The Shrine

<a href="http://hbo.com/thewire/">The Wire</a>: without doubt the best show on television at the moment, and quite possibly the best television drama ever.

Anybody watching it?

Better than House? This is possible?

Long answer: apples and oranges. Comparing them is like comparing (and I risk derailing my own thread here, heh), say, Saving Private Ryan and the Thin Red Line. I like SPR and it exhibits pretty incredibly artistry and a mastery of the medium, but it's meant to pull crowds and there are sacrifices made to achieve that result. I imagine that the Thin Red Line failed at pulling crowds, but it's art; it speaks to the soul in a really profound way. I really enjoy House, and a lot of the time I don't really enjoy the Wire (in the same way, anyway), but the Wire is fucking art.

Short answer: yep, better than House.

Wow, it must be amazing then. I'll take you up on the recommendation. I'll have to watch it some time. The way I see House, it is a brilliant series, of course to me it is art because it is one of the few that I have ever seen which thinks outside of the box, and it works. House, to date, is the most brilliant TV series I have ever seen, it had me hooked after watching just the first episode; it had me in love with the series before the end of season 1.

If this one is even close to as good, it is worth watching. If it is better, it is worth buying.

THREAD RESURRECTED!!!!!!!!!


I love it so far. I'm half way through the second season now. Have you seen it all, Andrew?

Hmmm, while i also love House, Andrews comparison makes for a good argument... I must have missed this thread back in the day and i'll also have to check it out. Netflix, here i come!

Yep, I've seen all of it so far and cannot wait for the next season. Apparently they're filming it at the moment! Woooooo!

I discovered the Wire just after the end of the third season and I think the best way to watch it is in as few huge chunks as you can manage. I watched season four week to week (until the second half of the season was leaked) and it was brutal; like only being able to read one chapter of a really awesome book per week. If I had the strength of will to resist and no fear of the spoiling power of the internet I'd hold out till the end of the season to watch the next series. Alas!

The first and fourth seasons are my favourites, but there's not a one that isn't stunning. I loved season two, and spent the first three or four episodes of it waiting for Frank Sobotka to turn into a bad guy (because he was being investigated by Major Crimes, and they only investigate bad guys, right?!!).

I've downloaded seasons 1-4. Currently...


SPOILERS!

Stringer had somebody from DC arrange the killing of D'Angelo in prison. Which I really didn't like. D was one of my favorites and this was only made worse by Stringer banging D's woman.

I'm not into season 2 as much as I was 1, but it's certainly getting better.

Season 2 is definitely tricky, just 'cause it's so different from the first season. My girlfriend loved the first season but almost gave up on the Wire after a couple of episodes of the second; she couldn't get into it. Thankfully she toughed the first few episodes out and got sucked back in .

How do I do spoiler tags?

Even if season 2 is a wash for you, though, if you liked season 1 you'll love season 3. It basically wraps up all of season 1's loose threads, as it again follows the Barksdale crew and their investigation by the MCU (as well as a heap of other stuff).

Season 4 focuses on Baltimore's busted education system and the rise of a new (and EEEEEEVIL) drug lord.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:How do I do spoiler tags?

Change the font color to that of your background.


Well, I'm glad I know somebody who's into the show since NONE of my friends have seen it or even heard of it. With this, The Sopranos, and Six Feet Under, HBO is uncontested when it comes to dramas. No question.

Black Lotus wrote:Change the font color to that of your background.

Ahh right, was hoping there'd be a solution that doesn't screw people that have got user styles turned off .

Black Lotus wrote:Well, I'm glad I know somebody who's into the show since NONE of my friends have seen it or even heard of it. With this, The Sopranos, and Six Feet Under, HBO is uncontested when it comes to dramas. No question.

Yeah, no doubt. The Sopranos + Deadwood + The Wire was a trifecta of unearthly delights.

I have never seen The Wire, or even Homicide, but I just finished reading <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Corner-Year-Life- ... r=8-1">The Corner</a>, and it is amazingly depressing. David Simon wrote it with a former Baltimore police officer, Edward Burns. Simon, a former Baltimore Sun reporter, is the creator of The Wire and Homicide.

