The Dark Knight

[Mully]

Umm....I going to go out on a shaky limb here.

Dark Knight was good. It was action packed. It was disturbing to cheer for the Joker. It was entertaining. It was fun to sit and cheer with the fanboys in a crowed summer blockbuster theater. It wasn't that great and that fantasic. It was what you want from a summer blockbuster.

Don't read this as MULLY HATES THE DARK KNIGHT, because I don't. This was a fun, dark movie. DK wasn't Spiderman 3, but it also wasn't Citizen Kane or Godfather 2 either. It was not the best movie ever (link), which IMDB hailed, but it also wasn't anything resembling Ewe Boll.

My reason's are contained in Spoilers:

• Great acting? Bale, great playboy socialite, not a great Batman. Everyone says the voice was overdone, so I'm not going to go into that...but it was. I've said this from the beginning of the Batman franchise, most were good Bruce's, but not Batman's. Maybe it was the suit that made the Batmen look bulky and slow...too slow.
  
  Ledger was awesome. AWESOME. I couldn't wait to see the Joker in the next scene...but that was the problem altogether.
  
  The Batmobile: The Batmobile (in this series of the movie) was developed by Wayne Enterprises for a defense contract. So, it had to be displayed and developed by people. Why was the accountant guy the ONLY one on the planet who knew anything about it besides Morgan Freeman? Wouldn't some one from the government know about it? Some one besides the accountant from from Wayne Enterprises? Someone put the tires on the thing. Someone touched the batmobile prior to it hitting the streets Batman style.
  
  The "Bat-cycle"- Laborious! When that thing had to take a turn...it took a TURN! The cycle was barely mobile. The tire was huge! A regular motorcycle should have came from the rear...it would have fit at least 4 crotch-rockets. I doubt the bat-cycle could have done the 180 wall turn.
  
  Why did Maggie G thank Bruce Wayne's apartment was "the safest place in the city?" The Joker had already been there and breached his security.
  
  I did not care that Rachel (Maggie G) died. That scene was suspense-less. I didn't feel Harvey Dent's pain in seeking revenge. I didn't feel for him at all, in fact, I couldn't wait for him to become Two-face.
  
  Near the beginning of the movie, when Batman and the knock-off batmen where fighting the scarecrow, Batman, after getting thrown off the vehicle, jumped about 2 stories down onto the traveling van...and DESTROYED it. The van stopped in his tracks (that was the beginning and end of scarecrow in this movie)...later in the movie when Joker pushes Maggie G out the window in Bruce's apartment, Batman dives after her. They fall and fall and fall about 40 or more stories. Batman didn't appear to throw a cable or didn't attach a safety line or even use his fluttering bat wings, they just fell. Maggie G was on top of Batman. Batman landed on his back on a vehicle. They fell roughly 40 stories and landed on Batman's back which landed on a car. $3,000,000 body armor or not, that would kill both of them.
  
  The mayor had eye liner on.

Off point: A great article from The Wall Steet Journal comparing Batman to George W Bush. ... It's actually neither a pro- or anti- Bush article.

When heroes arise who take those difficult duties on themselves, it is tempting for the rest of us to turn our backs on them, to vilify them in order to protect our own appearance of righteousness. We prosecute and execrate the violent soldier or the cruel interrogator in order to parade ourselves as paragons of the peaceful values they preserve. As Gary Oldman's Commissioner Gordon says of the hated and hunted Batman, "He has to run away -- because we have to chase him."

[Lox]

The guy who played the mayor always has eyeliner on, even in Lost. Not sure why.

Also, when did the Joker breach the security at Wayne's place? If you mean during the fundraiser for Dent, then that wasn't Wayne's place.

As for your other issues, I pretty much disagree with all of them which means you're wrong. Just kidding...but, yeah, I do disagree with all of them!

[Mully]

Why do you disagree?

No, they were in his apartment. He had a secret passageway and everything.

Looking up to confirm...

Imdb in the plot synopsis, confirms "As Harvey Dent's fund-raiser at Wayne at penthouse gets underway, Rachel and a nervous Dent arrive and mingle."

