The Shrine

You know that scene where Grayjoy, as a prisoner, meets these two chicks, who try to have sex with him, and he's apprehensive at first, but then he's starting to enjoy it... until they stop him right before the climax and then chop his dick off?

Yeah, that's how I feel about each season of Game of Thrones.

Season 3 Episode 9

Here is a good article about the RW:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/02/game- ... d-wedding/

Eric wrote:Season 3 Episode 9

Spoiler: show

Dear lord, her poor stomach

https://twitter.com/RedWeddingTears

Yet all of those twitter folks are still going to watch the next episode. "I FUCKING HATE YOU! CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE!"

I'm fine with surprises, with killing off major characters, with bouts of evil winning over and gaining the upper hand. However, this kind of entertainment is a form of escapism. People don't want to escape to a dystopia without some legitimate wins on the side of good.

You can't make a series out of 1984. It started with a description of a dystopia, some hope of trying to change the future, and then ended with the realization that those hopes are worthless. You can write a book like that, and make a movie or mini-series, but you can't expect people to WANT to continue with a longer running series if they know that there isn't any hope of a semi-good ending.

Let's look at the "score":

Season 1 - Old king dies, Lannisters take over, Ned Stark gets beheaded, Starks start a war, and some of the Stark kids get separated. (I call this a good beginning; evil triumphs, but there is hope of victory over it.) Daenerys gets her story started, runs into some bad shit, but ultimately gets a satisfying revenge. Varys tries to do good, but Littlefinger fucks him over. Nightwatch starts to see bad shit as "Winter is coming". In terms of the Lion War, though, the season was rather anti-climatic.

Season 2 - Lannisters are still there, being dicks as usual, though Tyrion is having some good luck with it. A bunch of new characters, most of whom are fairly evil or quickly killed off. Grayjoy starts his dark descent into despair. Winterfell is fucked over. More Stark kids scatter. Sansa is still treated like a bitch. Daenerys runs into some bad shit, but ultimately gets a satisfying revenge. Nightwatch really sees some strange shit, and Jon Snow gets into some serious trouble. Stannis finally attacks King's Landing in an epic battle and....

....the Lannisters are still there! WTF?!?

Season 3 - Grayjoy is fucked with mentally, in much of the same way as the audience. Tyrion is fucked over. Sansa is fucked over. Ros (the prostitute) is killed. Even Cersei and Jaime are fucked over and you actually feel sorry for them. Gendry (the blacksmith) is entering a world of pain. Stannis turns to the dark side even further. Varys tries to do good, but Littlefinger fucks him over. The Nightwatch is basically disbanded, while the Wildlings prepare for a futile war, which Jon Snow is forced into. Daenerys runs into some...errr...actually, she's pretty badass at this point. Bran is finally figuring shit out.

Oh, and the Starks are preparing for an awesome plan to raid House Lannister. Rob's wife gets preggers, his cousin gets married to a hottie, and... MOST OF THE FAMILY IS KILLED! Lion War OVA! The Lannisters are still there! WTF?!?

I'm giving it one more season. If I'm not seeing any good payback out of it, I'm not going to bother.

Read Flip's link Sine. If you keep hoping for good things to happen to good people in that world, you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

What do you say to readers who are upset about the scene?
It depends on what they say. What can you say to someone who says they’ll never read your book again? People read books for different reasons. I respect that. Some read for comfort. And some of my former readers have said their life is hard, their mother is sick, their dog died, and they read fiction to escape. They don’t want to get hit in the mouth with something horrible. And you read that certain kind of fiction where the guy will always get the girl and the good guys win and it reaffirms to you that life is fair. We all want that at times. There’s a certain vicarious release to that. So I’m not dismissive of people who want that. But that’s not the kind of fiction I write, in most cases. It’s certainly not what Ice and Fire is. It tries to be more realistic about what life is. It has joy, but it also had pain and fear. I think the best fiction captures life in all its light and darkness.

Sad to see that there won't be any more naked Oona Chaplin, but quite eagerly waiting the next episode. This renewed my interest in the show. If I want to watch happy happy joy joy fantasy I'll just rewatch the last 30 minutes of ROTK on loop or some such. Caitlyn was one of my favorite characters in the show but that probably has more to do with the actress than anything else. The characters I want to see pay off are still around.

Jonah Mormont getting his heart broken on the spot by Daenerys while making eye contact with the camera was pretty god damned hard to watch too.

