how major manga handles main character losing
PostPosted:Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:32 pm
During last week, it was pointed out that of the 3 major manga currently on Shonen Jump, namely One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach, last week at least looked like all the main characters got defeated by somebody. Obviously a story where the main guy never loses is boring, but then if the main guy loses and dies that really doesn't work either, so how do different mainstream stuff handle losing? Well let's go with the easy one first: Bleach. Ichigo is about as resilient as a cockroach. He can have various holes poked straight through his body and being left for dead and 2 weeks later (in real life time) he'd return just fine because it was only a flesh wound. In this respect Ichigo loses surprisingly often for a main character because losing for Ichigo is of no consequence since it's literally impossible for him to die. So when you cannot die, it's no problem to lose. Kind of cheesy, but it works.
Next we move to Naruto. Effectively, Naruto never actually loses in any potentially dangerous situation. If someone actually tried to kill Naruto, the following can happen:
1. The Naruto that was killed was just a clone.
2. Somebody important shows up and gets hit out of harm's way.
3. Naruto uses Super Saiyan Tails power.
In this sense the bad guys tend to achieve a symbolic victory versus Naruto. You often see some new guy do some stuff and talk smack about how Naruto is weak, but they won't actually try to kill him, because if they did Naruto will just call on one of his godlike powers to smite them instead. It's relatively easy to beat Naruto but killing him is another issue altogether. He has a good share of symbolic losses of the kind 'oh no I better train harder' but he never has any losses that'd make you question the integrity of the story, i.e. how the heck did he survive this, because again we know Naruto isn't going to die. Though here it isn't because of his resilency, it's more like everyone knows deep down Naruto is some kind of super powerful godlike force that can wipe out the entire Akatsuki in 3 seconds if he really wanted to.
Now we move to One Piece, which probably has the most well structured world out of the 3 big mangas that focus predominantly on fighting. Unfortunately this also makes it the worst in handling losses. Luffy doesn't lose very often, but OP has enough rigidity where losing for Luffy is not only plausible, but often very necessary. Unfortunately there is no logical reason why Luffy should live when he is defeated since he is wanted dead or alive by essentially the world. For example you take the CP9 arc, it's basically like:
Rob Lucci: Hello everyone. I kill everyone that is an enemy of the World Government without mercy even if they're a little kid! I just smacked Luffy and knocked him down. I know he is still alive, but I'll just turn my back for no reason.
Luffy: Friendship will prevail!
Lucci: How did you get up? I'll beat you up again and knock you down again! And remember there is no mercy for those who dare oppose the World Government!
Luffy: Friendship will prevail!
And repeat this about 5 times where a guy who is supposed to exterminate any threat to the World Government mysteriously just knocks Luffy down 5 times, and then leaves so Luffy has enough time to recover to try again.
Or take the present arc, where Luffy got hit with the a net made of the stuff that totally disabled Devil Fruit users, and then have the same net mysteriously destroyed by friendly fire every time he was caught (I believe that material is supposed to be almost indestructible).
In fact, I think OP has turned into some kind of joke now with Luffy randomly challenging people who have 5 times his power level plus significant Devil Fruit advantage, gets totally owned, and then for no reason whatsoever did not die. In the recent arcs it's widely suspected that'd he suddenly learn how to use the Conqueror's Aura thingy to overcome the odds, but he never did. Would it be pretty cheesy? Sure, but it's better than losing and mysteriously not die. I mean it's not even like if someone toss him off a cliff and he miraculously survive. The guys who are supposed to be trying to kill him don't even make the slightest effort of trying to kill him when they do win.
Next we move to Naruto. Effectively, Naruto never actually loses in any potentially dangerous situation. If someone actually tried to kill Naruto, the following can happen:
1. The Naruto that was killed was just a clone.
2. Somebody important shows up and gets hit out of harm's way.
3. Naruto uses Super Saiyan Tails power.
In this sense the bad guys tend to achieve a symbolic victory versus Naruto. You often see some new guy do some stuff and talk smack about how Naruto is weak, but they won't actually try to kill him, because if they did Naruto will just call on one of his godlike powers to smite them instead. It's relatively easy to beat Naruto but killing him is another issue altogether. He has a good share of symbolic losses of the kind 'oh no I better train harder' but he never has any losses that'd make you question the integrity of the story, i.e. how the heck did he survive this, because again we know Naruto isn't going to die. Though here it isn't because of his resilency, it's more like everyone knows deep down Naruto is some kind of super powerful godlike force that can wipe out the entire Akatsuki in 3 seconds if he really wanted to.
Now we move to One Piece, which probably has the most well structured world out of the 3 big mangas that focus predominantly on fighting. Unfortunately this also makes it the worst in handling losses. Luffy doesn't lose very often, but OP has enough rigidity where losing for Luffy is not only plausible, but often very necessary. Unfortunately there is no logical reason why Luffy should live when he is defeated since he is wanted dead or alive by essentially the world. For example you take the CP9 arc, it's basically like:
Rob Lucci: Hello everyone. I kill everyone that is an enemy of the World Government without mercy even if they're a little kid! I just smacked Luffy and knocked him down. I know he is still alive, but I'll just turn my back for no reason.
Luffy: Friendship will prevail!
Lucci: How did you get up? I'll beat you up again and knock you down again! And remember there is no mercy for those who dare oppose the World Government!
Luffy: Friendship will prevail!
And repeat this about 5 times where a guy who is supposed to exterminate any threat to the World Government mysteriously just knocks Luffy down 5 times, and then leaves so Luffy has enough time to recover to try again.
Or take the present arc, where Luffy got hit with the a net made of the stuff that totally disabled Devil Fruit users, and then have the same net mysteriously destroyed by friendly fire every time he was caught (I believe that material is supposed to be almost indestructible).
In fact, I think OP has turned into some kind of joke now with Luffy randomly challenging people who have 5 times his power level plus significant Devil Fruit advantage, gets totally owned, and then for no reason whatsoever did not die. In the recent arcs it's widely suspected that'd he suddenly learn how to use the Conqueror's Aura thingy to overcome the odds, but he never did. Would it be pretty cheesy? Sure, but it's better than losing and mysteriously not die. I mean it's not even like if someone toss him off a cliff and he miraculously survive. The guys who are supposed to be trying to kill him don't even make the slightest effort of trying to kill him when they do win.
