The Shrine

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>sorry it took so long, I've been busy lately. The internet is full of info. All you have to do is search for it. But here are a couple of links to get you started.

FYI though, my martial arts knowledge comes from a combination of sources from the internet, books (lots of them), periodicals (such as Tai Chi magazine, which is by far the best written MA magazine I've come across), and of course, training. While you'll get a lot of knowledge simply by doing tons of readings on the internet, some of the more subtle insights (and most significant) will only come from actually seeing, feeling, and training. Anyway, here are a couple of links.

<a href="http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/index.htm">Tai Chi</a> - covers a lot of material
<a href="http://emptyflower.com/xingyiquan/">Xing Yi</a> - a good site on XingYi Quan

Let me know if you have any questions.

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Great! Thanks a lot. I found a bit of stuff on my own, like you said, it's pretty abundant. Looks like you've got some good links here, so thanks again.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>man i got this one move where i punch with BOTH arms and kick with one leg while hopping on the other. its unstopable, noone can block 3 flying objects. i own you.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>What if he just decides to step backwards? Can't advance very well on one leg. Whatcha gonna do? Hobble after his ass hoping he won't trip you? Sounds like Monty Python! :)</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>pfft...have you actually tried puching with both arms and kicking at the same time? If you can do it against someone without falling on your ass, I'd be impressed =)</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>Unless you weighed 100 pounds heavier than the guy you're punching, that's a recipe for getting yo ass on the grass. Try puncing someone with both your feet side by side. You'll rock backwards.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>If you have the proper body structure, the reaction force from your punch will be directed into the ground, and the ground's not going anywhere. If your structure doesn't yield, and if you know the ground won't yield, then your opponent has to yield, because that energy has to go <i>somewhere</i>. What this means is that the full force of your punch is going into your opponent. What I'm describing is what martial artists call "root". It's the base for nearly all Chinese martial arts. It's why you see big burly guys unable to push an old man off balance. Those guys are essentially pushing the ground.

A while ago, I started this drill where you and your partner essentially direct force straight at each other. When I started, I didn't really have any concept of root. So when he applied a little extra force, I would lose balance and lean back. Occasionally I would have to take a couple of steps back. Now, however, I'm finally beginning to feel my structure working for me. When my partner pushes harder, there is no apparent movement in my body. I don't lean back or lose balance. However, I feel my <i>legs</i> taking on the excess force. Since my legs are more than strong enough to maintain my structure, my partner feels as if he's applying force to a solid wall. All this is done in a stance where our feet are side by side and we are facing each other squarely.

So with root, it <i>is</i> possible to punch with both arms and kick at the same time while maintaining balance. The reaction force of your three limbs will supported by your remaining leg which is planted in the ground. However, it is not easy to make your body work this way. It requires a lot of training. And for some strange reason, I don't think Flip has mastered this. =)

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>his feet aren't side by side, but the principle is the same. To show that he's directing the incoming force to the ground, he's standing on a scale. He could have done this with his feet side by side, but he would need two scales to stand on. Anyway, it doesn't change the principle.

<img src="http://www.tstvingtsun.bc.ca/Images/Sig ... ion02b.jpg">

Incidently, this dude is one the top four students of Yip Man, who happened to be Bruce Lee's teacher. His name is Chu Shong Tin.

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>Though i wouldn't try that on you. You probably could kill me six ways with your pinky toe.

I bet I run faster than you. =8^)</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>...but don't worry about me. I'm still early in my training (in Wing Chun at least). Although I know of plenty ways to cause hurt to someone, I can't claim to be able to do so neatly in the heat of battle. My instructor, on the other hand probably can kill me with his pinky toe. "I can't tell you which of your internal organs will be ruptured, but I guarantee you, some of them will..." *shudder*

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Cool! I'll take a look at them.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>I won. And not a bruise on me....but I sure as heck was scared waiting for him to show up. When the fight started, he did his stance and I thought for sure I'd be dead meat. Then I rushed in and pinned him against the wall and just started beating him silly. He tried to swing me around when I first rushed in but by then, I had a knee in his crotch and things just went my way. =8^)

That was in first year college. I was stupid and had a really bad temper.

So, what's it take for a student of Martial Arts to keep his mind on what he learned in the heat of battle? I've seen the UFC fights, guys who were 4 degree black belters and they get pummeled by someone who knew Jiu Jitsu(not what you see on the movies, folks). I'm not knocking Martial Arts, you told me that the true masters would never let his opponents touch him.

But what about your average person who takes Martial Arts training twice a week? Does he have to spar more than twice a week to get himself mentally trained to fight like Bruce Lee? I'm asking coz my girlfriend is taking this "Hap Mudo" course. I want her to fight like she trained. Not forget everything like that guy I fought.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>Black belts really don't mean that much. I realized this when I went into a local Hapkido school, and the so called Black Belts were no better than some of the yellow belts at my Hapkido club in Davis. I've sparred with black belt TKD people and the ones I sparred couldn't punch if their lives depended on it. Belt color matters not. How hard you train, how well you train, and how correctly you train is what separates the fighters from the rest.