I'm sure the shows are compelling, but The Corner is not fiction. It's about real people, and for that reason, even the mundane details are gripping. There are people in Third World refugee camps that live better lives than some of the addicts they write about.

I haven't read the book or seen the miniseries but I've heard that the Corner is fantastically compelling and soul-crushingly depressing.

There's a character called Bubbles in the Wire that's addicted to crack and there have been some complaints that he's not real enough, and particularly that he's not as miserable as a crack addict ought to be (note that he is plenty miserable).

I read that David Simon addressed these criticisms by referring people to the Corner, which is as miserable as a story about crack addicts living below the poverty line should be, but is almost unwatchably depressing.

I won't watch the HBO miniseries. Reading about these people is hard enough. I don't think I could bear watching their lives reenacted.

I liked Rome. Rome ROCKED.

They should make a Rome, but about ancient Egypt or about the Chinese Dynasty.

I miss Rome. I miss Carnivale even more. And I'm still waiting for BSG to get back online.

Just had to post this David Simon quote:

David Simon wrote:My standard for verisimilitude is simple and I came to it when I started to write prose narrative: fuck the average reader. I was always told to write for the average reader in my newspaper life. The average reader, as they meant it, was some suburban white subscriber with two-point-whatever kids and three-point-whatever cars and a dog and a cat and lawn furniture. He knows nothing and he needs everything explained to him right away, so that exposition becomes this incredible, story-killing burden. Fuck him. Fuck him to hell.

Hahahahahahahah. Oh, my god. I agree with the general sentiment, but I've never seen it expressed quite like that.

Finished season 2....





Stuff...............................
And it ends again where Daniels' crew doesn't make the big case. Oh well... I wonder if this is a running theme throughout the series, given the depressing nature of it. Carver's big speech on the roof of a police car was pretty rad, though. Interested what will happen between Stringer and Avon in the future, as Avon conceeds to dealing with Prop. Joe, as Stringer is already doing anyway. What will happen if Avon finds out if Stringer was behind D'Angelo's death?? Great series... and yes, Andrew, you're the only one who knows what the fuck I'm on about. Just trying to keep this thread bumped until I catch up.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:There's a character called Bubbles in the Wire that's addicted to crack and there have been some complaints that he's not real enough, and particularly that he's not as miserable as a crack addict ought to be (note that he is plenty miserable).

It's heroin, foo.
And after finishing two seasons, I found it funny that......


There have been no mentions of Johnny and Bubbles having AIDS. Johnny says to Bubbles (season one), while in a rehab facility, "I have the bug".... which I can only assume he meant was HIV, given the needle-sharing nature of the drug. I'll write this shit, but I still don't want you to tell me anything. Going to start season three now. w00t.

Black Lotus wrote:It's heroin, foo.

Oh shit, yeah! Forgot about that.

Re. Bubbles and Johnny: I'd hope that Bubs would be smart enough not to share a needle with someone with AIDS. I don't remember Bubs mentioning whether or not he has the bug in a later series. Given his general crusty, ill-looking appearance, it's hard to tell.

Re. the end of season two: just keep in mind tha The Wire is meant to be a tragedy . There are moments of small triumph here and there, but Simon has stated that he's shooting for tragedy in the ancient Greek sense, and he doesn't miss. The shit that happens in later seasons! Oh man. You'll know what I'm talking about.

How fucking rad was it when Prez decked Valchek? Oh man, the look on Daniels' face was priceless. And that musical sequence that culminated in Sobotka going to meet the Greek! So awesome, and horrible.

Definitely do your best to not spoil yourself. There are some moments of genuine heartbreak ahead that you need to experience unspoiled.

Kupek wrote:I'm sure the shows are compelling, but The Corner is not fiction. It's about real people, and for that reason, even the mundane details are gripping. There are people in Third World refugee camps that live better lives than some of the addicts they write about.