[Mully]

Another plot point "spoiler" that was weak: The magic bullet


Batman went to a crime scene where he saw two dead police men, one named Harvey and the other Dent. Batman took a fragmented bullet and recreated the fragments from another bullet, and recombined all the data in cg from the second bullet and used it like a jigsaw to re-piece the bullet back together. I understand how forensic's works, but did you see that gun they fired the bullet from? It was a mini-gun...they didn't kill the two officers with a mini-gun, did they?

Could he take a look at the magic bullet from the JFK assassination, please?

[bovine]

I thought dent's character was good. I was happy when (SOMETHING HAPPENED IN THE MOVIE). Batman loves no one, so get out of the movie.

Other than that I find your complaints to be minor nitpicks in an otherwise glorious film.

[Lox]

Why do you disagree?

No, they were in his apartment. He had a secret passageway and everything.

Looking up to confirm...

Imdb in the plot synopsis, confirms "As Harvey Dent's fund-raiser at Wayne at penthouse gets underway, Rachel and a nervous Dent arrive and mingle."

Ah, you're right. I forgot about his little passageway. I'm guessing the reason it was the safest is because the Joker wouldn't look for her there and even if he would she could at least trust Bruce and Alfred. She couldn't say that for anywhere else in the city. It could be safer since the security could be a bit beefed up when the place isn't full of partygoers. So I don't count that as a "hole" really.

As for the other reasons, maybe I'll get around to posting later. Too much to say and I don't feel like typing it all when I'm supposed to be working.

[Flip]

The movie entertained my afternoon which is all well and fun, but i dont think ill go see it 2-10 times like some people i know and some of you on the board.

I havent read a lot of in-depth reviews, but i did read this thread all the way, now, and i agree with Mully on a lot of his points.

- The batman voice was annoying.
- The action was, as is the case with ALL fighting movies nowadays it seems (the most criminal being Transformers), too fast and furious. To the point where you have no idea what happened besides batman winning
- Batman hurts himself from a 4 story fall in the end but survives a 40 story fall with the chick
- Dent's loss of his 'love' was a poor excuse for him to go psycho and against all his principles. I loved the good Dent, and thought the movie developed that extremely well. The transformation, to me, was out of character, which means the movie failed in that respect to convert the viewer.
- I didnt like the animal cruelty.
- There was a post here not too long ago that made fun of Bay and his hypothetical batman script... in one scene in that fake script there was a boy in the car with his mom, the boy says something to the effect, "Mommy look a flying batman." and the mom replies, "I'm too busy with my latte and cell phone, shut up." boy sees the batmobile fly by and says, "Whoaaa." I laughed out loud reading that, thinking that is JUST like Bay, what a tool. This movie has the EXACT same stupid scene with the two boys in the backseat of a car shooting with their fingers when suddenly, WHOAAA!!!!, cars blow up and batman goes whizzing by on his bike leaving perplexed faces on the kids. Utterly retarded.
- The MC Agusta Wayne took out and rode would have a thousand times better handing than the batcycle. Guns rigged to the MVA would have done a better job being believable.
- Speaking of which, nothing is remotely believable... but thats fine, i can live with that since it is a comic book movie. I wont try to make sense out of ALL the ridiculous things that could never happen... Like the money trail, weapon building, weapon obtaining for the bad guys, the cell phone sonar, the hidden identity (they can make cell phone sonar, but noone though that a facial recognition program placed against batman's jaw and chin would reveal he is Bruce Wayne?), etc.
- On that note, though, is this a comic book movie? The tone tries to pass everything off as real, or that it COULD happen, but then it does ridiculous stuff... the entire atmosphere sort of confused me that way.
- The PG-13 rating made a lot of scenes with potential suck. I.e. the pencil in the eye (was it an eye? who knows) or the killing of the jigga crime boss. We never even saw what the joker did to that guy. "Why so serious?", cut scene, dead jigga.

I suppose im not a blockbuster movie guy anymore. Crappy acting (yes, Bale), CG messes, too much pointless action, and explosions do the opposite effect on me, i get bored. We've grown up with this same shit over and over and over, i place more value on a good story and engaging characters than i ever have before. Hollywood knows this, which is why we do see some amazing movies every so often, but they will never slaughter the golden cash cow that is 'the summer blockbuster', and i guess i need to learn to avoid them, or be slightly disappointed. Batman was a blow 'em up, high budget, B and A actor catastrophe, that while entertaining, doesnt deserve an Oscar nod for anything.

