This week in manga

[Don]

I've said you can tell when a series is worse when the fake information is more interesting than the real information, and I think this week marks the turning point for One Piece as it's past the point of no return, just like Naruto and Bleach is. This week's fake OP info has Luffy being injected with too much estrogen and got turned into a girl. Now I can tell you this part makes no sense whatsoever since the fake updates came out at the same time as April Fool's Day so it's extra whacky compared to normal. And yet it was more interesting, and arguably it makes more sense than what actually happened.

People have criticized that in Bleach and Naruto, if the main character is dying they'd have a cheesy way to get out of it. Naruto will either just talk to 9 Tails or he'll be infused by the spirit of fire/friendship/whatever. In the case of Ichigo he only needs some inner dialogue with himself to become 10 times powerful, and recently he even skipped that part. Sure these mechanism are kind of dumb, but they're consistent in the world once you accepted them as true. It's no more crazy than say Saiyans mysteriously come back 10 times stronger whenever they recover from a near death experience. That's just a rule of the world you can learn to accept after a while.

So what happens when Luffy is on a near-death experience? Well first we can go into the crazy logic that goes into saving him. He's pretty much already declared as dead, and then this guy offers him a chance to live in exchange for 10 years of his remaining life. Let's see here: certain death, or lose 10 years on your remaining life? How is this even a choice? If you assume Gear 2/3 shortens your remaining lifespan on an order measured in years, then he's probably already lost like 20 years on his remaining life anyway so what's 10 more? Especially compared to certain death? And yet apparently the author actually thought that by having Luffy choose the '10 years' option it's supposed to illustrate... I don't know... something.

And then there's the actual recovery. It's your standard 'even if a miracle occurs it takes at least 3 days before he'll be okay', and then after 1 day he's already recovered demanding food. Now if this is Ichigo nobody would care because he's like a living miracle in terms of beating deadlines, but Luffy is not Ichigo. In the world of One Piece you're supposed to be able to trust that deadlines are absolute. Apparently not. Maybe all Luffy needed was more meat anyway. I bet in about 30 volumes it will turn out eating meat increases your lifespan when Luffy is up to about negative 1000 years on time deducted from his remaining life. I mean he's basically using Gear 2/3 like a Hadoken/Shoryuken right now anyway despite these being moves you should not use since they directly cut into your remaining lifespan. Or maybe it turns out Gear 2 lessens your lifespan by 1 second and Gear 3 lessens your lifespan by 2 seconds.

In other news...

Naruto: Last week's caption says "Stay tuned next week for a surprising outcome to the decisive battle" and it seems like there was no conclusion after all. Sucks for the guy writing the caption. Maybe there will be a conclusion next week.

Bleach: Bleach has surpassed the point where it is no longer meaningful to write fake information about it because everything that sounds remotely interesting is quickly recognized as fake.

[Mental]

I predict Luffy lives just about about the same amount of time as One Piece remains a profitable franchise.

[Don]

I predict Luffy lives just about about the same amount of time as One Piece remains a profitable franchise.

I think OP is only behind Dragonball right now on the all time best selling manga, and it's barely halfway done since they've only gotten halfway across the world after 50 volumes. It's almost certain OP will go down as the best selling manga in history by the time it's done, if it isn't already so.

In some sense this is why it makes the whole thing so ridiculous, that you've a main character using a move that just subtracts years off his remaining timespan as if he's just throwing Hadokens in a Street Fighter game. I mean seriously, if you plan to have a series that will probably go on for another 20 years, don't have the main character start using moves that subtracts your lifespan whenever it's used.

[Mental]

Don, it's MANGA. Aren't you used to this yet?

I mean, even in Love Hina, a perfectly normal world most of the time (EDIT: other than the fact that a socially awkward teenage guy gets his face mashed into a gorgeous girl's breasts via contrived plot twists practically every issue), Keitaro routinely gets either kicked a hundred feet into the air by Naru, blown up by one of Motoko's special moves, or shot into space by one of Kaolla Su's mechas. The rules are variable depending on the propensity to either create epic adrenaline-pumping battles or their ability to invoke the usual "hilarity ensues".

I'm sure that, after the best fashions of ludicrous comic book plots everywhere, some writer will eventually either make it up that Luffy happens to be a secret member of a thousand-year-lifespan race of hidden pirate ninja Shinto kami angels, or else they'll have his health fail and drag it out for a year or so to wring people's heartstrings before killing him and then having him resurrected by the secret Retcon Fruit that only grows on a four-foot square island right in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle surrounded by secret storms that just magically happen to disappear once every thousand years and last opened up exactly a thousand years before everybody finally loses their ability to cope the ridiculousness of the plot. Feel free to make up your own explanation as well, since it'll probably make as much sense or more as whatever the series writers finally come up with.