Speaking as someone who has some experience with the world of meth users, I'll almost guarantee you that people in Third World refugee camps who are actively taking care of themselves have a better shot at living standards than hard drug abusers who don't.

I know someone who meth for years, and years. She's now homeless (though clean last time I talked to her, thank God) and frequently doesn't know where her next meal is coming from. I try to help her out where I can, but the helplessness of her situation hits me so hard that it's difficult for me to even contact her sometimes, on the cell phone that I bought her.

Hard drug addiction is no joke. Frequently the drug slips into the role that was previously occupied by self-care activities of some sort, in my experience, and when your daily shower/breakfast/lunch/dinner/fulfilling interpersonal relationship is replaced by a meth hit that makes you feel just as good without any of the actual health-giving effects in the long term, I would guess that the Third World refugee camp is likely to surpass you soon in living standards.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:Re. the end of season two: just keep in mind tha The Wire is meant to be a tragedy . There are moments of small triumph here and there, but Simon has stated that he's shooting for tragedy in the ancient Greek sense, and he doesn't miss. The shit that happens in later seasons! Oh man. You'll know what I'm talking about.

How fucking rad was it when Prez decked Valchek? Oh man, the look on Daniels' face was priceless. And that musical sequence that culminated in Sobotka going to meet the Greek! So awesome, and horrible.

Definitely do your best to not spoil yourself. There are some moments of genuine heartbreak ahead that you need to experience unspoiled.

Ah hell...

Prez shoots an undercover cop! That poor fucker... He went from being a universal joke to actually being useful on the taps and he fucks up again.

Best show evar.

ALSO!...

Deputy Rawls at the gay bar gave me a big LOL.


MORE..........



The way Avon and Stringer were played against each other was sooo well done. And the execution of Stringer by Omar and the muslim was pure gold.

Careful with the quoting there! Looks like it obliterates my spoiler tags.

But yeah, <font color="white">poor old Prez. He makes a return in season four though, hooray! The pure fucking tragedy of his shooting that cop was that he didn't really screw up. The only thing he <i>may</i> not have done was identify himself as police</font>.

And the way that <font color="white">the Barksdale crew just collapsed was somehow tragic also. Amazing that after all of his evil shenanigans I was still sort of hoping he'd survive that confrotation with the Brother and Omar</font>.

And! Season four is <i>fucking awesome</i>.

I finished the first disk of The Corner, and its great. Once i finish the second disk, i'll start getting some Wire seasons for sure.

I'm half way into season two and i fucking love it. I get pissed if i dont have the next disk at home from Netflix... thus, the next 10-15 on my queue are all The Wire, ha. I love complex and serious storylines.

I also liked The Corner... gut wrenching stuff, but not quite as depressing as you all led me to believe. The best part is at the end, when they do a quick interview with the real people that The Corner is about.

The Wire trumps The Corner, but like Kup pointed out, The Corner is real, which adds another element of fascination.

I haven't seen the HBO series of The Corner. If the show is not soul-crushingly depressing, then I suspect that the level of production and acting gets in the way. I recommend the book.

Only 73 more days until season 5.

Also, this is the oldest active topic, started over a year ago.

Black Lotus wrote:Only 73 more days until season 5.

Also, this is the oldest active topic, started over a year ago.

I dug it up.

Shit, i came back to read some of the spoilers because i thought you, BL, were still talking about Season 2, which i just finished... but one your posts def mentions a few things that hasnt happened, please in the future, mention what season yoru spoilers are coming from!

I'm 4 eps into season 3 right now with the remaining disks in transit: Season 3 starts right into it, which is fine, but they also added a few random characters and didnt explain why, which is weird, but i can live with it. I like the drug sotry line, but also REALLY liked the port one in season 2 while they kept you in the loop with Barksdale. IMO season 2 was way better than 1, the characters and story stepped it up to a new level. I liked all the port guys and it was crushing to see the way it ended. I agree, Andrew, that the musical scene and the ending of the ep with Frank walking to his death was phenominal.

