The Shrine

Website's unreachable... is this another one of their sick jokes or did they forget to pay their server bill?

"Welcome to #db "Don't ask about the site" edition"

From their IRC channel.

Doesn't matter anyway, because the next episode of Naruto is next year, anyway. Fuckers in Japan give us this double-episode with a DBZ-like tension building, and wait until the next episode for any good battle scenes.

SineSwiper wrote:Doesn't matter anyway, because the next episode of Naruto is next year, anyway. Fuckers in Japan give us this double-episode with a DBZ-like tension building, and wait until the next episode for any good battle scenes.

There's still Bleach, and I'm quite behind in Shippuuden

SineSwiper wrote:Doesn't matter anyway, because the next episode of Naruto is next year, anyway. Fuckers in Japan give us this double-episode with a DBZ-like tension building, and wait until the next episode for any good battle scenes.

Tension in Shippuuden? Where? There has to be notice forward plot movement for that to happen.....

Tessian wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:Doesn't matter anyway, because the next episode of Naruto is next year, anyway. Fuckers in Japan give us this double-episode with a DBZ-like tension building, and wait until the next episode for any good battle scenes.

There's still Bleach, and I'm quite behind in Shippuuden

After over 40 episodes of pure torture, the Bounto arc has FINALLY ended for me. I'm onto the new Aizen arc, about 6 or so eps in. They're still building it up so still waiting to see how it transpires. Pretty decent so far.

Zeus wrote:

Tessian wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:Doesn't matter anyway, because the next episode of Naruto is next year, anyway. Fuckers in Japan give us this double-episode with a DBZ-like tension building, and wait until the next episode for any good battle scenes.

There's still Bleach, and I'm quite behind in Shippuuden

After over 40 episodes of pure torture, the Bounto arc has FINALLY ended for me. I'm onto the new Aizen arc, about 6 or so eps in. They're still building it up so still waiting to see how it transpires. Pretty decent so far.

Way to not skip it newb.

Enjoy your 3-4 year wait on Naruto's anime to catch up.

*Reads Itachi vs Sasuke in the manga*

Naruto's been regulated to build-up now. Fuckers have killed the momentum of the series.

I'm still lookin' for an anime to take over on a weekly basis. Really, Bleach ain't that hot. It's good enough to keep going but not great. I might just stick to mini-series' as I haven't really heard of a good one to watch weekly. I'll likely build-up Bleach once I catch up as well. I'm on 123 now, been watching them a lot right now since I"ve been off of work for 2 weeks but that ends tomorrow.

Site is back up, however not with good news. I am not 100% sure this isnt a joke on their part, but it probally isn't in this case. Copied from their website.

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DB Halting Fansubbing Production Indefinitely, Effective Immediately
2007/12/27

Dear leechers,

We have warned everyone repeatedly on the issue of streaming our subs.

We sincerely appreciate everyone's efforts to spread the Naruto/Bleach love, but were growing increasingly frustrated, not to mention worried, over our repeatedly ignored requests not to upload our material to Veoh, Youtube and other streaming sites.

Perhaps you guys aren't aware, but the flagrant disregard for our requests puts us in an increasingly vulnerable position as a fansubbing group. We don't want to be shut down (which is something we are in constant threat of) and if our rules are not honored, we may well be.

Therefore we once again make this request:

Please do NOT upload any of our released episodes to streaming sites.
Since it's hard to get people to comply just by writing in these news, we need to get your attention. So effective immediately, we are forced to stop releasing our subtitled episodes for ALL our current projects until the request is met, full stop. This includes Naruto, Bleach, Pitagora Switch and Pokemon.

We regret that we have to take such a drastic stance, but our requests have gone ignored for years. There's not much more we can do to protect ourselves and to continue bringing these episodes to fans, but we believe that taking these precautions now will keep us operational for the long run. And we hope to keep bringing these episodes to English-speaking fans for a long time. Please help us by abiding by our rules.

Here’s the issue: Dattebayo translates and subtitles anime, and released the episodes for public download on our website. Lots of well-meaning fans then take these Dattebayo episodes, re-encode / cut them into parts and upload them onto streaming sites like Youtube or Veoh. THIS IS BAD. The reason is not because Dattebayo is stupid or annoying or mean.

