The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • i HATE microsoft

  • Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
Somehow, we still tolerate each other. Eventually this will be the only forum left.
 #90011  by Nev
 Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:59 pm
god i hate them...i just downloaded an update for a vulnerability in a "color management module". stupid selfish company. how the shit do you program a complete backdoor into a color management module?

and if they'd stop acting like a 1000-pound bully in the industry, and lying in court, some things might actually change.

 #90034  by Zeus
 Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:00 pm
I diss on Microshaft a lot, but in all fairness, they do have WAAAAAAAAAY more attacks on them and their products (hackers and such) than any other company. Maybe if they attacked other proggies as much they'd be just as "vulnerable"

 #90036  by SineSwiper
 Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:05 pm
Well, it's a matter of being the most popular -AND- being the most insecure. If Linux was the main OS, yes, there would be more attacks, but not near as many.

 #90038  by Nev
 Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:13 pm
There might be as many attacks, but not as many would succeed...

 #90163  by Garford
 Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:34 pm
I hope you mean "doing very well" as in "selling a lot of copies". See under my post on the board yesterday about a complete backdoor in their color management module...
I'll reply here to prevent derailing another thread.

Microsoft is doing quite well for the field I am looking at, which is as stated before, eBusiness. I refer that more towards performance/costs rather then sales.

Ultimately in the current business environment, it is down to 3 choices for your needs: Microsoft .NET, J2EE or a customized solution, probably based on CORBA.

Between the 3, doing a customized solution is the least efficient due to the amount of time required in terms of both developing the application as well as maintenance. Not to mention is will end up being more expensive.

Most existing business already has a comprehensive suite of software already existing in their business infrastructure, aka. your legacy systems and no matter what, companies will often want to keep them, instead of migrating to a totally new set of system.

J2EE has several connectors already written to integrate with these legacy systems and Microsoft’s Biztalk has several adaptors written for these legacy systems as well.

The main differences between these two implementations are that J2EE converts data from legacy systems to Java data types whereas Biztalk converts it to XML. Both have their pro and cons but its not applicable to this context.

Performance wise, if the application is heavy on transaction volume, Microsoft solutions are usually faster and in some cases cheaper due to faster execution time as there isn't an extra layer of abstraction in the form of JVM. Also, in my personal opinion, Microsoft has a better and more efficient set of connectors in place to interact with legacy systems.

On the flip side though, Microsoft solutions are slower then those based on J2EE when it comes to applications that are heavily database centric, which are your typical eCommence sites. This is especially true for applications developed on DBMS which has native-API or native-protocol JDBC drivers. Microsoft is still pretty much focusing on optimizing performance based their own MS SQL server, which as most of you know, sucks.

Security wise, I’ll say nearly all the security flaws discovered over the last two years, on Microsoft system, doesn’t really impact the general security of the entire business.

Typically, you have an application server, web server, DBMS and legacy systems, forming the backbone for information. Properly configured etc, you won’t be opening any files or scripts that can comprise security on another of these systems. The systems that are vulnerable are usually your end users and unless the administrators are lazy, security breaches should rarely escalate pass the compromised system. But this is not an excuse for Microsoft having numerous breaches, typically they exist due to relatively sloppy coding.

 #90164  by Nev
 Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:48 pm
*sigh* this needs a real response and will probably have to wait until i'm less tired. briefly, I think they do a number of things very well. however, OS security is not one of them, and neither is internet browser security. and given how many years they've been at it, I can't think of it as anything other than the corporate equivalent of fat and lazy.
Garford wrote:Security wise, I’ll say nearly all the security flaws discovered over the last two years, on Microsoft system, doesn’t really impact the general security of the entire business.
If you're talking purely about e-business software and its security, I don't know a thing about it. However, in a larger sense, I can't disagree more strongly.

I think there are most likely a number of more intangible factors that affect businesses - particularly, most likely, smaller ones that may not have as much ability to hire or retain an experienced network admin. These become much more likely to experience some form of setback or downtime due to cyberattacks.