The joker was awesome, but he was in the wrong movie. I would so much have preferred to see a joker villain in a movie similar to No Country For Old Men. Javier Bardem rules in that movie, so i would never dream of replacing him, but a movie with a psychopath killer like the joker in a REAL world would be above and beyond a better movie. Hell, a movie like that could even surpass Otis in The Devil's Rejects as the most sinister and insane of villains. Its sad that ledger is dead and we'll never see something like that from him.

Conclusion, its a summer popcorn flick. I you think this was dark, then you dont watch dark movies. The two movies i already mentioned kick batman is his dark balls, make him eat them, then force a regurgitation so he can eat them again. Batman had the potential to be dark, very very dark with the joker, but the PG-13 rating, the CG fluff, and the impossible feats of batman makes it fantasy fun. Which if that is what you want, that is fine, but when someone tells me this is a dark movie that is flawless, epic, and perfect... well it isnt. I prefer a movie like the original, that knows what it is supposed to be; a fun flick with flashes of brilliance, as opposed to one who tries too hard to be brilliant and is simply fun.

[Julius Seeker]

Well Mully, I am going to agree with you that it is overrated, but Heath Ledger just recently died, it was destined to be overrated. I still think it's a great movie; and probably my favourite since Casino Royale. Anyway, a couple of videos I found entertaining:

Joker vs. Joker
Batman vs. Batman

One thing Nicholson had over Ledger as the Joker was the crazy ad-libbed lines. I mean: "never rub another man's rhubarb", what the fuck was that about? =P

[SineSwiper]

Nicholson had nothing over Ledger. Watching the Keaton movies just makes me cringe, knowing that much better versions exist now.

[Zeus]

Nicholson had nothing over Ledger. Watching the Keaton movies just makes me cringe, knowing that much better versions exist now.

Different types of films. The Keaton ones were still excellent in their own right, just more in a dark, comic-book style than a gritty, realistic style

[Flip]

Nicholson had nothing over Ledger. Watching the Keaton movies just makes me cringe, knowing that much better versions exist now.

Different types of films. The Keaton ones were still excellent in their own right, just more in a dark, comic-book style than a gritty, realistic style

Which is exactly my point... aside from the joker, the new movie wasnt gritty and realistic at all. The new movie needed to decide what it wanted to be, since it was neither, it was a conundrum.

[Zeus]

Nicholson had nothing over Ledger. Watching the Keaton movies just makes me cringe, knowing that much better versions exist now.

Different types of films. The Keaton ones were still excellent in their own right, just more in a dark, comic-book style than a gritty, realistic style

Which is exactly my point... aside from the joker, the new movie wasnt gritty and realistic at all. The new movie needed to decide what it wanted to be, since it was neither, it was a conundrum.

See, I thought it was exactly the opposite. I felt that Dark Knight was much more gritty and "realistic" than even Batman Begins, which I felt was gritty a couple years ago.

But if you compare either of Nolan's flicks to Burton's, I don't think there's much of an argument. Nolan's are definitely far more leaning to the gritty and realistic side

[Lox]

Nicholson had nothing over Ledger. Watching the Keaton movies just makes me cringe, knowing that much better versions exist now.

Different types of films. The Keaton ones were still excellent in their own right, just more in a dark, comic-book style than a gritty, realistic style

Which is exactly my point... aside from the joker, the new movie wasnt gritty and realistic at all. The new movie needed to decide what it wanted to be, since it was neither, it was a conundrum.

I'm not sure why you don't think it was gritty and realistic. Because it had some over the top action moments? I thought it was very gritty and much more realistic than most comic movies. Heck it was grittier and more realistic than some non-comic movies I've seen. I'm going to have to disagree with your take on it. It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good. I know you don't think it was dark enough because it wasn't as dark as some other movies you named. But why do we have to rate the "darkness" of a movie to make it good? I thought DK was dark enough to fit the story and to fit this point in Batman's career. Any darker and it would have been too much.