Flip wrote:Shit, i came back to read some of the spoilers because i thought you, BL, were still talking about Season 2, which i just finished... but one your posts def mentions a few things that hasnt happened, please in the future, mention what season yoru spoilers are coming from!

No dice, Flip. You're just going to have to be more careful in the future.

I guess I could mark spoilers by season, but it's going to cost you a kitten.

Brotherhood is better.

WTF is Brotherhood?

Isn't that the show where one brother is a politician and the other is a crook?

Wow, ok, i am through Season 3 now and am waiting for 4 to be released on DVD... it cant come soon enough! I am very interested in how they can keep things going with the way season 3 ended, but i have faith in the writing staff, so im sure it will be amazing. I've grown to like the new characters, so if it focuses more on them, that is perfectly fine.

SPOILS:

I do with they kept Barksdale out of jail. The Marlo, Barksdale fued was getting good and when Stringer was out of the picture, i thought an epic gang war was in the pipeline... only to be disappointed. Avon is a smart dude and knows the game is supposed to be more gangster and less business. I liked Stringer when he was running things, but it makes sense how all his plans fell apart. I suppose he got wehat he deserved. Brother and Omar... damn, that is one hell of a combination... i hope they can work together again in the future.

Season 5! It's on! Torrents for the first couple of episodes are available in the usual places. I'm excited!

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:Season 5! It's on! Torrents for the first couple of episodes are available in the usual places. I'm excited!

AHHHHhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh! NO WAI!

Shit, I've got 1-7 on the go, but can't find 3 or 4.

Man, i've been sent the first disk of season 4, but the 2nd is on looooong wait. In the meantime i finished up Deadwood (love!) and started Rome (love!).

I need my wires, soon... but even if they do i'll have to wait a bazillion years until the DVD's come out.

Flip wrote:Man, i've been sent the first disk of season 4, but the 2nd is on looooong wait. In the meantime i finished up Deadwood (love!) and started Rome (love!).

I need my wires, soon... but even if they do i'll have to wait a bazillion years until the DVD's come out.

You dumb bastard. The joys of the Wire await your download.

Andrew did you watch any of this yet? A lot of the files I have are shit quality and out of sync.

Ten minutes of the first episode. Quality was fine, but it was my second download — the first copy I grabbed was irritatingly out of sync. Haven't touched any of the other episodes yet.

I've now watched episodes 1, 2 and 3. Jesus Christ. This season is not going to end well.

I just finished season 4 on DVD... i'll give the last season time to finish then try and find a quality DL for all of them.

On Chris and Snoop, this season:

Whatever charge I got out of it last season, whatever pleasure I got out of their dialogue, their jokes, is over. Chris and Snoop show up on screen and I just want them to leave.

...from <a href="http://heavenandhere.wordpress.com/2008 ... d/">Heaven and Here</a>, a really excellent Wire blog.

The Wire is pretty consistently soul-crushingly cynical and tragic, but this season... Jesus. Only a few Wire incidents have affected me like <font color="white">Butchie's death</font>: <font color="white">Wallace's murder, Bubbles' hanging himself, and Randy getting set upon at the very end of season four.</font> And fuck me, but there's a lot of horrible stuff that's probably happening this season: <font color="white">I'm expecting Michael, Omar and Duquan to all be killed, for McNulty and possibly Lester to end up in prison, and for Daniels' career to be ruined.</font>

Fuck. Fuck! I wish somebody would leak the whole season so I could get it out of my system.

Shit is, indeed, fucked.

I'll comment more when you're up to where I am. I can't fully remember what happened in what episodes so I dont' want to spoil anything.

Man, I can't believe you watched the episodes out-of-order. That's criminal.

Fuck me, but it's taking all my willpower not to do the same.

Just finished episode 5.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST <font color="white">OMAR</font>!

...and I've just finished 6. I've got 7 downloading and I hope to fucking Christ the rest of the season is leaked soon.

hahahahahaha. I love the show but hate it at the same time. it's weird.