Also, every virus that a corporation gets because of security holes in IE/XP - and there are lots - wastes company time and energy in IT resources required to fix it. I have not known any receptionists who know anything about computer security (nor should they have to), but most of the ones I've known browse the Web like crazy. Yes, a properly configured system won't allow a user to pick up viruses doing that (most of the time anyway), but then we're talking about more company time and energy lost.

If you're talking about <i>only</i> electronic transactions and things very directly related to it, I don't know much about any of the popular solutions, so you may be completely accurate when it comes to that. However, very, very few businesses are completely e-businesses, and businesses (at least to me) are a lot like any other complex interrelated system. When the "health" of one part is worsened, the rest is affected. I really, truly believe Microsoft's sloppy, monopolistic attitude towards operating system and internet design and security makes a lot of people's lives a lot worse every day.

Bear in mind, I'm not advocating replacing everything with Java, because I think Java has a number of problems too.

 #90166  by Garford
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:48 am
Mental wrote:*sigh* this needs a real response and will probably have to wait until i'm less tired. briefly, I think they do a number of things very well. however, OS security is not one of them, and neither is internet browser security. and given how many years they've been at it, I can't think of it as anything other than the corporate equivalent of fat and lazy.
Garford wrote:Security wise, I’ll say nearly all the security flaws discovered over the last two years, on Microsoft system, doesn’t really impact the general security of the entire business.
If you're talking purely about e-business software and its security, I don't know a thing about it. However, in a larger sense, I can't disagree more strongly.

I think there are most likely a number of more intangible factors that affect businesses - particularly, most likely, smaller ones that may not have as much ability to hire or retain an experienced network admin. These become much more likely to experience some form of setback or downtime due to cyberattacks.

Also, every virus that a corporation gets because of security holes in IE/XP - and there are lots - wastes company time and energy in IT resources required to fix it. I have not known any receptionists who know anything about computer security (nor should they have to), but most of the ones I've known browse the Web like crazy. Yes, a properly configured system won't allow a user to pick up viruses doing that (most of the time anyway), but then we're talking about more company time and energy lost.

If you're talking about <i>only</i> electronic transactions and things very directly related to it, I don't know much about any of the popular solutions, so you may be completely accurate when it comes to that. However, very, very few businesses are completely e-businesses, and businesses (at least to me) are a lot like any other complex interrelated system. When the "health" of one part is worsened, the rest is affected. I really, truly believe Microsoft's sloppy, monopolistic attitude towards operating system and internet design and security makes a lot of people's lives a lot worse every day.

Bear in mind, I'm not advocating replacing everything with Java, because I think Java has a number of problems too.
Well, I'm refering security more towards confidential data being compromised and other related issues, rather then viral infection, cyber vandalism and such. In that context, a well configured Microsoft OS is sufficient protection.

True, smaller companies won't usually even have a network admin and the vunerabilities present by default in a Microsoft OS is a cause of worry. People belonging in this group usually won't even update their system, or call for a network review, due to cost contraints, so I can understand what you are concern with.

In that field, any Unix base OS, coupled with say Apache/PHP/MySQL is more then sufficient for their usage, but small companies tend to shrink away from Unix as they believe it to be more for the "experts"

A properly configured server side scripting solution, where users access applications via a web browser does not have any differences be in on Unix or Windows, but its hard to convince the non technical people to adopt that.

Even a hybrid model, where the application/web servers are Unix based, while end-user accesses application via Windows based system are not popular, when it can be a good improvement to security.

Mind you, I don't like Microsoft, I just hate Unix zealots more. :P

 #90188  by the Gray
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:56 pm
I wondered where to post this, and this thread is as good as any.


I'm now a Linux user.

Downloaded and installed Ubuntu today. I couldn't believe how easy it was! If I can do it, anyone out there can. Amazing.