Cool fight scene. You never see anyone fight with a spear on film and this was pretty neat to watch. It's always *STAB* or *THROW* -> *IMPALEMENT* *CAMERA CUTS AWAY*

Shrinweck wrote:Sad to see that there won't be any more naked Oona Chaplin

Seconded. She's gorgeous.

I thought they pulled off RW very well. The only thing it was missing was the face shredding. The Talisa bit was nice and shocking.

Eric wrote:Read Flip's link Sine. If you keep hoping for good things to happen to good people in that world, you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

I'm fine with realism. I just think that there should be hope that everything is not going to be dark and depressing forever. I also don't like his reasons for the Red Wedding in the first place, which boils down to "it's unpredictable". I'm halfway expecting M Night to pop out of the corner and say "It's a twist!" It's fucking with the audience solely for shock factor.

He needs an end game and not something that going to take 20 seasons to complete, either. Too many of these fantasy writers think they can get away with burning through 10 1000-page books without an end in sight. Too many TV series writers think in similar manners: writing story by the seat of their pants without thinking about how it's going to end.

Frankly, I think LotR is a good example of how you should frame a story. Three books, with a beginning, middle, and ending. Yes, it might seem cliche, and I'm not saying that fantasy needs to be pigeonholed into pure good vs. pure evil. (I really like the greyness of GoT.) But, it's the complete package. Farscape, Harry Potter, Babylon 5. Stories with clear beginnings and endings.

Shrinweck wrote:Jonah Mormont getting his heart broken on the spot by Daenerys while making eye contact with the camera was pretty god damned hard to watch too.

Yeah, he frowned like the answer to her question was "No, he died in combat", but it was more like "No, the fucker is still alive".

Shrinweck wrote:Cool fight scene. You never see anyone fight with a spear on film and this was pretty neat to watch. It's always *STAB* or *THROW* -> *IMPALEMENT* *CAMERA CUTS AWAY*

Yeah, I was commenting to Shellie that I think that was the first time I've seen somebody do a fight scene with a shotel. Great execution of both offense and defense with the weapon.

SineSwiper wrote: Yeah, he frowned like the answer to her question was "No, he died in combat", but it was more like "No, the fucker is still alive".
.

Someone else's interpretation is that that's the face of a man just as he realizes he's friend zoned and the douche bag is getting the girl. I typically reserve friend zone talk for teenagers but I think that in this case it relates pretty well.

Good people take it up the ass on this show, and not only that when they're even a little bad, the bad part comes back to stab them in their girlfriend's pregnant belly 5 times(Anyone else tell I found that part particularlly brutal?!)

Even as a reader, yeah, Talisa getting it first and so very violently threw me for a loop! Up to that point, i was still in the boat that the show had deviated from the books and made her a Lannister spy, telling Rob all those things about pregnancy and baby names just to sink her teeth in farther to fool him. In previous episodes she was always writing letters in a foreign language, which i thought was spy reports to Tywin. I had to watch the episode again to give her due remorse.

I thought the episode was all done very well. Swiftly is how a massacre should happen. There were dramatics, but luckily nothing too over the top. The blood spraying all over the place from the throat slits was a little gratuitous, but i didnt mind. In the scenes from the next episode, they show the rest of Robb's tents burning so the small scale of the murder was fine with me.

Besides the whole plot device discussion around the Red Wedding, I thought there were some problems with execution. For one, why didn't Rob or somebody just throw a damn knife at the head Frey? He's right there gloating.

And speaking of knives, I have been slowly hating Caitlyn's character, despite the good acting. She is wrong about EVERYTHING. Wrong about Tyrion, wrong about her sister, wrong about Jamie, wrong about baby Jon Snow. And wrong about picking Frey's wife as a hostage.

Have you not been paying attention, dumbass?! The guy doesn't give a shit about women. And to top it all off with a totally disgraceful begging to "forget this ever happened" as if that was even possible, nor was she in any sort of position to do so. Because, you know, wrong fucking hostage, dumbass.

SineSwiper wrote:Besides the whole plot device discussion around the Red Wedding, I thought there were some problems with execution. For one, why didn't Rob or somebody just throw a damn knife at the head Frey? He's right there gloating.

Probably because by the time his mom realized what was about to happen, they were already getting stabbed/shot with arrows/and their throats cut? Watch it again, nobody had a chance to really counter-attack.