It has the over-the-top action beause Batman is a superhero. If you couldn't believe some of the stuff that happened, then maybe you should stop seeing movies that aren't based 100% in reality because that's kind of the point of movies like this. I liked The Dark Knight because it took some fantastical elements and put them into a realistic setting and I thought it worked very well.

[Flip]

Different types of films. The Keaton ones were still excellent in their own right, just more in a dark, comic-book style than a gritty, realistic style

Which is exactly my point... aside from the joker, the new movie wasnt gritty and realistic at all. The new movie needed to decide what it wanted to be, since it was neither, it was a conundrum.

I'm not sure why you don't think it was gritty and realistic. Because it had some over the top action moments? I thought it was very gritty and much more realistic than most comic movies. I'm going to have to disagree with your take on it. It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good. I know you don't think it was dark enough because it wasn't as dark as some other movies you named. But why do we have to rate the "darkness" of a movie to make it good? I thought DK was dark enough to fit the story and to fit this point in Batman's career. Any darker and it would have been too much.

I guess it is just the realistic part that bothers me, and i am a nitpick, but not a hater just to be one!

[Lox]

Which is exactly my point... aside from the joker, the new movie wasnt gritty and realistic at all. The new movie needed to decide what it wanted to be, since it was neither, it was a conundrum.

I'm not sure why you don't think it was gritty and realistic. Because it had some over the top action moments? I thought it was very gritty and much more realistic than most comic movies. I'm going to have to disagree with your take on it. It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good. I know you don't think it was dark enough because it wasn't as dark as some other movies you named. But why do we have to rate the "darkness" of a movie to make it good? I thought DK was dark enough to fit the story and to fit this point in Batman's career. Any darker and it would have been too much.

I guess it is just the realistic part that bothers me, and i am a nitpick, but not a hater just to be one!

To each his own. If that's the issue you have, then I can understand why you didn't really like the movie for those reasons. Personally, I liked the realistic setting with the over-the-top superhero stuff, but, hey, that's why they make so many movies. Different movies for different people!

[Mully]

It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good.

I wasn't nitpicking it. I enjoyed the movie. It just wasn't the greatest movie ever. There's no nitpicking about it. I'm just saying the movie probably won't stand the test of time over regular movies (read "non-comic book movies") and WILL NOT be hailed as one of the "GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME!!!" as I heard when I came out of the theater.

I could eat my words, but it's like saying Die Hard is one of the greatest movies of all time...just ain't gonna happen.

[Flip]

It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good.

I wasn't nitpicking it. I enjoyed the movie. It just wasn't the greatest movie ever. There's no nitpicking about it. I'm just saying the movie probably won't stand the test of time over regular movies (read "non-comic book movies") and WILL NOT be hailed as one of the "GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME!!!" as I heard when I came out of the theater.

I could eat my words, but it's like saying Die Hard is one of the greatest movies of all time...just ain't gonna happen.

I agree with every word. The hype here is just as guilty. Like i said in my conclusion, its a good popcorn flick summer blockbuster that doesnt deserve an oscar nod for anything, but was entertaining.

[Lox]

It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good.

I wasn't nitpicking it. I enjoyed the movie. It just wasn't the greatest movie ever. There's no nitpicking about it. I'm just saying the movie probably won't stand the test of time over regular movies (read "non-comic book movies") and WILL NOT be hailed as one of the "GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME!!!" as I heard when I came out of the theater.

I could eat my words, but it's like saying Die Hard is one of the greatest movies of all time...just ain't gonna happen.

Your "points" against the movie were meager at best. Maybe you think they were substantial, but I thought they were nitpicks and I stand by that.

And actually, Die Hard is still considered one of the best action movies as far as I'm concerned. It's still a movie I can sit down and watch today and love. Like the Lethal Weapons also. I'm not going to stand up and proclaim TDK as one of the greatest movies of all time though I will proclaim it as one of my favorite movies of all time (my exact words were "one of the best movies of all time for me" - the "for me" part is the key). There's a subtle but important difference there.

[Mully]

It feels more like you're hating just because it's so popular so, like Mully, you're nitpicking to prove it wasn't that good.

I wasn't nitpicking it. I enjoyed the movie. It just wasn't the greatest movie ever. There's no nitpicking about it. I'm just saying the movie probably won't stand the test of time over regular movies (read "non-comic book movies") and WILL NOT be hailed as one of the "GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME!!!" as I heard when I came out of the theater.