I'll be using it for all my browsing and WP needs, and rebooting in XP when I want to play games. I think I now qualify as an 8th Lvl Geek

 #90189  by Andrew, Killer Bee
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:10 pm
Ubuntu is lovely. Hopefully it can maintain the momentum it's had for the past few months.

 #90191  by the Gray
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:07 pm
okay, how the FUCK do you install something in Linux?

I downloaded MPlayer and I have no clue what the heck I'm supposed to do to get it going.

I'm trying to Google in order to figure it out, but it just confuses the heck out of me. They expect you to know stuff already. I'll say this for MS, at least you just have to click the damn 'setup' icon.

./configure? where and how the hell do I use this? Gah, I'm about ready to screw this already.

 #90193  by Kupek
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:21 pm
There are automated ways of installing programs in Linux, but all that I've tried are broken in some way. The directions you've found expect you know how to do basic Unix shell navigation - it's similar to using a DOS prompt, if you've ever done that.

Frankly, I wouldn't reccomend Linux for the desktop, particulary for people who aren't already familiar with a Unix environment.

 #90194  by the Gray
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:33 pm
Well I am trying to do what is is saying...

tar xvjf pkg.tar.bz2

but I get:

tar: pkg.tar.bz2: Cannot open: No such file or directory
tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
tar: Child returned status 2
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
graham@pcofdoom:~$

Is my command wrong? I have no clue. I do want to learn this however.

I'm relearning the cd, ls and pwd commands etc

 #90195  by Kupek
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:43 pm
The tar file is compressed, so the first thing you should say is

<tt>bunzip2 pkg.tar.bz2</tt>

Then

<tt>tar -xvf pkg.tar</tt>

Then, in order to install it you probably need to (as root) type

<tt>./configure
make
make install</tt>

 #90196  by Nev
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:44 pm
Learn the basic Unix shell commands first - mkdir, ls, and such.

ls will show you that, most likely, your file isn't there - it's the unix equivalent of DOS "dir".

EDIT: Whoops. Or I could just shut my mouth and stop appearing arrogant, since I know next to nothing about Unix.

 #90197  by the Gray
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:00 pm
ahhh, thanks Kup. Hadn't come across the bunzip2 cl yet.

Everything I was reading was telling me tar this and that with j instead of z etc etc.

I flipped back to XP to get some Guild Wars in tonight. I'll try that in the morning and see how it goes. Overall, I do like the simplicity of Ubuntu for browsing and basic stuff that I do other than gaming. I just thought I may like to get a movie player so I don't have to switch back to XP if I want to throw one on.

 #90198  by Andrew, Killer Bee
 Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:58 pm
Ubuntu comes with a decent automated installer - it should be in the menu somewhere. If I recall correctly it defaults to showing a smallish list of commonly-used software. There should be an "Advanced" button or something similar that launches aptitude, which is a moderately complicated installer, and which contains god knows how much software. Just have a browse.

Ubuntu is built on Debian so it should be a rare occasion that you need to install something from a tarball. If you know the name of the software you want to install, try:

apt-get install kittens

Where "kittens" is the name of the software. It'll handle all the dependancies and install it cleanly - avoid installing from source where you can, it will end up giving you nightmares.

 #90199  by Andrew, Killer Bee
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:00 am
Regarding the movie player - one should be in the small list of software to install, but if not, try:

apt-get install totem

 #90205  by Zeus
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:43 am
the Gray wrote:okay, how the FUCK do you install something in Linux?

I downloaded MPlayer and I have no clue what the heck I'm supposed to do to get it going.

I'm trying to Google in order to figure it out, but it just confuses the heck out of me. They expect you to know stuff already. I'll say this for MS, at least you just have to click the damn 'setup' icon.

./configure? where and how the hell do I use this? Gah, I'm about ready to screw this already.
And now you know why Linux is regulated to geeks and hasn't overtaken Winblows

 #90212  by the Gray
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:47 am
Thanks Andrew, Totem is on right now but it doesn't have the neccessary codecs to play DVD's.

