The Shrine

Wow... just wow. I know you have to make Moore with a grain of salt and a shot of Tequilla but goddamn.

I'm dating a girl who is between jobs and her insurance ended and one of the meds she was on was going to cost $400 off insurance. So... I think there are some fucking holes in the medical and pharmacy system.

Downloaded and watched the screener, huh? Can't believe it was available a solid three weeks before release. I'm curious if it'll hurt the opening weekend numbers much.

Zeus wrote:Downloaded and watched the screener, huh? Can't believe it was available a solid three weeks before release. I'm curious if it'll hurt the opening weekend numbers much.

Who? little ole me?

Zeus wrote:Downloaded and watched the screener, huh? Can't believe it was available a solid three weeks before release. I'm curious if it'll hurt the opening weekend numbers much.

Who cares, if the message gets out? After all, isn't that why Moore makes movies? Or is it just for the money?

Philosophically, I doubt Moore minds if some people pirate his movie, as long as they see it. But you must keep in mind that revenue from ticket sales is what allows him to make the movies.

For what it's worth, I have an interesting perspective on our health insurance system...

I was classified bipolar back in about 2000 or so, but I didn't have insurance at the time, and from what I understand, now that it's 2007 and I've had various issues related to the condition, it's more or less impossible to get insured unless it happens through an employer. This gives me the interesting choice of "pursue my independent game development career, which is probably my only real inspiration at this point" or "have health insurance".

Back in 2003-2004 when I was prescribed nearly $600/month in meds to take (no insurance on any of this, and I paid those for about a year), it was a really pretty damn frustrating experience, especially since I'm not on any of those meds now as a result of a doctor switch and my own desire to get off that pricey med cocktail, and I'm doing a *hell* of a lot better.

The thing is, I don't tend to get mad because I think I've instinctively have sort of had an understanding of what Moore is attempting to talk about in the movie: that the medical establishment is severely problematic with respect to a good number of its clientele, not just me. I've adjusted my expectations to "if you need to go into a hospital, and you come out with most of your body's functionality intact, consider yourself lucky".

I consider myself more blessed than a lot of people, because if something *does* go seriously wrong with me and the medical establishment fails to handle it in a way consistent with sanity, I'm not going to be particularly poleaxed.

Would be kind of nice to break the back of the pharmaceutical lobby, though. They are out of fucking control, in my opinion. Go into a shrink's office and you'll see samples of very powerful, mostly unknown-as-yet drugs sitting around like candy, waiting to be prescribed to a whole host of unhappy people at the slightest report of depression. Misprescription of all of that shit is probably one of the biggest parts of my comical medical history, but money talks. About ten g's of that money probably came out of my pocket, too, but it's not like I'm the only one.

SineSwiper wrote:

Zeus wrote:Downloaded and watched the screener, huh? Can't believe it was available a solid three weeks before release. I'm curious if it'll hurt the opening weekend numbers much.

Who cares, if the message gets out? After all, isn't that why Moore makes movies? Or is it just for the money?

No one runs away from money, man. It's always a substantial factor, why else would you keep making the movies? Like Kup said, he MAY be one of those guys who doesn't mind the pirating quite as much since he cares about getting his message out as much as money. I'd like to think that.....

Considering his success (Columbine made $16M in theatres and it didn't have wide release) and the fact that Sicko was an expensive documentary at $9M budget, I don't think he'll have too much of an issue getting funding for his documentaries any time soon. It'll probably surpass that budget in the first day and triple it in the first weekend.

See, Nev, if you were up here, the meds woulda been covered by your basic, free health care which you get for just being a citizen of the country. Whenever we're talking about a necessity (insurance, banking, health care) with very little competition and it is not highly regulated and monitored on a very granular level, you're going to get corruption, inefficiences, and essentially end up with an industry that's sucking money from the people while returning as little as possible to increase profits. You should see the banking fees we pay in this country, they're fucking crazy.

All of these types of industries need their balls cut off and the gov't should be like a watchdog on them at all times. I have this silly idea that's what governments are for, to do what's best for the people......