But to answer your question, how can you train to become an effective fighter? IMO, the answer is experience. Unless you put yourself through that type of experience constantly, you simply won't know how to handle yourself when you really need to. I mean, how do you get better at basketball? You play more basketball. How do you become a faster runner? You run more. How do you get better at fighting? You fight more. Does this mean you have to go out and pick fights constantly in order to be able to fight? Not necessarily. But it does mean that the closer your training resembles real fight situations, the better. The karate guy you dealt with probably knew a lot of forms and techniques, but he obviously had very little experience in <i>applying</i> them. We all know that all you have to do to be a good archer is to hit the bulls eye consistently, but how many of us can do it without proper training?

IMO, part of martial arts training is to train yourself to handle any fighting situation. That necessarily means sparring. And not just sparring where the other guy does the type of stuff you expect. You have to spar against people who will charge at you. People who try to take you down. People who like to punch a lot. People who kick a lot. People who mix it up, etc. Otherwise, someone comes along and does something you don't expect, you get toasted. That's why those kung fu and karate guys lost to the bjj guys. They never dreamed that someone would try to charge in and take them to the ground, let alone fight them on the ground. I've spared with Tae Kwon Do guys who not only didn't know how to punch, but also didn't know how to defend against them. That's because they spent all their time sparring other TKD guys who don't punch either, and the concept of "punching" hadn't really occurred to them. I had to ring their bells quite a few times before they learned to put their hands up when I close in (they usually leave their hands dangling by their legs).

Now about your girlfriend. I'd really have to see her class to see if it's any good. In my experience though, a whole freakin lot of public MA schools suck. But if she is to be able to defend herself, then she'll need to spar eventually. It's ok if you don't spar immediately when you start learning. In fact, it's better that you build up your foundation first. But eventually, some time down the line, you'll have to spar. If I were you, I'd go take a look at her classes. In my opinion, there are two main things to look for if you want to see if a school trains fighters. Actually, there are a lot more, but these two are pretty important. One is to see if the students are instilled with confidence. Look at the higher level students (red, brown, black belts). Is it glaringly obvious that they are better than the white and yellow belts? They should be. It should be like night and day. Secondly, look at their sparring sessions. See how realistic it is. Does it look like they could handle themselves in a real street fight?

Actually, Brazilian Jujitsu is an excellent art to study if you want to learn how do defend yourself. The reason is because you basically train the same way you fight. A lot of their training is basically sparring. Muay Thai is another good style to train in, although it can be pretty tough on your body, and you're sort of out of luck if your opponent is a lot bigger than you. Normally, I'd recommend Wing Chun, which is the style I currently study, because it is designed to allow a smaller person to fight bigger guys. But finding a good Wing Chun instructor is very hard. (Note than in the three styles I mentioned, sparring plays a huge role in the curriculum)

How long has your girlfriend been training? You know, there's a good way to see if she'll be able to handle herself out on the street. Just charge her (in a controlled environment of course) the way you charged the Karate guy. Since you have no formal MA training and she does, she should be able to kick your ass. If she can't, then either she needs more training, or she needs to find a better school. This is just my guestimate, but I think that after three or so years of training one should be able to defend oneself against the average joe (like you ^_^). If not, then there's something fishy going on.

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>I have a feeling the class she's taking is the the garden variety and not the real deal. I'll pass on this info to her. Thanks.

Oh....and may the force be with you!</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>Oh i have root, so much root you wouldnt believe!!!</div>

<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>... "The Move", as it is coined, cannot be stopped because not only am throwing 2 punches at the same time, one is aimed high at the face while the other gos for the gut. Add in the kick and you have a three planed attack that results in my roommates's getting their asses kicked. they cant stop "The Move", nobody can stop "The Move".mwahaaa


-Flip</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>how long has she been training? if she's a beginner, you can't really fault her. check out the class. if it's good, give her a couple of years.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Damn. Xing Yi is fucking bad ass! I wish there were someone I could learn it from</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>Only 4 months. I'll have to go to her class and beat up her instructor just to see how good they are. j/k =8^D</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>Martial Arts can are neat and all, but I'll just be a gun person, thanks.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>Spaz. I miss that shot gun of mine (the same one used in Terminator in the Police Station)! *sniff*</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>*yawn*</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>try to beat up a couple of senior students too. =) They will indicate whether or not the instuctor can teach =). Not that I endorse fighting...</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>Seriously, I was just adding that. Don't start the token, "ad nauseating" debate. It's stupid.

