happening. The truth is that you have no idea whether she could have become a threat. If she had, then everyone would have said "why didn't the officer do something before she shot him?" But, there's obviously no way that you, Seeker, could possibly just be making a moronic statement without any idea what you're talking about. Never.

The Seeker wrote:I highly doubt that she would have received the same treatment had she been a white woman. Do you disagree?

Yes, I do. Turning this into a race-issue is just a lame way to ignore the facts of her resisting arrest and acting irresponsibly and deserving what she got.

Well, as far as race goes, I do think blacks and Latinos/Latinas are treated with more suspicion by peace officers. But I understand it a lot better than I used to. I used to live in a sort of fantasy world regarding race relations, as my high school was pretty cool about it and multicultural differences and appreciation were a big part of the culture. Living in the neighborhood I do now has shown me that there's a LOT of racial hatred still out there, and there are a LOT of Latinos/blacks around here who do not like white people, and vice versa. I definitely think that treating everyone equally is to be striven for, because I believe it gives people dignity, self-worth, and self-respect.

Mental wrote:Well, as far as race goes, I do think blacks and Latinos/Latinas are treated with more suspicion by peace officers. But I understand it a lot better than I used to. I used to live in a sort of fantasy world regarding race relations, as my high school was pretty cool about it and multicultural differences and appreciation were a big part of the culture. Living in the neighborhood I do now has shown me that there's a LOT of racial hatred still out there, and there are a LOT of Latinos/blacks around here who do not like white people, and vice versa. I definitely think that treating everyone equally is to be striven for, because I believe it gives people dignity, self-worth, and self-respect.

I totally agree with trying to treat everyone equally. It'd be awesome if everyone could do that. Granted, that doesn't mean ignoring our differences and acting like we're all one race, but appreciating one another for those differences and not hating because of them.

The Seeker wrote:

Eric wrote:

The Seeker wrote: Where I live, officers do not have the authority to use tasers (or any kind of violent force) unless it is in self defense. From my point of view this is clearly an incident of an officer overstepping his authority. I do believe that officer needs to be suspended from the force and charged for assault.

Nah dude, at some point when it's clear the person is defiant, a line is drawn, and the longer the officer stands idol, the greater the chance is that the person might become violent. It was clear from the beginning that she had a fuckin problem, then she whacked the other officer who reached in to get her. I mean you could try to be nice, but you could easily get punched/scratched/stabbed/shot being the nice guy. They have a job to do, and it can be dangerous if they hesitate.

Maybe in Happy Fun Land(Aka Canada) violence doesn't happen to your police officers and they can be friendly, but not here.

I think you mean the happy normal down to earth fun land of Canada =P

I would also think in most US states that would be considered police brutality. I highly doubt that woman was in any way immediately threatening the safety of anyone. I also do believe that the laws are the same in the US, that that kind of force cannot be used so loosely.

I highly doubt that she would have received the same treatment had she been a white woman. Do you disagree?

If she had been a white woman it probley would have taken longer, but she would have still gotten served if she acted EXACTLY like that.

I need one of those for whenever some chick gives me lip in a club.

Now THAT'S entertainment....

As for all the justified, unjustified BS...she was asked repeatedly to get out, she was warned repeatedly she would be tazed...and tazing was the safest and least painful way to get her out of the car, despite her melodramatic bullshit...

Seeker, I take it those cheerful Canadian mounties would just talk the person to death if they didn't comply with an arrest? Or better yet, give the person a chance to drive away and turn the situation into a very dangerous high-speed chase! Yay, that'll work.

BTW, you are, once again, wrong in your assumptions about your own laws about Canadian police officers. A small bit of research will reveal that cops in Canada do use tasers, and there's no requirement that it needs to be self defense. Resisting arrest is enough of a reason for its use, since it's considered a tool of force. Hell, pointing a gun at a perp is also reasonable for resisting arrest. The object of an arrest is to get the perp in cuffs and taken to jail, including the use of force, if necessary.

Yes, there are cases where the use of tasers is unwarranted or misused. However, this was not one of them. If you see the full video, which gives you a much better perspective than the clip of them immediately in a confrontation, you can see that the lady was sporting an attitude towards the cop all throughout the incident. (You could also tell there was a bit of "whitey racism" there with the lady, too.)

She knew that she was caught redhanded and knew that she was going to get arrested from the moment she got pulled over. She knew that she was fucked, and the scene she caused was all about trying to get out of her situation: the arguing, the cries of "injustice" and "illegality" over getting pulled over, the refusal to cooperate, and the huge over-reaction to the tazer.