It's disrespectful to the subbers’ wishes, but more importantly,
Fansubbing is not legal, and with the popularity of Naruto/Bleach growing, legitimate companies have licensed them for DVD releases outside of Japan.
That makes fansubbers a target - although Dattebayo makes no money, legally the companies have all the right to shut us down. Because Dattebayo is a prominent fansubbing group, it's at constant risk and legal threat. When you put videos on Veoh/Youtube, that exposes the group and makes it a big target.

To this end, Dattebayo has politely and repeatedly asked uploaders on many streaming sites to STOP UPLOADING our files. Many people assume that the uploaders have Dattebayo's permission, but that's not true. The uploaders have basically ignored all polite requests to stop. With recent changes to Youtube "copyright enforcement" policy, it's nearly impossible to get Dattebayo material removed once it's been uploaded, therefore leaving our work in horrible quality for everyone to view.

Which is why Dattebayo has decided that we will put a hold on all our subtitled episode releases until the uploaders comply. We've been way too nice so far by letting this issue slide, but this is the end. Here's our (repeated) request to everyone who butchers our work by uploading it to streaming sites. STOP. If you're an uploader, please DO NOT UPLOAD DATTEBAYO SUBS to any more streaming sites. If you're guilty of doing this in the past, and your streaming site account is still valid, GO AND DELETE ALL THE DATTEBAYO VIDEOS WHICH BELONG TO YOUR ACCOUNT. We NEVER gave ANYONE permission to upload our work to ANY STREAMING SITE. If you're not an uploader and want to help, flag our work you find on streaming sites as copyright infringement, send private message to uploader asking to remove content, etc. This is probably futile due to immense amount of idiots who are unable to read yet are able to figure out how to click "upload" button, but it doesn't hurt to try.

It might be annoying to have to figure out how to watch anime without Youtube or Veoh, but trust me, it's really not that hard. And some fans complain, "I don't know how to do it! It’s too hard! I need Veoh!" Well, if we fansubbers can figure out how to download Naruto, translate it, time it, edit it, encode it, release it - surely you can learn how to watch it. Or you can always (and should) buy the DVDs when they're released officially.

Dattebayo is providing a SERVICE - a free, fast, reliable service. Fansubbers would like to keep providing the service, so we hope everyone can understand why this decision has been made. Dattebayo's wish is NOT to shut down anime-sharing - it’s to keep it alive for the long run. Please help by considering the bigger picture.

Without streaming sites, anime-watching may become less convenient, that is unfortunately true. But it's better than shutting down fansubbing entirely - because then you'll have no anime at all.

Dattebayo Fansubs, LLC. Taking internet seriously for the last 3.22 years

It's probably only a half threat. They seem to always do something like that when Naruto skips a week. I'm sure they want to stop people uploading to streaming sites but I seriously doubt they aren't going to release anything until people comply.

While I definitely understand their anger-- there will be blood in the streets if Bleach is stopped.

I can defidently understand where they are comming from. The more attention they get the more likely Viz is going to send them a C&D order to stop Naruto or Bleach, and then they are done. They dont want that.

This is about a futile as stopping the Daily Show from showing up on YouTube. Naruto/Bleach is far too popular, and if DB stops subbing, then somebody else will pick up their work. After we all switch and DB decides to go back, it's too late. They would be standing around with their dicks in their hand saying "Hey, wait, we're important, right?", and the rest of the community will mostly ignore them.

There are much better fansub groups out there anyway. We just like them because they are pretty fast about their work.

Besides, Viz wouldn't dare shut down DB or any other Naruto fansub. If there were no fansubs for Naruto, there are no DVD sales for Viz...period! (Not to mention English game sales.) DB and folk seem to have this naive notion that Viz just hasn't discovered them yet. Wrong; they've been watching since before they launched Naruto dubs.

How do you think Viz found out about Naruto in the first place?

The problem is this does put them in a pickle because what they do is NOT legal... but Sine makes a good point that it's not like doing so will stop them from being noticed-- the people who matter already are well aware of the fansub groups doing their stuff. If they wanted them shut down they would have quite some time ago.

M'k'n'zy wrote:I can defidently understand where they are comming from. The more attention they get the more likely Viz is going to send them a C&D order to stop Naruto or Bleach, and then they are done. They dont want that.