SineSwiper wrote:And speaking of knives, I have been slowly hating Caitlyn's character, despite the good acting. She is wrong about EVERYTHING. Wrong about Tyrion, wrong about her sister, wrong about Jamie, wrong about baby Jon Snow. And wrong about picking Frey's wife as a hostage.

Walder Frey was behind a table and she was injured, and the wife was easier to get to, if you watch the scene again the archers immediately turned their attention to her right as she grabbed the wife, the extra distance to get to him considering she was injured would have been too much.

SineSwiper wrote:Have you not been paying attention, dumbass?! The guy doesn't give a shit about women. And to top it all off with a totally disgraceful begging to "forget this ever happened" as if that was even possible, nor was she in any sort of position to do so. Because, you know, wrong fucking hostage, dumbass.

She was desperate sir. Contrary to popular belief when your life is on the line not everyone can think straight.

Oh yea, that feels good i bet, all tingly.

EDIT: Hidden in the spoiler now so Sine doesnt get all butthurt.

Eric wrote:She was desperate sir. Contrary to popular belief when your life is on the line not everyone can think straight.

I think Robb was more level-headed, despite the wounds. He tried to stop her, to get her to just accept death, but the Lannister guy basically forced the issue by killing him.

Also, WTF Flip? Why would somebody make a GIF of that? (I mean, I'm sure it was going to happen, but still...)

George R.R. Martin giving fake spoilers for what's to come: http://teamcoco.com/video/george-rr-mar ... s-spoilers

Sine, you've clearly ignored all my bitching about that lazy-ass writer. NOTHING in the world of Gay of Thrones happens without someone dying, that talentless hack knows nothing else.

My wife, who loves the books, even tells me that the show deviates too much from the books. Same basic plot points but LOTS of things are changed, none of which she likes. She's as tired of the show as I am but for different reasons. Since we're only one episode away we'll just finish this season but that's it for us and this bullshit show.

I've moved on to stuff where the writers actually know how to write better than a blood-thirsty 4th-grader, like Homeland and Defiance

Lol Homeland is over for good (and thank god, any continuation would have been shit) and Defiance? Really?

My problem with Game of Thrones is only this...so far as I know, it doesn't have any payoff/end. The series won't last forever...will Martin kick out 2 more books in time (and will they be good)? Meh...

Unlike zeus, I'm entertained...for now. That's enough for me.

Yeah I don't think it's the shit but GoT is worth the time it takes me to watch it.

Shrinweck wrote:Lol Homeland is over for good (and thank god, any continuation would have been shit) and Defiance? Really?

You know, Defiance is earning my time. I watch it and it seems like nothing is really going on or its gonna become generic drivel. But yet, each ep, they do something to keep me watching. I find a lot of the characters interesting (and Julie Benz is never a bad thing), even the unbelievable Nathan Drake clone (I don't think its a coincidence he's named after Nolan North). I shouldn't be surprised its better than I thought, its made by the Battlestar guys after all

As for Homeland, I'm only 2 EPs in but its already showing more character depth than GoT. Its earned more eps from me

Season one of Homeland is great, but two has some missteps but is overall still good. Season three would have suffered from undue escalation wherein the writer/writing staff think the only way to keep people watching is if the stakes never stop going up and the situations just get crazier. It would have just gotten stupid. Decent ending, but any more would have been garbage. Satisfying but not closure. Overall a B+ series I'd say.

I haven't heard anything good about Defiance until the recent episodes. If it still has a positive reputation by the end of season one I'll give it a watch (probably). If the game is ever a decent price I'll buy it too, but I'm not spending any more than $20 for it. I do like the idea of a MMORPG that charges for content rather than time passing.

Defiance is like a sci-fi Boardwalk Empire (Boardwalk may be my fav show right now). It doesn't move fast, it's kinda like a slow build. That's why you've heard more good about recent eps, it took 4 or 5 eps before things started to come to a head. It's all character, storyline, and world-building in the beginning. If you're gonna watch it, I'd say go in with the idea of watching the entire first season. Anything less than that and you're not even really gonna get into enough to properly know whether or not you're gonna care. 7 eps have aired so far and it's getting better but very much feels like it's incomplete and needs the season to end to get a really good concept of the show's direction.

