The Shrine

Maybe I'm crazy (well, that's almost a certainty), but what the hell is the issue with this? It's not like they're being wed by the catholic church, so there should be no issue with respect to the religions....unless they're trying to enforce their beliefs on the populace. I'm not gay-phobic, but I don't really condone their choices, but at the end of the day it's their damned choice. And I'm sure they can amend tax laws so that they don't get the marriage credit, but that would also be discrimiation, and isn't that what we all should fucking be eliminating? Guess this whole "everyone is equal" talk is just a farce, another front people put up.

But this is just crazy-talk, I know.....

I'm against the idea of gay marriages; but only because I feel the only reason for marriage is to raise children. As far as marriage being a "holy union" or whatever, the thought of that just makes me want to laugh out loud. =D

Zeus wrote:Maybe I'm crazy (well, that's almost a certainty), but what the hell is the issue with this? It's not like they're being wed by the catholic church, so there should be no issue with respect to the religions....unless they're trying to enforce their beliefs on the populace. I'm not gay-phobic, but I don't really condone their choices, but at the end of the day it's their damned choice. And I'm sure they can amend tax laws so that they don't get the marriage credit, but that would also be discrimiation, and isn't that what we all should fucking be eliminating? Guess this whole "everyone is equal" talk is just a farce, another front people put up.

But this is just crazy-talk, I know.....

See Seeker's reply and that's how most people think(myself NOT included mind you)

Zeus, you're of Arabic descent. You better than anyone else ought to know how, say, the majority of the Arabian peninsula feels about homosexuality. I mean, shit, in most Arabic countries, if the woman isn't a "virgin" on her wedding day, she gets killed. And thus, so is created the market in pre-stained nuptial bedsheets...

I'm not saying it's right, but hatred of homosexuality is a powerful and entrenched force in the world right now.

The problem is the (lack of) seperation of legal marriage and religious marriage in most people's minds. Just because marriage would be legal somewhere doesn't mean that the church is forced to marry you. Shit, I've had a hard enough time finding a chapel that actually allows a non-clergy to marry, and I've had to settle for one that allow a non-demoniation minister.

Just to recap: LEGAL MARRIAGE IS NOT THE SAME AS RELIGIOUS MARRIAGE!!!

Please get that through your thick skulls, people!

I am Arab and essentially no one in my family feels the same way as I do about this subject. In my culture, you essentially can't be gay, you would become a hermit. Although there are huge differences in the different Arab cultures, that seems to be one of the constants (we have Syrian, Iraqi, and Lebanese friends) along with a focus on family above all else, respect thy elders, and other traditionally old-fashioned ideals. And Mental, that whole virgin thing is really going away and only has stayed with the crazy Arabs who repress their women to all hell. Generally, this is very much tied to religion (in many cases, but not exclusive to, the Muslims).

But I've got to go with Sine on this one. I've stated many times in the past my feelings on gay people and their ways. I don't condone it in any way and I really don't like the idea of a guy looking at my ass, but that in no way means that I feel that we should treat them as secondary citizens. This is how you create unwanted and unnecessary divides and bad blood in cultures, when you try and enforce your beliefs on society as a whole. You want to get together with people and live your life a certain way, go ahead. That's the whole idea of a free society. But when you try to tell others "you can't do that even though you're not hurting anyone or anything around you", that's just wrong. I will never suck another man's cock, but if the person in the office sitting next to me wants to, go ahead. That's their life, not mine. That's just like saying that you'll respect a Christian holiday but not a Muslim one. Discriminatory crap we need to do away with.

I could go on forever about this discrimination crap and the whole separation of church and state argument, but I don't think you guys want to hear it

Mental wrote:in most Arabic countries, if the woman isn't a "virgin" on her wedding day, she gets killed.

There are no Arabic countries that have laws like that.

Want to make a bet?

My understanding was that a few of them do, and even if it's not a formal law , there are places where I am certain that it is de facto. It might not be most of them - I might have been overboard there. But it does happen.

Happens more in Islamic rural regions (religion, not culture, is the factor) including India and Pakistan. Death isn't overly often, but they do have serious repurcussions (cutting off of body parts, putting the girl in a brothel, etc.)

I have heard of it happening in south central and south Eastern Asia, Africa, South America, Oceana, and central Asia. But I don't think I know of any Arab countries where women are killed if they are not virgins when married. If you want, you can find me an article, this I think is a list of all the Arabic countries: Iraq, Eqypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait, UAE, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, and Qatar (I might be missing one or two).

Perhaps at some point I'll do the research. It would be good to know that it doesn't actually happen in places I thought it did - thank God if that proves to be misinformation. My Stanford "education" is getting to be more and more valueless by the day...

I think you got most of them. I believe Morocco and Algeria (and maybe one or two more on the North coast of Africa that I'm forgetting) are considered Arabic as well, but I'm not 100% sure. I'd also say Palestine, even though it's not internationally recognized, because it's a distinct Arabic national identity.

Wow. Goes to show how far rumors can spread...even at a supposedly national-level university...then again, I'm sticking to my opinion that a lot of Stanford's undergraduate experience isn't nearly as good as it's cracked up to be.

I did think that death was a prescribed penalty for women under sharia Islamic law for adultery, however - can anyone confirm or (please) deny this?