Lox wrote:Well, it's easy for you to make that judgement when you a) aren't a trained police officer and b) weren't there as it was happening. The truth is that you have no idea whether she could have become a threat. If she had, then everyone would have said "why didn't the officer do something before she shot him?" But, there's obviously no way that you, Seeker, could possibly just be making a moronic statement without any idea what you're talking about. Never.

There is nothing moronic about my statement. You are only suggesting that because you somehow find it impossible to accept any other point of view no matter how logical it is. Before you even question the validity of my statements, look at you own, you suggest that the cop was in danger of being shot; as I recall from the video, there was no such indication that the officer was in danger at all; the woman made no motions which would threaten the well being of the officer, and even if she did, there would be no way that she would be able to reach for a fun, pull it out, aim, and shoot with an officer pointing a stun gun at her. In fact, I would argue that your last statement is mornonic, because now you are just pulling out ridiculous stories to try and prove your point that she deserved to be blasted with a taser.

Now let me bring up a possibility that is quite less ridiculous than your gun slinging woman scenario. What if she had been pregnant? Do you know what the effects of 50,000 volts being fired into your body would have on a developing child? Tasers have also been said to cause lasting damage on the individual. They are incredibly painful, the shock is powerful enough to cause all of the muscles in the body to spasm erratically to the point where the person is essentially paralyzed; a paralyzing shock is how powerful 50,000 volts, quite painful. What if the person had a pace maker? Tasers are dangerous, potentially lethal, weapons (and yes, people have died from being shot by them before).

Lox wrote:Turning this into a race-issue is just a lame way to ignore the facts of her resisting arrest and acting irresponsibly and deserving what she got.

No it isn't, first of all, she did not deserve what she got, you have been the one ignoring the facts. Second of all, her race IS one of the facts in this specific case due to the unfair treatment of blacks by cops in parts of the US.

Lastly, there were many other options available besides blasting her with the taser. She had pulled over, the woman was obviously terribly frightened, especially when the policeman pulled out what she thought was a gun at her. She was freaking out, the officer did not give her any time to calm down, which he should have. There was no reason to blast her with a taser, she did not make any motions that would suggest that she was putting anyone in danger, or that she was going to try to escape. The officer was careless and impatient, and very very quick to use violence, much much quicker than the officers on the show "Cops" for example. Only on cops they don't use any form of violence unless it is to prevent someone from getting away, or if they become violently threatening themselves.



PS. Sine, you did poor research:


What are the benefits of stun guns?

Tasers are supposed to allow police officers to subdue violent individuals without killing them. A police officer can "take down" a threatening suspect without worrying that a stray bullet might kill or injure an innocent bystander.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/

I'm a Canuck, and I thoroughly approve of this Tasering.

Give a Cop attitude, ignore his instructions? She's lucky she didn't get shot, or a wicked beatdown. Especially in the US where people can carry sidearms, cops cannot take anything or anyone too lightly. They Die if they do.

Stuff the 'We are so much more progressive up here in Canada' crap. This woman got what she deserved.

The Seeker wrote:

Lox wrote:Well, it's easy for you to make that judgement when you a) aren't a trained police officer and b) weren't there as it was happening. The truth is that you have no idea whether she could have become a threat. If she had, then everyone would have said "why didn't the officer do something before she shot him?" But, there's obviously no way that you, Seeker, could possibly just be making a moronic statement without any idea what you're talking about. Never.

There is nothing moronic about my statement. You are only suggesting that because you somehow find it impossible to accept any other point of view no matter how logical it is. Before you even question the validity of my statements, look at you own, you suggest that the cop was in danger of being shot; as I recall from the video, there was no such indication that the officer was in danger at all; the woman made no motions which would threaten the well being of the officer, and even if she did, there would be no way that she would be able to reach for a fun, pull it out, aim, and shoot with an officer pointing a stun gun at her. In fact, I would argue that your last statement is mornonic, because now you are just pulling out ridiculous stories to try and prove your point that she deserved to be blasted with a taser.

Now let me bring up a possibility that is quite less ridiculous than your gun slinging woman scenario. What if she had been pregnant? Do you know what the effects of 50,000 volts being fired into your body would have on a developing child? Tasers have also been said to cause lasting damage on the individual. They are incredibly painful, the shock is powerful enough to cause all of the muscles in the body to spasm erratically to the point where the person is essentially paralyzed; a paralyzing shock is how powerful 50,000 volts, quite painful. What if the person had a pace maker? Tasers are dangerous, potentially lethal, weapons (and yes, people have died from being shot by them before).

Lox wrote:Turning this into a race-issue is just a lame way to ignore the facts of her resisting arrest and acting irresponsibly and deserving what she got.

No it isn't, first of all, she did not deserve what she got, you have been the one ignoring the facts. Second of all, her race IS one of the facts in this specific case due to the unfair treatment of blacks by cops in parts of the US.