[Don]

Even in the world of fiction there is a distinct difference between something that has 'adverse ill effects on your body' and something that 'directly shortens lifespan.'

For example in Naurto there's a whole mess of moves that has 'adverse side effects' but this just means you get carted off to a hospital after you do it. If you do it twice in a row it might mean you got to stay in the hosptial for twice as long. So that's fine.

There are 2 moves I can think of in Naruto that has the 'reduce lifespan' side effect, and those moves are very rarely used precisely because 'reduced lifespan' is not something that is reversible.

In OP you could fall from a cliff and then recover after eating meat. That's acceptable in the story. You can also carry off a nuclear bomb designed to wipe out a nation, have it blow up on you, and escape with only flesh wounds. That's also acceptable.

But reduced lifespan is not reversible, even in OP. Every since the CP9 arc started, there is always the looming shadow that Gear 2/3 reduces lifespan permanently. It is pretty clear that Luffy is supposed to do everything young, and then die young. He recklessly uses moves nobody in their right mind should use because he only cares for the present. That's not a bad character design. But it's a problem when it's done repeatedly. If Luffy is supposed to live to 100, then he's probably used up half of his remaining life already and the series is at best halfway done, not to mention you'd assume more frequent usage of Gear 2/3 as the story progresses (Luffy first used Gear 2 in around volume 40, roughly 80% through the first half of the series, and then used it 4-5 times in the next 10 volumes).

The implication is quite clear: Luffy does not have enough remaining lifespan to continue using Gear 2/3s. This is probably why he's going to learn some more powerful move that doesn't have the same drawbacks. Of course then you have to wonder what's the point of using moves that literally kill yourself and isn't even that great...

[Mental]

It may be worth mentioning that I've never seen an episode of OP and am talking right out of my ass here. Everything I know about One Piece comes from VGCats' various parodies.

[Mental]

Also,

<img src="http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/070312.jpg">

[Don]

Well in OP bandages literally can heal anything. So does eating meat. The comic you pick does illustrate that point very well. Bandages will cover wounds sustained after having a nuclear bomb blow up in your face too.

But reducing your own lifespan is not a wound. When he's in Gear 2/3 he's essentially compressing his lifespan to gain great powers for a short time. The precise wording prevents it from 'healable'.

It's pretty clear that originally the story should've ended soonish after he learned Gear 2/3 because it's supposed to be like his trump card versus the Admirals in a final showdown. Except OP is a license to print money so they can't actually end it and we know the main character has to always use his cool moves on every guy he fights. I wouldn't be surprised if the author forgot that he once said Gear 2/3 reduces your lifespan.

[Eric]

Gear 2/3 is like going Super Saiyan why would you ever want to see that only once at the end of the series?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8GIg47jVdM (4:50)

[Eric]

I've said you can tell when a series is worse when the fake information is more interesting than the real information, and I think this week marks the turning point for One Piece as it's past the point of no return, just like Naruto and Bleach is. This week's fake OP info has Luffy being injected with too much estrogen and got turned into a girl. Now I can tell you this part makes no sense whatsoever since the fake updates came out at the same time as April Fool's Day so it's extra whacky compared to normal. And yet it was more interesting, and arguably it makes more sense than what actually happened.

People have criticized that in Bleach and Naruto, if the main character is dying they'd have a cheesy way to get out of it. Naruto will either just talk to 9 Tails or he'll be infused by the spirit of fire/friendship/whatever. In the case of Ichigo he only needs some inner dialogue with himself to become 10 times powerful, and recently he even skipped that part. Sure these mechanism are kind of dumb, but they're consistent in the world once you accepted them as true. It's no more crazy than say Saiyans mysteriously come back 10 times stronger whenever they recover from a near death experience. That's just a rule of the world you can learn to accept after a while.

So what happens when Luffy is on a near-death experience? Well first we can go into the crazy logic that goes into saving him. He's pretty much already declared as dead, and then this guy offers him a chance to live in exchange for 10 years of his remaining life. Let's see here: certain death, or lose 10 years on your remaining life? How is this even a choice? If you assume Gear 2/3 shortens your remaining lifespan on an order measured in years, then he's probably already lost like 20 years on his remaining life anyway so what's 10 more? Especially compared to certain death? And yet apparently the author actually thought that by having Luffy choose the '10 years' option it's supposed to illustrate... I don't know... something.