I could eat my words, but it's like saying Die Hard is one of the greatest movies of all time...just ain't gonna happen.

Your "points" against the movie were meager at best. Maybe you think they were substantial, but I thought they were nitpicks and I stand by that.

And actually, Die Hard is still considered one of the best action movies as far as I'm concerned. It's still a movie I can sit down and watch today and love. Like the Lethal Weapons also. I'm not going to stand up and proclaim TDK as one of the greatest movies of all time though I will proclaim it as one of my favorite movies of all time (my exact words were "one of the best movies of all time for me" - the "for me" part is the key). There's a subtle but important difference there.

Don't take my critique of the movie as a person slam "against you." I 've never said LOX you suck because TDK was par. Also, I've also said 'movies regarded as the greatest movies of all time,' I simply left out "regarded by the general populace as..." to help save some writing.

TDK was mostly "shock and awe." New stunts, new guys (joker and two face), a waste of two characters (two face and Maggie G (plot devices that the movie could have done without). The said two face may return, but may be alive and Aaron Eckhart "definately wants to return," but that would make the end of the movie RETARDED since Gordon reports Batman killed Twoface/Dent and "we need to chase him" scene would be retarded, if they don't what a short, quick way to end a long running movie. It feels as if they wanted to end the movie rather quickly for no reason whatsoever except to hurry up because they were already at the 2 1/2 hour mark. Why even put two face in the movie? the joker was so awesome, the movie would have been BETTER with only one bad guy... (think spiderman3).


did they never explained why everyone used to call him two face back before harvey dent was the DA?

[Flip]

"did they never explained why everyone used to call him two face back before harvey dent was the DA?"

Well, he worked internal affairs, so he was a cop, who investigated cops. I guess you kinda have to know how that works and how two faced those people are. I related it to internal audit departments and they are def two faced.

The two face villain should have been saved for the sequel, IMO.

[Mully]

"did they never explained why everyone used to call him two face back before harvey dent was the DA?"

Well, he worked internal affairs, so he was a cop, who investigated cops. I guess you kinda have to know how that works and how two faced those people are. I related it to internal audit departments and they are def two faced.

The two face villain should have been saved for the sequel, IMO.

Yeah, but they already screwed Two-Face up with Tommy Lee Jones that way. Billy Dee Williams was originally Two-Face in the original Burton Batman. BDW was contracted to do it, but instead they opted for the OVERLY campy movie as we know it... BDW still got paid what he would have.

[Lox]

Oh, don't worry. I'm not taking any of it personally.

I just think the movie is more than just shock and awe. It's enjoyable for me...one I can see multiple times without complaint and that can't be said for many movies. I'll have seen this one at least 3 times in the normal theater and will probably see it more once it's second run.

I thought the story with Dent/Two-Face was done very well and I believed it even knowing the backstory from the comics very well. I actually thought it was a very compelling secondary story to the struggle between Batman and Joker and was the perfect ending to the movie. I am of the opinion that he didn't really die anyhow and that his death was a coverup to allow him to be a martyr for Gotham and that Batman and Gordon are going to try to recover Harvey Dent. Their failure to bring back Dent could even be the premise for the 3rd movie, if it's made.

[Mully]

true. i never thought of it as just "Harvey Dent" dying...but both of them.

[Zeus]

Oh, don't worry. I'm not taking any of it personally.

I just think the movie is more than just shock and awe. It's enjoyable for me...one I can see multiple times without complaint and that can't be said for many movies. I'll have seen this one at least 3 times in the normal theater and will probably see it more once it's second run.

I thought the story with Dent/Two-Face was done very well and I believed it even knowing the backstory from the comics very well. I actually thought it was a very compelling secondary story to the struggle between Batman and Joker and was the perfect ending to the movie. I am of the opinion that he didn't really die anyhow and that his death was a coverup to allow him to be a martyr for Gotham and that Batman and Gordon are going to try to recover Harvey Dent. Their failure to bring back Dent could even be the premise for the 3rd movie, if it's made.

With Angelina Jolie as the Catwoman.....if the rumours are to be believed :-)

[kali o.]