I disagree with that to a point. I mean, there would be NO market for Naruto or Bleach without the fansubbers. I think that's why they've been left alone for the most part...well, that and the fact that they're not profiting from it. In a way, these fansubbers are making the market much larger than it would be. How many people here would even continue on with Naruto if you were JUST hitting the filler (as the US airing is now) knowing that there's 80+ more eps to go AND Shippudden is already going on? Even if you ain't watching it on TV, you're still interested in the marketing items like DVD, headbands, posters, etc. If those people lose interest, there's a huge chunk gone. Whether that's Viz or Shonen isn't the point, the point is there's a big benefit to having the fansubbers there.

But at the same time, if it gets to the point where it takes people away too much from the TV show you could have Viz or whoever stand up and say "it just ain't worth it". I'm not sure what exactly that number will be (DB bragged about how one of their filler eps had over 400,000 unique downloads - on their tracker alone - and I'm sure the weekly number is at least half that) but with YouTube you know that number goes up exponentially. I guess the number of people watching it finally got to the point where DB stood up and said "yo, dipshits, you keep this up and there won't be subbing no more".

There's a balance to this and I guess it's getting to the point where the Dark Side of the Internet is winning

Zeus wrote:

M'k'n'zy wrote:I can defidently understand where they are comming from. The more attention they get the more likely Viz is going to send them a C&D order to stop Naruto or Bleach, and then they are done. They dont want that.

I disagree with that to a point. I mean, there would be NO market for Naruto or Bleach without the fansubbers. I think that's why they've been left alone for the most part...well, that and the fact that they're not profiting from it. In a way, these fansubbers are making the market much larger than it would be. How many people here would even continue on with Naruto if you were JUST hitting the filler (as the US airing is now) knowing that there's 80+ more eps to go AND Shippudden is already going on? Even if you ain't watching it on TV, you're still interested in the marketing items like DVD, headbands, posters, etc. If those people lose interest, there's a huge chunk gone. Whether that's Viz or Shonen isn't the point, the point is there's a big benefit to having the fansubbers there.

But at the same time, if it gets to the point where it takes people away too much from the TV show you could have Viz or whoever stand up and say "it just ain't worth it". I'm not sure what exactly that number will be (DB bragged about how one of their filler eps had over 400,000 unique downloads - on their tracker alone - and I'm sure the weekly number is at least half that) but with YouTube you know that number goes up exponentially. I guess the number of people watching it finally got to the point where DB stood up and said "yo, dipshits, you keep this up and there won't be subbing no more".

There's a balance to this and I guess it's getting to the point where the Dark Side of the Internet is winning

I know exactly what you are saying but you also made my point. That is the reason most groups stop subbing a series once it gets licenced. The companys tollerate fansubs because it helps them decide what shows to licence, however if they are losing buisness and sales because of fansubs, then it gets to be a problem. Example, Viz sent out a C&D to everyone fansubing Death Note after it got licenced, that is why the only copies of the last couple of episodes are pretty crappy sub work.

Things like Naruto never needed fansub for its popularity. Even if there was no fansubs it'd still be pretty popular when it gets here because it fits the profile for the generic popular anime.

The argument might be valid for some fairly obscure thing that no one was going to bother licensing otherwise. However America is a pretty big Anime market now. The guys in Japan have a pretty good idea of what's going to sell here and what's not now and don't need any help from the fansubs.

Note that just because something isn't licensed doesn't mean it's legal to fansub it, but if it's not licensed generally no one cares it gets pirated anyway.

M'k'n'zy wrote:I know exactly what you are saying but you also made my point. That is the reason most groups stop subbing a series once it gets licenced. The companys tollerate fansubs because it helps them decide what shows to licence, however if they are losing buisness and sales because of fansubs, then it gets to be a problem. Example, Viz sent out a C&D to everyone fansubing Death Note after it got licenced, that is why the only copies of the last couple of episodes are pretty crappy sub work.

Well, you're under the assumption that Viz does a good job on Naruto dub/subs. They don't, and people don't want to watch it. Therefore, the fansubs are still there.

Even if all of the market went to fansubs, and Viz got zero money from the show, there is still a lot of money to be made from the games.