Zeus, I hope you're not ignoring the glaring problems with Canada's Universal Health Care, right? Yes, US is pretty bad too, but you guys haven't exactly been doing much better either.

But your overall assessment is right...these things suck ass (oil companies, anyone?) but I couldn't tell if you were claiming Canada had solved the health care problem or not.

Zeus wrote:See, Nev, if you were up here, the meds woulda been covered by your basic, free health care which you get for just being a citizen of the country. Whenever we're talking about a necessity (insurance, banking, health care) with very little competition and it is not highly regulated and monitored on a very granular level, you're going to get corruption, inefficiences, and essentially end up with an industry that's sucking money from the people while returning as little as possible to increase profits. You should see the banking fees we pay in this country, they're fucking crazy.

Are you proselytizing for Canadian socialized medicine, or should I avoid that like the plague it's supposed to cure as well? Can't tell.

Nev wrote:Are you proselytizing for Canadian socialized medicine, or should I avoid that like the plague it's supposed to cure as well? Can't tell.

I think he's...ahem....proselytizing for socialized medicine, and citing the lack of socialization in banking and US medicine as examples of why privatization doesn't work.

I think socialized banking would be a good idea. Every fucking bank is the same. They all rave about their "free checking" as if they were the first to invent it. Or at least regulation it. They should do the same thing for oil companies. Make it a utility.

Wikipedia wrote:Canada's health care system is a publicly funded health care system, with most services provided by private entities. It is important to understand that it is not a true public system, even though the government and others have called it so.[1][2] In Canada the various levels of government pay for about 70% of Canadians' health care costs, which is about average for a developed country. Canada is unusual in that the government pays for almost 100% of hospital and physician care, but contributes very little in areas such as prescription drug costs, dental care and Emergency Medical Services in Canada.

So, keep in mind that Canada's system is still different than the rest of the world.

You guys are assuming that the government is both competent to administer such a system and free enough of corruption to handle it without horrible, terrible abuses. I am not convinced of either one in America right now. Talk to me again after the 2008 regime change.

Tessian wrote:Zeus, I hope you're not ignoring the glaring problems with Canada's Universal Health Care, right? Yes, US is pretty bad too, but you guys haven't exactly been doing much better either.

But your overall assessment is right...these things suck ass (oil companies, anyone?) but I couldn't tell if you were claiming Canada had solved the health care problem or not.

Canada's health care system is far from perfect but it's way better than what ya'll got down there. At least we won't die 'cause our HMO doesn't want to foot the bill.

It's not perfect it's just a far better solution than what you guys have.

And Sine was right about the point I was tryin' to make except rather than public banking or insurance, I just want heavily regulated. Right now, they're essentially doin' what they want. It can't be that way 'cause it's a necessity. Same with health care. They simply cannot act like a normal, soulless, profit-seeking entity, they have to be reigned in to ensure their profit-seeking actions are not to the detriment of society.

I caught a showing of this movie last night and it was pretty good. Since I live in Canada I probably didn't get the full effect the movie was going for, but it was a good Moore "Entertainumentary". It was silly and not terribly filled with facts, but that does make for a good movie.

Face it. The US is just a third-world version of a first-world country. Again, I watch a documentary and feel frustrated at the end of it. Makes me want to get out of this place, if there's many places that treat you better.

On a lighter note, I did like the total irony of the Moorewatch situation. (Linky for the story straight from the horse's mouth.)

EDIT: Yes, I know Moore is still a bastard for how he edits his films, but if even half of what was in the film was true (and I'm sure it's much more than half), then that's just tragic and sickening how depraved our country treats medical needs.

RE-EDIT: Though it requires BugMeNot, this is a very good article/review about SiCKO from the author of the book Sick (which talks about the same topic). He points out the inaccuracies of the movie, but ultimately praises the bigger picture of the movie.

One neat fact to note about Sicko: FoxNews gave it a rousing positive review. That's right, straight from the Republican's mouth.

At least this documentary of his won't be purely partisan. Sure he's biased, everyone is, but we really should be looking at the message and not just a fact here or there.