The Shrine

Agrees that there were too many villains in the third (geez, you think that's a diss about being forced to include Venom at the last second?) and wants to make sure he "gets to the point" quicker, make the movie more in the vein of the indie flicks that he grew up making

http://movies.ign.com/articles/103/1035949p1.html

To me, this is only a good thing

I think he should have listened to his fans earlier and made Venom the primary focus of SM3, but not if it was in the middle of filming an already finished script.

Now the potential is wasted, and we will never get into Venom ever again. Carnage, maybe, but I doubt it.

Sine, you have to remember that Venom was most popular during the '90s. Raimi probably wants to make movies based on the Spiderman comics he grew up with.

Kupek wrote:Sine, you have to remember that Venom was most popular during the '90s. Raimi probably wants to make movies based on the Spiderman comics he grew up with.

That was exactly the issue. It was Sony who forced Raimi, at the last minute just before filming, to change the script to include Venom. I distinctly remember reading about that somewhere. There's a reason that the scenes without Venom felt like the first two films whereas the ones with him (and the black suit) felt different. It felt like Raimi was trying to put what he read about Venom, an 80' and 90's character, into the 60's-style storyline/world he had built with the first two films. He understood the 60's Spiderman but not the 80's/90's

Yeah, that would explain why all of the scenes of "Bad Peter Parker" felt like something out of West Side Story.

Venom is a big enough deal he should have been the main villain in one movie, and for the love of God, like I said before, cast The Rock in a blond wig or some shit. Not Topher fucking Grace.

Replay wrote:Venom is a big enough deal he should have been the main villain in one movie, and for the love of God, like I said before, cast The Rock in a blond wig or some shit. Not Topher fucking Grace.

Hey, Tobey didn't really fit into most people's vision of Spiderman and he worked out fine

Yeah. I guess. But serious, people are going to want to see Venom back, and he's supposed to be a physical monster. Did you all read the origin issue? I bought that isht at the stands.

Replay wrote:Yeah. I guess. But serious, people are going to want to see Venom back, and he's supposed to be a physical monster. Did you all read the origin issue? I bought that isht at the stands.

Venom was a big character back in the 90s for the 2 years I collected comics so I know him alright.

Again, Raimi is trying to fit a 90s character into a 60's-style flick. Sony wanted him in there and that's the sole reason he was.

Oh, well. Maybe 50 Cent can get some workout machines and steroids for Topher in the next few movies he's in.

Zeus wrote:

Kupek wrote:Sine, you have to remember that Venom was most popular during the '90s. Raimi probably wants to make movies based on the Spiderman comics he grew up with.

That was exactly the issue. It was Sony who forced Raimi, at the last minute just before filming, to change the script to include Venom. I distinctly remember reading about that somewhere.

You read wrong. I thought that before I posted that, but he was convinced by a friend, not forced. Still, same result.

But, to say that he "forgot" about Venom, or didn't want to isn't a valid excuse. Nobody gives a shit about Green Goblin or Sandman. The first villian to come to mind when everybody else thinks of Spiderman is Venom.

It's okay to not put him in the first movie, but after the third, it REALLY should have been in there, especially when we were teased about it on the 2nd movie.

Raimi was doing classic (ie. 60s) Spiderman, not 90s. Venom coulda waited 'til he incorporated him properly and not at the last minute

Show me where it says "convinced". Everything I read was "they fucking forced me" using different words.

Here. If he said he was forced later on, he certainly changed his tone from that original quote.

Are we talking about Raimi's quote at a news conference a week before the flim was released in theatres that Avi Arad, Marvel's head of the entertainment, "persuaded" him to include Venom? What, did you expect him to say "fucking can't believe that dickwad forced me to include Venom, I hate him and he doesn't fit within the Spiderman universe I created at all!"

Seriously, man.....

So, what you are saying is that Sam Raimi is a corporate shill that won't speak his mind?

SineSwiper wrote:So, what you are saying is that Sam Raimi is a corporate shill that won't speak his mind?

You're talking about a huge franchise that's very important to Sony pictures and Marvel. All I'm saying is he doesn't have autonomy here and if someone, like say, Arad, wants something in there for whatever reason (such as a spinoff), they get it

He wasn't "forced," but as someone directing an important, lucrative franchise, you don't have complete autonomy. Every decision you make is a compromise with the studios and the rights-holders. I think Raimi probably had good intentions, it just didn't work out well.

I've mentioned the Creative Screenwriting podcast before. He's interviewed David Hayter for Watchmen twice, and he talks about that a lot. If I remember correctly, they had an unusual situation where they could walk away from the studio with the script. In most situations, directors and screenwriters don't have that kind of leverage. They can be replaced if they cause too much trouble.

Kupek wrote:He wasn't "forced," but as someone directing an important, lucrative franchise, you don't have complete autonomy. Every decision you make is a compromise with the studios and the rights-holders. I think Raimi probably had good intentions, it just didn't work out well.

I've mentioned the Creative Screenwriting podcast before. He's interviewed David Hayter for Watchmen twice, and he talks about that a lot. If I remember correctly, they had an unusual situation where they could walk away from the studio with the script. In most situations, directors and screenwriters don't have that kind of leverage. They can be replaced if they cause too much trouble.

Forced = he didn't want to include him but was told or HEAVILY suggested to that he needs to include him. By the way Venom was integrated into Raimi's world and how he used him, you can clearly tell he was added in later and not someone Raimi understood too well