Nitpicky bullshit. The movie can get a realistic nod as being one of the best comic movies to date.

The only genuine critique is that many of the characters EXCEPT the Joker ended up feeling like props (and that includes Batman, which is a little weird). Was it writing that made it that way? Or was Heath Ledger really that good? Or did the editting department shave the whole film that way, just to highlight Ledger in light of his death?

Who knows...it'll be really interesting to see an extended version or directors cut on video.

[SineSwiper]

Characters as props? No way. There was a lot of character development with Batman, Gordon, Harvey Dent, and of course, the Joker.

And comparing this to Die Hard? Fuck NO!

[kali o.]

I watched it 3 times so far, and I just don't agree (except for the Joker...which was my whole point).

- Batman. Bull....I didn't feel there was any character development here except a vague attempt at wanting to "pass the mantle" to be 'with' another character who recieved even less treatment during the film - Rachael. The other arc was the whole "dropping to the level of the criminal", which I suppose was intended to be the counterpoint to Dent's descent into the villanous role...neither received adequate screen time or got fleshed out, which made it all fall a little flat.

- Gordon. Aside from being Batman's bitch and disappearing for a good portion of the movie, I don't see what you see. Guess I'll give it a 4th viewing...

- Harvey Dent. Again, this was obviously intended to mirror Batman's dilemma - Dent just required the nudge to go over the edge. I think we got one good scene (where he stole the schizo and flipped the coin until Batman showed up), but I can't help but feel a lot of Dent's footage was cut from the film...because as it stands, his change to Two-Face in the hospital makes almost zero logical sense in the final theatrical cut.

/shrug

[RentCavalier]

I watched it 3 times so far, and I just don't agree (except for the Joker...which was my whole point).

- Batman. Bull....I didn't feel there was any character development here except a vague attempt at wanting to "pass the mantle" to be 'with' another character who recieved even less treatment during the film - Rachael. The other arc was the whole "dropping to the level of the criminal", which I suppose was intended to be the counterpoint to Dent's descent into the villanous role...neither received adequate screen time or got fleshed out, which made it all fall a little flat.

- Gordon. Aside from being Batman's bitch and disappearing for a good portion of the movie, I don't see what you see. Guess I'll give it a 4th viewing...

- Harvey Dent. Again, this was obviously intended to mirror Batman's dilemma - Dent just required the nudge to go over the edge. I think we got one good scene (where he stole the schizo and flipped the coin until Batman showed up), but I can't help but feel a lot of Dent's footage was cut from the film...because as it stands, his change to Two-Face in the hospital makes almost zero logical sense in the final theatrical cut.

/shrug

I disagree--I think it's constantly alluded to how everyone breaks down, but Harvey doesn't exactly turn into Two-Face--he doesn't become neccessarily EVIL right off the bat. He just decides to take justice into his own hands, and in a way, become like Batman...except a Batman who kills people.

[SineSwiper]

Well, he didn't actually break his one rule. He just wanted to take the fall so that Dent didn't.

His point was that he shouldn't be the hero. He became a vigilante to break the rules and overstep the law. Dent was supposed to be the hero that could survive by still following the law.

As to Kali's comment about Gordon, he didn't get as much character development as the other three, but you do get to see a bit of the separation (and sometimes, lack of) between job and family that he has to deal with.

[Chris]

I watched it 3 times so far, and I just don't agree (except for the Joker...which was my whole point).

- Batman. Bull....I didn't feel there was any character development here except a vague attempt at wanting to "pass the mantle" to be 'with' another character who recieved even less treatment during the film - Rachael. The other arc was the whole "dropping to the level of the criminal", which I suppose was intended to be the counterpoint to Dent's descent into the villanous role...neither received adequate screen time or got fleshed out, which made it all fall a little flat.

- Gordon. Aside from being Batman's bitch and disappearing for a good portion of the movie, I don't see what you see. Guess I'll give it a 4th viewing...

- Harvey Dent. Again, this was obviously intended to mirror Batman's dilemma - Dent just required the nudge to go over the edge. I think we got one good scene (where he stole the schizo and flipped the coin until Batman showed up), but I can't help but feel a lot of Dent's footage was cut from the film...because as it stands, his change to Two-Face in the hospital makes almost zero logical sense in the final theatrical cut.