Lastly, there were many other options available besides blasting her with the taser. She had pulled over, the woman was obviously terribly frightened, especially when the policeman pulled out what she thought was a gun at her. She was freaking out, the officer did not give her any time to calm down, which he should have. There was no reason to blast her with a taser, she did not make any motions that would suggest that she was putting anyone in danger, or that she was going to try to escape. The officer was careless and impatient, and very very quick to use violence, much much quicker than the officers on the show "Cops" for example. Only on cops they don't use any form of violence unless it is to prevent someone from getting away, or if they become violently threatening themselves.



PS. Sine, you did poor research:


What are the benefits of stun guns?

Tasers are supposed to allow police officers to subdue violent individuals without killing them. A police officer can "take down" a threatening suspect without worrying that a stray bullet might kill or injure an innocent bystander.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/

This link seems to work entirely against everything you just said. >_>


The company says there are none. Critics argue that there hasn't been enough research into the safety of stun guns. They point to the deaths since 2001 of more than 50 people in North America after Taser shocks.

On its website, the company argues that not one of those deaths has been directly attributed to a shot from a Taser:

"The fact is that TASER devices have never been named as the primary cause of death in any in custody death, and any links as a contributing factor are subjective and unsupported by clear evidence."

The company notes that 100,000 police officers have volunteered to take hits from Taser weapons – with no deaths.

In 1989, a Canadian study found that stun guns induced heart attacks in pigs with pacemakers. Ten years later, an American study concluded that weapons delivering a jolt weaker than Tasers increased the risk of cardiac arrest in people with heart conditions.

So far, no autopsy report from a death that followed an altercation with police that included a shot from a Taser has concluded that the Taser caused the death.

What's the Canadian perspective?

Canadian police say Tasers have saved 4,000 lives since police forces started using them in this country in 1999.

Still, Staff Sgt. Peter Sherstan, of the RCMP's Emergency Response Team in Edmonton, says Tasers should not be considered non-lethal.

"The RCMP's position is that Tasers are a less-lethal alternative," Sherstan told CBC Radio. "There are still risks. There could be a situation where a person hit with a Taser shot could fall and hit his head. But we have to balance that out. We have several cases where if Tasers weren't present, guns would have been the alternative."

Amnesty International Canada has been calling for a suspension in the use of Tasers until studies can determine how they can be safely used.

"Obviously police should be using non-lethal alternatives," Alex Neve, the organization's secretary general, said. "But the standards say those non-lethal alternatives should be fully investigated. We need to have a study, we need to understand what those risks are."

Neve says tests on police and members of the military may have gone well, but he notes they're among the fittest people around and not likely to suffer adverse reactions to a Taser shot. Studies, he says, have suggested that people who abuse drugs or who have heart conditions could be at risk.

Amnesty International also worries that officers might be tempted to use weapons like Tasers too often if they believe they're not lethal. Sherstan argues that shouldn't be an issue if officers are properly trained in their use.

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has asked the Canadian Police Research Centre to thoroughly review scientific research, field reports and data on the use of Tasers in police work in Canada and around the world.

The CPRC says the goal of the study is to correlate existing research on Tasers with field experience, giving police forces more information on how to properly use them.

Eric wrote:

The Seeker wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/

This link seems to work entirely against everything you just said. >_>

Not really, it provides different points of views, it only goes against my argument if you take one point of view and not the other. But what was relevent was the question of when it is right to use them.


PS. Eric, you scared the shit out of me with that long message! Don't ever do that again! =)

Coming from the minority view-point. I couldn't for the life of me figure out WHY somebody, in this particular case, the black woman, would run her mouth and give the police so much freakin lip, and try and intimidate the police officer into not taking her infomation and give a ticket or whatever.

In all honestly, like Sine said, she knew she was fucked from the get go. That's the only reason I could see her being so defensive, trying to actually bully the officer, play the race card, attempt to talk about law(which she obviously had no knowledge of), being on the phone(to provide a witness to police brutality, etc, etc).

I mean there was just too much stuff going on there. The officer probley realised this is one person who doesn't want to go to jail today, but in the end that's basically what happened.

If you're black, it's just COMMON SENSE, not to give the police a reason to fuck you. She was just fuckin stupid. She should have just gotten arrested, stepped outta the car, etc.

And despite you thinking she just got tazzed outta the blue, the other officer reached in from the other side, and apparently she struck him.

What's the alterantive? Keep asking? Riiiight..

Reach in and grab her as well? You'll probley get slugged and scratched a few times, exactly like his partner did.

Taz her ass? Wow, she'll be out cold, and you don't get hurt, and she won't either...hmmmm.

Funny. Deserved it. Can happen in Canada.