And then there's the actual recovery. It's your standard 'even if a miracle occurs it takes at least 3 days before he'll be okay', and then after 1 day he's already recovered demanding food. Now if this is Ichigo nobody would care because he's like a living miracle in terms of beating deadlines, but Luffy is not Ichigo. In the world of One Piece you're supposed to be able to trust that deadlines are absolute. Apparently not. Maybe all Luffy needed was more meat anyway. I bet in about 30 volumes it will turn out eating meat increases your lifespan when Luffy is up to about negative 1000 years on time deducted from his remaining life. I mean he's basically using Gear 2/3 like a Hadoken/Shoryuken right now anyway despite these being moves you should not use since they directly cut into your remaining lifespan. Or maybe it turns out Gear 2 lessens your lifespan by 1 second and Gear 3 lessens your lifespan by 2 seconds.

In other news...

Naruto: Last week's caption says "Stay tuned next week for a surprising outcome to the decisive battle" and it seems like there was no conclusion after all. Sucks for the guy writing the caption. Maybe there will be a conclusion next week.

Bleach: Bleach has surpassed the point where it is no longer meaningful to write fake information about it because everything that sounds remotely interesting is quickly recognized as fake.

Err, didn't Naruto actually conclude the fight that it was having? It looked pretty concluded >.>

Bleach is pretty goddamn boring, I figure if I stop reading it for about 6 months and come back a half an hour will have passed in the actual manga.

No complaints about Eyeshield 21 Don? I'm disappointed.

[Don]

[quote="Eric]
Err, didn't Naruto actually conclude the fight that it was having? It looked pretty concluded >.>

Bleach is pretty goddamn boring, I figure if I stop reading it for about 6 months and come back a half an hour will have passed in the actual manga.

No complaints about Eyeshield 21 Don? I'm disappointed. [/quote]

When you want a surprising conclusion it usually doesn't mean like A beat B or B beat A the same way 20 times ago. I personally was going with Sakura was going to die even though she's not even in the battle itself for a surprising end. Though Naruto at least always have a reasonable good consistency when it comes to its battle scenes even if the clones are way overdone.

Eyeshield 21 wasn't translated yet at the time of the post. But this week is your typical blowout and there's really not much to be said about it. At least the author learned to not start out with like a 35 to 0 defict with 5 minutes left like the Alexander game. Panther actually injected some semblance of reality as the man that is faster than the speed of light proves that indeed when you can go faster than the speed of light, you don't have to worry about people mysteriously catching up from behind for no reason ala NFL Blitz.

I actually went back and checked, Riku only has a 4.5s running speed, but somehow he was able to teach the 4.4s Shin how to go lightspeed. Pretty sure originally the point was that he can only go lightspeed for an instant, and then somehow he ended up being able to sustain it for no problem. But then Shin is like the main character #2 so I guess he gets some freebies.

[Don]

Gear 2/3 is like going Super Saiyan why would you ever want to see that only once at the end of the series?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8GIg47jVdM (4:50)

But when you turn into Super Saiyan it doesn't shorten your lifespan. That's a key difference there.

Toward the end of DBZ one of the guy was saying how transforms really don't do you much good anyway, I've a feeling eventually OP will go that way, it will be like 'Whoa guys Gear 2/3 was totally dumb, we should have just used sea diamond (whatever the special materal that counters Devil Fruit is) plated weapons all along!"

[Eric]

Blackbeard cancels out Devil Fruit users powers, he's shaping up to be the last boss I think, so it'll be interesting to see how they handle that.

From my understanding Shin and Sena both have the same speed 4.2, Panther is 4.1.

Riku didn't teach Shin how to run 4.2, he taught him the Rodeo Drive to perfect his Trident Tackle, Shin earned that speed through training(If any of you feel the need to comment on how ridiculous this all sounds, don't, we're already there).

[Don]

Blackbeard's ability actually is pretty useless against anybody who doesn't have Devil Fruit power since he takes like double damage from anything.

Shin was always a 4.4... he got into 4.3X at some point but said that light speed is still out of reach for him. Since Rodeo Drive allows you to go at 120% speed for a short while, the implication was that if the 4.3X Shin learned Rodeo Drive then he can go lightspeed for a short time. And yet magically he can just maintain 120% of his top speed forever ever since he learned Rodeo Drive.