Because, you know, the guns always win. That's why the army is equipped with carbines, not axe kicks.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>What are you trying to say then, slugger? :)</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>That I'm un-armed. At least until I get that Desert Eagle. Not sure if I should get .44 or .50 caliber. Hmmmm.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>if you think all there is to martial arts is beating people up, then debating with you would be stupid.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>I don't. Don't bother going off on the tokenist "discipline, self-confidence, blah blah" rant either, I was in a very good school for well over a year and I became weary of it. Been dere, done dat.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>If you're serious about actually buying a gun, don't get a Desert Eagle. They're very unreliable, the ammo is incredibly expensive (and you'd probably be plinking, not shooting burglars), and generally unwieldly as a whole. Their sole credit is that they look badass, unfortunately.</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>...but if you see the other values of training other than self defense, then the point you brought up was pretty useless, wasn't it? Besides, I can make more than a few points on why training <i>would still</i> be a good idea in terms of self defense, even in a modern society. But whatever. You obviously think you have all the facts, so I'm not gonna bother debating with you. You live your life and I'll live mine. The fact that someone out there who "got bored" of martial arts and think that a gun is the end-all of self defense isn't gonna stop me from training.

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>I don't care. It's for close range defense. I've got others that are more reliable.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>Speaking of "konwing all the facts", you've got a little bit of arrogant vagary on the corner of your mouth, there. No, the other side.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>You just said you were 'un-armed'. Which is it?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>I was just here to provide info on martial arts. You're the one tromping in here with the "guns are better" attitude. Let's review.

1) I was giving G-man some martial arts info.
2) You made a useless point that had nothing to do with the thread, implying guns' superiority over martial arts.
3) I yawned, sensing another pointless debate with another tunnel-visioned gun fanatic.
4) Not surprisingly, you created a ridiculous scenerio where I get shot while I yawned, I guess the purpose being to prove to me that guns are deadly. Well thanks for the info, Jack. You sure scared me straight. Calling me "stupid" really clinched it too.
5) I point out that it's pointless to continue the discussion further if that's the attitude you're going to take.
6) You come back with the "I know what you're going to say, so don't bother saying it" response, which I found ironic, since I had no intention of discussing with you the merits of martial arts training, seeing as how you've already made up your mind. I mean with the enormous "well over a year" experience that you have, I'm sure you know what you're talking about.
7) Being slightly irritated and tired of the thread at this point, I suggest we mind our own businesses.
8) You accuse me of putting words into your mouth, even though the attitude you've taken so far reflects what I said.

I'm only as polite as someone is to me. From the beginning, and at every point afterwards, you were less than diplomatic, so I returned in kind. But I'm tired of it now. I was interested in talking about martial arts, not debate personality conflicts with other members of the board. So again, whatever. You do your thing and I'll do mine.

Zhuge Liang</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '><i>"Martial Arts can are neat and all, but I'll just be a gun person, thanks."

"Yeah, you just go on yawning till you get a .44 puncture wound through your left lung. Then let's see who still has 'the air'."</i>

What, might I ask, were you attempting to imply here? You said, essentially "martial arts are cool, but guns make them useless." Regardless of what you may or may not think, this is what you said.

And, if anything, <i>you're</i> the one being arrogant, not Zhuge. He was basically just trying to tell you to shut up.

Seriously, man, this "asshole" thing you've got going wasn't cool back at the MTH and it's not cool now. Stop being a dickhead.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>I have some swords. Compared to a gun, I am.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>I'm not telling you to achieve psychic oneness with the universe and read my mind here, but some of this stuff is totally off the wall. If it seems like it's crazy and over the top coming from me, IT IS, AND INTENTIONALLY. Jesus, "Puncturewound"? I'm not telling Zhuge to buy a gun and give up on his 'hopeless' martial arts, it's off-color commentary.

As for mentioning the MTH, what the hell are you talking about? That was years ago, and I don't see how it fits into any context whatsoever.

In closing, buy a clue, you vapid rug-humping queef.

Yeah, that was me being an over-the-top asshole again. Did you catch it that time? You're a big boy Gentz, you should be able to clarify these things with barely a passing thought by yourself.

RAKE IN TREES ARE FOR THE BEES TO ACHIEVE,. HOMES! GO FOR THE NIGHT IYWS ISS THE FRIGHT ASSS BLOTTEN A K THX BYE.</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>D'OH! NO! YOU'RE TOO SLOW1 NOW YOU CAN'T GO _&USLpA Q TO THE BOAT SHOW. BLORT GG ZHUGE WAY TO RIDE THAT LUGE a A KASEY KASEM LOVES A WINNER(*</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Nevermind, man. I was just having a bad night and everything was pissing me off. I really could care less what you do : )</div>

<div style='font: 10pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>No problem, happens all the time. This place requires 'civil' behavior, in any case, so I can don that disguise if need be.</div>

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>If you're a hundred pounds heavier than the guy then it wouldn't really matter how you punched</div>