We'll see where we end up with Homeland. I do have it in the back of my mind that it may start to fizzle out after a couple of seasons. They're doing a really good job in the first couple of eps with the POW and he's really keeping the show together and interesting, but that's gonna be hard to repeat. I'm willing to watch it until it starts to fizzle. I hope it won't but the show definitely feels like it'll have a shelf-life. Sons of Anarchy was kinda like that. I just blasted through all 5 seasons and it started to fizzle out around midway through Season 3. I'll keep watching it but I'll wait for the entire 6th season to come out and watch it all at once.

With Dexter finishing up, I'm trying to pick up other shows. I think Justified is one I'll try next. I liked Get Shorty and Be Cool, I wanna see something else by Leonard

Errr, Shrinweck, Homeland Season 3 is happening, I don't know why you're talking like the series is over lol.

Huh I heard it was cancelled guess they were full of shit. Not looking forward to the premiere

GoT pulls no punches with the source material, sometimes. I'm surprised they left in Robbwind...

Zeus wrote:I've moved on to stuff where the writers actually know how to write better than a blood-thirsty 4th-grader, like Homeland and Defiance

Homeland is jingoistic bullshit, and Defiance? ROFL, fuck SyFy and fuck their shitty name. They can have all the WWE wrestling and Boa Vs. Python they want.

SineSwiper wrote:

Zeus wrote:I've moved on to stuff where the writers actually know how to write better than a blood-thirsty 4th-grader, like Homeland and Defiance

Homeland is jingoistic bullshit, and Defiance? ROFL, fuck SyFy and fuck their shitty name. They can have all the WWE wrestling and Boa Vs. Python they want.

I'm two eps into Homeland. It's intrigued me enough to keep watching. It may piss me off yet, I will let you know what I think after I finish the entire first season

Defiance is simply getting better every single episode. I don't care about the game at all, I'm just watching the show. And it's good....real good. Have you watched it at all?

As a personwho has had to convince white people that he isn't Middle Eastern and is indeed Polynesian in an attempt to not get attacked/have a very dangerous conversation I am okay with how Homeland portrays things. It does an okay job of showing how and why the other side does what it does and also how fucked our side of things is. I wouldn't say it toes the line of being entirely too patriotic - it shows the intelligence community as being a bunch of assholes fighting another bunch of assholes.

Shrinweck wrote:As a personwho has had to convince white people that he isn't Middle Eastern and is indeed Polynesian in an attempt to not get attacked/have a very dangerous conversation I am okay with how Homeland portrays things. It does an okay job of showing how and why the other side does what it does and also how fucked our side of things is. I wouldn't say it toes the line of being entirely too patriotic - it shows the intelligence community as being a bunch of assholes fighting another bunch of assholes.

Speaking as someone who actually IS Middle Eastern with a Muslim first AND last name (but not Muslim by religion), I'm OK with it...so far. Again, only 2 eps in but it's pretty well done so far

I dunno, I'm more turned off by the the fact that it was done just to capitalize on 9/11 9/11 9/11.

A movie like The Siege, which ends up telling a similar story and is pretty entertaining, but then you're shocked that it was made in 1998. Doing something like that now is almost cliche.

It's a show based on current events in the intelligence community. What's it supposed to be about? Communism? King George overtaxing and under-representing? :P

Real answer: maybe if it lasts long enough it'll be about Chinese hacking.

I don't think the Chinese hacking us for information is as compelling or interesting as the crazies from the middle east trying to blow us up with themselves in the name of god because we bombed their homes and murdered their loves ones as collateral.

That's just because a hacker hasn't turned any of our cities into a hellscape by poisoning the water, destroying power plants, and delaying emergency response times. If they can't boogeyman hacking then I'd be surprised.

SineSwiper wrote:A movie like The Siege, which ends up telling a similar story and is pretty entertaining, but then you're shocked that it was made in 1998. Doing something like that now is almost cliche.

Jesus Christ. You DARE to tell me I have bad taste in movies and you liked The Siege? That was one of the worst movies ever made. It's down there in Star Wars Holiday Special territory. I got 40 minutes into it and I just couldn't handle the shittiness anymore

The longer I'm a part of this forum the longer I become completely certain we all have somewhat terrible taste in general.

Funny thing about The Siege is that it bombed @ the box office due to Arab protesting, but after 9/11 it became one of the best selling dvd and rental lol.

Shrinweck wrote:The longer I'm a part of this forum the longer I become completely certain we all have somewhat terrible taste in general.

Based on many of the movies people here have "liked" over the last few years, I'd have to agree :-)