I mean at least before Gaoh showed up, the whole point was that you need light speed to tackle someone who is at light speed. And then the series turned into NFL Blitz at some point. They even had a part explaining the guy carrying the ball is slower than the guy not carrying the ball if they had the same base speed. Like seriously? The ball is that heavy? Or is that aerodynamics? Nah, must be NFL Blitz physics going.

[Eric]

Shin was always a 4.4... he got into 4.3X at some point but said that light speed is still out of reach for him. Since Rodeo Drive allows you to go at 120% speed for a short while, the implication was that if the 4.3X Shin learned Rodeo Drive then he can go lightspeed for a short time. And yet magically he can just maintain 120% of his top speed forever ever since he learned Rodeo Drive.

I mean at least before Gaoh showed up, the whole point was that you need light speed to tackle someone who is at light speed. And then the series turned into NFL Blitz at some point. They even had a part explaining the guy carrying the ball is slower than the guy not carrying the ball if they had the same base speed. Like seriously? The ball is that heavy? Or is that aerodynamics? Nah, must be NFL Blitz physics going.

You're mistaken, Rikku taught him the Rodeo Drive, which he combined with his Spear Tackle to create the Trident Tackle. The Trident Tackle was shown repeatedly before he showed everyone that he also gained the the speed of light. The Trident Tackle itself is the Spear Tackle but like you said moving 120%. It's far faster then the original.

http://www.onemanga.com/Eyeshield_21/203/01/ is the actual chapter where he learned it.

http://www.onemanga.com/Eyeshield_21/217/20/
http://www.onemanga.com/Eyeshield_21/217/21-22/

Is where he shows everyone that he's gone into the realm of the speed of light, and everyone is shocked.

He earned the speed of light through training, not from Rikku, which if covered in the next chapter when it shows the White Knight's training regiment.

Coincidentally in the latest chapter, this week he combined his light speed with the trident tackle. To make the Light Speed Trident Tackle, which umm Panther brushed off. >.>

[Don]

When he was learning the Rodeo Drive he said he needs to be faster or he can't keep up with Sena. If he already had light speed he wouldn't need to be faster because that's the limit you can go up to unless you're Panther.

It also seems pretty obvious if you can do 4.4 at 100% speed then you can obviously do 4.2 at 120% speed... probaly faster, but obviously 4.2 is like some kind of physical limit you can't surpass in ES21.

It makes no sense if he can already do light speed normal, why would he need to upgrade his Spear Tackle. Even after his Mt. Fuji training he was still pretty far away from the 4.2 and he even said this isn't a limit you can just surpass easily since it's like the difference between the speed of sound and the speed of light.

[Eric]

The Rodeo Drive isn't that type of technique, the Rodeo Drive is a temporary boast, not something you sustain.

If he was using the Rodeo Drive in that way the manga would have specifically said something to that effect "Using the Rodeo drive to get into the world of the speed of light." or something to that effect.

Shin went from 4.67, to 4.37, it's not out of the question to assume with his work ethic that he got to 4.2.

[Don]

Shin already said the difference between 4.4 and 4.2 is the difference between the speed of sound and speed of light. That's why he's been stuck on 4.4 for a very long time. Even after he returned from Mt. Fuji he only went to like 4.3X.

It's pretty clear originally he can only hit light speed with the 120% speed boost from Rodeo Drive. At some point the author forgot that and he just has light speed normally anyway. I mean even in the same story you got one scene where Shin and Sena are neck to neck since they both got light speed, and then the next scene where Sena had a head start you have Shin catching up because of NFL Blitz physics (Sena is slowing down because he's carrying the ball). If you go against someone who is like one speed tier higher than you, it's supposed to look like say Shin versus Panther in the latest arc every single time. That is the whole point of ES21 originally where if you're fast enough then it doesn't matter what super moves the other guy has because you can just run past him. Of course at some point that become 'speed doesn't matter as long as you're strong enough.'

[Eric]

I disagree, and I'll leave it at that. :p

[RentCavalier]

NERRRRRRRDS!

Though, I only say that because I've just not found any new animes that really interest me. I also have nothing to contribute to this thread.

...I'm sorry.

*hands in nerd card*

[Mental]

It's okay, RC. I've been wanting to make some similar comment about this thread for days, but then I remembered some of the arguments I've been involved in over Final Fantasy battle systems, which means I not only have no right to judge and have to tolerate but actually ought to be supporting discussions like this.

Eric, Don, do your thing. Ain't nobody hatin'.