I'm looking for this installer app.... I have no clue how to find it.


Zeus, yeah it's pretty easy to see why Linux hasn't caught on like Windows or OS/X. Not nearly simple enough for a regular user to get the hang of in a reasonable amount of time. I'm probably one of the least computer literate guys here, but I'm still not a complete moron.

Still, I'll stick with it just to increase my knowledge of computing in general.

 #90223  by SineSwiper
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:33 pm
The apt-get method of installs is G O D! The GUI interface that comes with Ubuntu makes it even easier. In a nutshell, installation of any product works as follows:

Automatically via packages - Run apt-get or synaptic (the GUI version). Try to find the package you're looking for and install it from the interface. If you can't find it, try adding the Ubuntu universe repository, and run synaptic again. (Edit /etc/apt/sources.list and de-comment the line for the Universe repository.) If you still can't find it, search around the net for a repository that has the file and add it to the sources.list. (Please note that at this point, you might run into conflicts between packages made for Debian and packages made for Ubuntu, since they are slightly different distros. I'd recommend manually installing the product at that point.)

Manually via source code - Compiling source code is not that hard, as long as there isn't any snags along the way. First, you'll get a tar file, such as a tar.gz or tar.bz2. (Tar only merges multiple files into one, while gzip or bzip2 will compress that file. This is different than ZIP, which does both steps at once.) To decompress:

tar zvxf [file] (for gzipped files)
tar jvxf [file] (for bzip2 files)

(Kupek, tar supports unzipping on the fly without two seperate commands, so you don't need to run gunzip or bzip2 first.) Now, jump into that directory and run the following:

./configure && make && make install

(Basically, that's three commands at once. The && sign means "run the next command only if the previous one succeeded". You can do the commands seperately if you wish.)

If you run into any problems, consult Google Groups with the error message. Google Groups is the best way to find an answer to a Linux problem.

As far as general Linux shell usage, be sure to be familar with the "man" and "apropos" commands. The "man" command stands for manual, and you can get help and command-line options for any command in Linux. "Apropos" is used for finding a command by its description if you don't know what the exact command is. For example, if you didn't know about apt-get, you could do a search of "apropos package" and find the command that handles package management, apt-get.

 #90235  by Andrew, Killer Bee
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:30 pm
Note that there is a good chance that our advice is going to hurt more than help, Gray, because we all approach Linux from a geek's point of view, and so are likely to start busting out command line commands and advice like 'be sure to be familar with the "man" and "apropos"' :). For your purposes, and given Ubuntu's user-friendliness, you should very very rarely need to touch a command line.

Just booted into Ubuntu for the first time in a while - the installer software is in:

Applications->System Tools->Add/Remove Programs

Most common software can be found in the list it presents; if you have need of a more comprehensive list of install software, click "Advanced". Be prepared to be overwhelmed :).

http://www.ubuntuguide.org/ is a really good resource for Ubuntu first-timers, and there's advice on how to install a bunch of different video codecs there.

 #90236  by the Gray
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:38 pm
Alright...

Sine I'm in Synaptic. That stuff about the Universe depository? wtf?

Ok, just read Andrew's post again.

Yes, I've looked through the Add/Remove program thing. Damn MPlayer-1.Opre7.tar.bz2 isn't there? Neither is the MPlayer-1.Opre7 folder.

Now the folder was automatically put in /home/graham/Desktop is that a problem? This is stupid that I can't do this.

I've tried the CL entries to do it manually... nothing.

 #90242  by SineSwiper
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:14 pm
the Gray wrote:Sine I'm in Synaptic. That stuff about the Universe depository? wtf?
Open up /etc/apt/sources.list with your favorite GUI editor. Find the line talking about the universe repository and uncomment it. Save. Close and open Synaptic.

 #90247  by the Gray
 Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:41 pm
Hmmn, found it a different way within Synaptic.

Anyway, got the damn WPlayer... but it freezes when I try to play a DVD! Arghh