Speaking of which, isn't Death Note a limited series? If it's still going on and nobody's subbing it, I don't give a shit about it any more. (Why would I start on a series that doesn't have an ending?)

SineSwiper wrote:
Speaking of which, isn't Death Note a limited series? If it's still going on and nobody's subbing it, I don't give a shit about it any more. (Why would I start on a series that doesn't have an ending?)

Eric or someone can probably confirm this-- but Death Note ended a long time ago in Japan I believe. The Wiki says 37 episodes.

The site I go to has episode 29 of DN listed as of May, so it seems like it has ended around half an year ago.

Yeah it ended a long time ago, but what I am saying is that with about 4 episodes to go in the series, Viz sent out a C&D order to all the groups subbing it. And you also forget, yes WE think the Naruto dub/sub done by Viz sucks, but there are a lot of people who just watch it on cartoon network and dont realize how inacurate it is. Hell there are probally still people out there who dont know its from Japan.

The guys who would get fansubs are usually the guys who would be too cheap to buy the real thing so for the most part the distributors don't care what these guys think of them, and I'd say it's an accurate assessment.

At any rate the fansub groups own nothing. If they stop doing it, there will be 10 other guys eager to stake their claim as the best Naruto or Bleach fansubbing group. A fansub group has no way to enforce its property because no one owns this stuff (it's owned by whoever licensed it), so people are free to steal whatever work you did (the fansub). Piracy applies to everyone equally, even to other pirates.

I have friends who work on fansub groups and I believe most dubs are actually the correct way to translate everything but a lot of things translated correctly would be rather bland. However if you translates things not in such a bland way then sometimes you lose the original meaning. Fortunately Anime script are usually low quality enough that you rarely lose much quality after applying a liberal amount of Americanization. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if someone of the guys doing the fansubbing can write a better script than whatever the original Anime was.

SineSwiper wrote:

M'k'n'zy wrote:I know exactly what you are saying but you also made my point. That is the reason most groups stop subbing a series once it gets licenced. The companys tollerate fansubs because it helps them decide what shows to licence, however if they are losing buisness and sales because of fansubs, then it gets to be a problem. Example, Viz sent out a C&D to everyone fansubing Death Note after it got licenced, that is why the only copies of the last couple of episodes are pretty crappy sub work.

Well, you're under the assumption that Viz does a good job on Naruto dub/subs. They don't, and people don't want to watch it. Therefore, the fansubs are still there.

Even if all of the market went to fansubs, and Viz got zero money from the show, there is still a lot of money to be made from the games.

Speaking of which, isn't Death Note a limited series? If it's still going on and nobody's subbing it, I don't give a shit about it any more. (Why would I start on a series that doesn't have an ending?)

Death Note is only 37 eps, an awesome 37 eps.

That was a big pain that Mac was talking about. I remember scrambling trying to get the last few subs out 'cause only C&D and Ruberia were subbing at that point. They had shut Animanda and Kuro Hana down with only a few eps to go.

I really think that the Naruto fansubs still exist 'cause Viz knows the value of them. It's essentially creating a market they probably would lose so even if they get 10% of that market they're ahead.

I don't know why you think Naruto needs any help at all for its popularity. Even as someone who hates Naruto, it should be pretty obvious that Naruto was going to take off no matter what. Same with Bleach. The American companies probably don't care about the fansubs because they figure the guys who would get fansubs are not the guys who would buy their stuff period so no need to be the bad guy to a population that was never going to buy your stuff anyway. It's not exactly free publicity but it doesn't bother them that much, either. Your average 'hardcore' Anime fan are usually the guys who are least likely to actually buy anything, and since you don't have an effective way to stop fansubs, there's no reason to alienate these guys.

On another note, if there is such a thing as fansub helping sales with free publicity, Death Note would be the anime to observe this. This is a fairly decent Anime that is simply the wrong kind of Anime to be shown in US (it's rejected in other countries too) because of its inherently negative message.