/shrug

I disagree--I think it's constantly alluded to how everyone breaks down, but Harvey doesn't exactly turn into Two-Face--he doesn't become neccessarily EVIL right off the bat. He just decides to take justice into his own hands, and in a way, become like Batman...except a Batman who kills people.

not to mention multiple times before tht they set up his coin flip and relative instability before the burning

[Mully]

Nitpicky bullshit. The movie can get a realistic nod as being one of the best comic movies to date.

Agreed. Maybe. What do you mean "best comic book movie to date" exactly? Best adaptation of a comic book, or most grossing (money) comic book movie, or most entertaining comic book movie? Anyone forget about 300? Sin City? The Crow? V for Vendetta? The soon-to-be-released Watchmen?

There are many comic book movies people forget originated as comic books that are fantastic like Ghost World, Akira, Heavy Metal, Ichi the Killer, OLD BOY, A History of Violence, Men in Black, Mystery Men, Red Sonja, Rocketeer and others.

Final thoughts on this post: I believe Iron Man was as good or better than TDK.

[bovine]

Final thoughts on this post: I believe Iron Man was as good or better than TDK.

Yeah, I kicked that around in my head for a while. However, I found that Iron Man didn't have a very good villain. It was a great movie (and HELLO Gwenyth Paltrow, when did you get sexy red hair and freckles?!?!?), and I was easily as "wowed" by Iron Man, but Ledger was too good of a villain. It was just weird seeing The Dude as a villain and not in Tron or with a white russian.

[SineSwiper]

There are many comic book movies people forget originated as comic books that are fantastic like Ghost World...

Why was Ghost World your first choice? I mean I haven't seen the movie, but back when it came out, people told me to avoid it like the plague.

EDIT: Here's the post. And I asked the question again recently, but never got an answer.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

I mean I haven't seen the movie...

Of course.

Ghost World is good! Kupek is wrong. Also, young Scarlett!

[RentCavalier]

I watched it 3 times so far, and I just don't agree (except for the Joker...which was my whole point).

- Batman. Bull....I didn't feel there was any character development here except a vague attempt at wanting to "pass the mantle" to be 'with' another character who recieved even less treatment during the film - Rachael. The other arc was the whole "dropping to the level of the criminal", which I suppose was intended to be the counterpoint to Dent's descent into the villanous role...neither received adequate screen time or got fleshed out, which made it all fall a little flat.

- Gordon. Aside from being Batman's bitch and disappearing for a good portion of the movie, I don't see what you see. Guess I'll give it a 4th viewing...

- Harvey Dent. Again, this was obviously intended to mirror Batman's dilemma - Dent just required the nudge to go over the edge. I think we got one good scene (where he stole the schizo and flipped the coin until Batman showed up), but I can't help but feel a lot of Dent's footage was cut from the film...because as it stands, his change to Two-Face in the hospital makes almost zero logical sense in the final theatrical cut.

/shrug

I disagree--I think it's constantly alluded to how everyone breaks down, but Harvey doesn't exactly turn into Two-Face--he doesn't become neccessarily EVIL right off the bat. He just decides to take justice into his own hands, and in a way, become like Batman...except a Batman who kills people.

not to mention multiple times before tht they set up his coin flip and relative instability before the burning

Oh man, call me a nerd for this, but when he first pulled out that coin, I got chills, real honest chills, because I KNEW where that coin would lead him.

[Mully]

Why was Ghost World your first choice? I mean I haven't seen the movie, but back when it came out, people told me to avoid it like the plague.

I'd read something about Ghost World not to long ago ...it was just on top of my head.

[Zeus]

There are many comic book movies people forget originated as comic books that are fantastic like Ghost World...

Why was Ghost World your first choice? I mean I haven't seen the movie, but back when it came out, people told me to avoid it like the plague.

EDIT: Here's the post. And I asked the question again recently, but never got an answer.

It was along the same lines as Garden State for me. I figure if you liked one, you'll like the other

[kali o.]

Oh man, call me a nerd for this, but when he first pulled out that coin, I got chills, real honest chills, because I KNEW where that coin would lead him.

Ya but you see, that's the great thing about knowing the history going into the movie. I think for everyone else, the leap just didn't make any sense.

I mean, Dent is sitting in the Hospital with the Joker hovering over him...beyond the brief glimpse given in that one scene I mentioned (flipping the coin with the schizo till Batman shows up), we never actually glimpse the instability of Dent's "goodness".

When the Joker placed that gun in Dent's hand, he should blown the Jokers head off....because nothing prior shows why he wouldn't.

I mean hell, maybe I'm wrong. I will watch it again...but I'm totally convinced that a large portion of Dent's story was cut from the release.

EDIT: Also, Ghost World was a comic book movie? I vaguely remember watching it -- I don't remember anything comic-booky about it. If I recall, it had that Thora Birch chick as a weird girl, and Steve Buscemi as an akward guy that likes antinques or someshit...?

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Yep, you've got the right film. It was based on a comic by Dan Clowes. His stuff isn't particularly comic-booky.

[Zeus]

EDIT: Also, Ghost World was a comic book movie? I vaguely remember watching it -- I don't remember anything comic-booky about it. If I recall, it had that Thora Birch chick as a weird girl, and Steve Buscemi as an akward guy that likes antinques or someshit...?

Yeah, I was shocked when my bud told me about that too. Particularly for such as Garden State-like film. Usually there's more action, grit, forward plot movement, etc., in a comic

[Chris]

Yep, you've got the right film. It was based on a comic by Dan Clowes. His stuff isn't particularly comic-booky.

Never ever fucking say that again.....there is no such thing as a comic being not comic booky enough....jesus christ...it's a medium....not a fucking genre.

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Calm down. It's a fact that when you say "comic book" people tend to think of a particular genre of comic book, and Clowes' stuff is well outside that genre. That's the context in which I was using it as a descriptor.

[Kupek]

It was along the same lines as Garden State for me. I figure if you liked one, you'll like the other

I loved Garden State and hated Ghost World. Garden State had a point; Ghost World didn't.

Also, I'm avoiding the Dark Knight discussion because I know if I let myself get sucked in, I would write take an hour writing replies.

[Lox]

Also, I'm avoiding the Dark Knight discussion because I know if I let myself get sucked in, I would write take an hour writing replies.

Give in to the temptation. You know you want to.

[Eric]

Also, I'm avoiding the Dark Knight discussion because I know if I let myself get sucked in, I would write take an hour writing replies.

Unfortunately Don isn't into comic book movies so we need somebody to fill the void in this conversation.

[Blotus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Garden State is an abomination of a movie, and a rallying cry for emo-indie-faggots everywhere (if you'll pardon the expression).

"Good luck exploring the infinite abyss"...... VOMIT!

[Zeus]

It was along the same lines as Garden State for me. I figure if you liked one, you'll like the other

I loved Garden State and hated Ghost World. Garden State had a point; Ghost World didn't.

What? I stopped watching Garden State after 35 minute solely because NOTHING HAPPENED. I was shocked, ZERO occurred during the first 1/3 of the flick. I stopped watching Ghost World for the same reason

[Zeus]

Also, I'm avoiding the Dark Knight discussion because I know if I let myself get sucked in, I would write take an hour writing replies.

Unfortunately Don isn't into comic book movies so we need somebody to fill the void in this conversation.

I'm curious how I got quoted for Kup's reply :-)

[Zeus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Garden State is an abomination of a movie, and a rallying cry for emo-indie-faggots everywhere (if you'll pardon the expression).

"Good luck exploring the infinite abyss"...... VOMIT!

I've been trying to be a little more PC as Kup and I have had debates on the flick before, but this is basically an extreme version of my impressions on the flick too. We all discussed this a few years back, it's like deja vu

[Mully]

It was along the same lines as Garden State for me. I figure if you liked one, you'll like the other

I loved Garden State and hated Ghost World. Garden State had a point; Ghost World didn't.

What? I stopped watching Garden State after 35 minute solely because NOTHING HAPPENED. I was shocked, ZERO occurred during the first 1/3 of the flick. I stopped watching Ghost World for the same reason

What do you mean nothing happened? In the first five minutes you find out his mom dad, his dad had been doping him for his whole life on meds, the girl has some head injury or something going on with him, his friend invented silent...silent velcro.