Don Wang wrote:I don't know why you think Naruto needs any help at all for its popularity. Even as someone who hates Naruto, it should be pretty obvious that Naruto was going to take off no matter what. Same with Bleach. The American companies probably don't care about the fansubs because they figure the guys who would get fansubs are not the guys who would buy their stuff period so no need to be the bad guy to a population that was never going to buy your stuff anyway. It's not exactly free publicity but it doesn't bother them that much, either. Your average 'hardcore' Anime fan are usually the guys who are least likely to actually buy anything, and since you don't have an effective way to stop fansubs, there's no reason to alienate these guys.

The popularity of Naruto owes everything to fansubs. Without fansubs, Cartoon Network wouldn't give two shits about it, and they wouldn't care about putting it on the air. It's the popularity created BEFORE it's officially translated that starts the chain going.

Hell, if you go one step further, fansubbing in general has been the single biggest reason why anime is so popular in the US. Without readily available access to translated anime, it would have never have been popular, and nobody would have sold DVD sales on some random anime that nobody's heard of. You can only expose so much anime on TV, and support from Anime or Cartoon channels were created by the popularity that fansubs started.

I'm not sure how you guys can believe what's only about the 2nd most popular manga in Shonen Jump (behind One Piece, seems to switch places with Bleach on and off) in about the last 5 years, with a very standard style that's set up for mass appeal, actually needed the equivalent of piracy in case people might have never heard about the 2nd most popular manga/Anime that is currently available.

I mean, even Death Note is a lightweight in Shonen Jump and that probably means it only sold half a million copies per volume instead of a million. Even something that's threatened to get booted off Shonen Jump like Prince of Tennis sold a ton of on the Anime. Inuyasha, a rather boring flagship manga of a lesser weekly serial, sure does okay in America. Yet it'd never occur to anyone that the flagship manga of Shonen Jump is actually going to sell well? Shonen Jump's requirement to be on it is pretty much sales. If people aren't buying this stuff it won't get on Shonen Jump.

Just about the only thing I've seen from Shonen Jump that's remotely successful on Shonen Jump that failed to make a successful jump into Anime is Death Note and Black Cat. In DN's case it's almost related to the fact that the content is not something that's ideal for consumption outside of anywhere but Japan. And Black Cat was probably allowed to be on Shonen Jump a lot longer than it should have because it started out so well, people are dazzled by the potential of having another Cowboy Bebop. By the time it's over and made the jump to Anime, the glamour has worn off and people are aware this is not going to be another Cowboy Bebop.

It seems to me just because you've never heard of Naruto before you got it on your fansubs you assumed no one else has ever heard of Naruto either. That's sort of like me saying I have never heard of Rozen Maiden so it must not be very popular even though it's one of the hottest thing out there right now.

Did some research, here's TV Asahi's top 100 anime of all time polled who knows when: http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/anime100/. Some choice Anime that's well-known here:

2. Dragonball
5. Gundam
19. Sailor Moon
24. Evangelion
32. One Piece
34. Naruto

If you look at that list for anything recent, Naruto is pretty much around #2 or #3 (I'm not sure which Gundam they refer to, probably all of them). Since OP is somewhere around the #3 highest selling manga ever, losing to that on Anime isn't exactly a bad thing. Obviously Japan and America has very different tastes. #1 was Lupin the 3rd and #3 was Doraemon, and neither are likely to generate mega sales here. But it should be pretty obvious that Naruto isn't exactly something that only appeals to the Japanese.

They started posting episodes again? Bleach 155 was released a few days ago, although there's no mention on their front page about releasing it or new episodes at all.

Yeah, it looks like they fell short of their bluff. I'm sure the three accounts they posted (on the bottom of the PR) got suspended, but many others will just crop up.

Not to say that posting shitty Naruto episodes on YouTube is a good thing, but Dattebayo's tantrum is childish.

SineSwiper wrote:Yeah, it looks like they fell short of their bluff. I'm sure the three accounts they posted (on the bottom of the PR) got suspended, but many others will just crop up.

Not to say that posting shitty Naruto episodes on YouTube is a good thing, but Dattebayo's tantrum is childish.

Maybe, but they're right. It can't spread too much otherwise the give and take balance the fansubbing community has with the right holders will be gone and we start getting jack....or at least it'll be harder to get

Like I said earlier in this thread, it's much ado about nothing.

SineSwiper wrote:Like I said earlier in this thread, it's much ado about nothing.

Right now? Yes, I agree