Hey, the new Eminem album is in stores today, I'm going to pick it up after work.

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Hey, the new Eminem album is in stores today, I'm going to pick it up after work.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>how the hell can you like that piece of shit? Rap is bad enough... but Eminem is a textbook example of a person I'd like to kill slowly</div>

[WolfSamurai]

<div style='font: 14pt Agatha; text-align: left; '>You know, I think most rappers are no-talent musical rejects that can't be even bothered to come up with their own tunes (sampling is just laziness), but even I'm forced to admit that Eminem has talent. I don't like him or his music, but he's talented.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>well I agree about rappers being no-talent rejects sitting on a street corner rythming to a beat... but how does Eminem have talent? Pissing people off and being a jackass isn't a talent</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Why do people hate rap so much, I mean damn. I hear more people dis rap then any other kind of music. Why can't you let people enjoy what they like listening to and shut the hell up?</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>I'd rather listen to a song by Eminem one hundred times over than listen to a single bitchy verse by any punk band.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I really don't see where I posted "Whine like a bitch if you don't like rap and hate Eminem," but serious, get a life.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Some people just think it's cool to bash rap, luckily those types of people rarely come out in public.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I really don't see where I posted "Whine like a bitch if you don't like rap and hate Eminem," yet that appears to be what you're doing. Little advice to you, get a life.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Overall, it seams to be not as dark as the D12 album, and certainly much cleaner. This is the heaviest album Eminem's ever come out with. It still has the same skit style that his first two albums had, each song tells some sort of story. A wide variety of instruments used in it.

Plus the CD comes with a free DVD =)</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Try and think about getting up on a stage in front of hundreds of people and completely improvising verses - <i>then</i> come back and tell me that rappers have no talent.

That being said, I hate most of the rappers on MTV. The ones who seem to only care about their music insofar as it keeps up the payments on their chrome lawn furniture. But I could say the same for most every band that gets played on MTV.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Well I passed by all record stores today, and it was sold out everywhere. :P</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I'm not surprised, the place I work sold out of 60 copies by 4:30 PM the first day of its release.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>That's improvisational talent, not musical talent. That's my point</div>

[G-man Joe]

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>Like most rappers, he'll be forgotten in 5 years or star in B rated movies.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>simply put: I don't believe it to be music</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>He's doing the latter :P I don't remember what the name of it is though.. saw previews a few months back</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>8 Mile.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Riiiight.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Yeah, just like we never hear anything from Tupac, Biggie, Ice Cube, Puffy, Method Man, Snoop Dogg, or anything from any of them anymore. But yet, you'll never miss anything from any non-rap bands like Chumabawama (or whatever), Jewel, or The Spice Girls when out on a night on the town... riiiiight!</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>You know, you'd get along with my great grandmother, she has the same opinion on music as you do. Get with the times man!</div>

[G-man Joe]

<div style='font: 11pt "comic sans MS"; text-align: left; '>How dare you? I listen to rock. Not pop. Anyway, there's nothing worth listening on the radio anymore....I sound like Sine...but it's true(for me anyway).</div>

[Sephy]

<div style='font: 12pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>So why do you have to look at it as a purely musical standpoint? No one compares Eminem to the Beatles or something...Eminem has a lot of talent</div>

[Sephy]

<div style='font: 12pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>Just because something isn't accompanied by guitar or other instrument does not make it non-music</div>

[Sephy]

<div style='font: 12pt "Times New Roman"; text-align: left; '>My favorite by far is Till I Collapse..awesome</div>

[Drew S.]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>If you want to slam Tess' opinions, fine. That's perfectly legit. But bringing in your ability to effortlessly turn any message board into a Diablo II chatroom is really ugly.

Just because you like rap and can talk shit doesn't mean that it's a good thing to do. Leave everyone's personal lives alone and focus on talking, not humiliating people. My advice to you. Ultimately it just makes you look less worthwhile.

Sincerely,</div>

[Drew S.]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Tess, I think your definition of music doesn't do the multitudes of possible musical forms out there justice. Who says stuff has to have a melody to be music?</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Improvisational verse requires a poetic soul</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Jesus, Tessian, if it's not Sineswiper it's you. Don't be an ignorant oaf who sees everything with different cultural origins as stupid.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I've always been intolerant towards people who disrespect my posts just like 80% of the people here. His post isn't a simple opinion. That's all there is to it.</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Really? I always picked you out for a Madonna/Michael Jackson fan =P</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Really? I always picked you out as a Madonna/Michael Jackson fan =P</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Maybe the same time you decided it was your job to take everyone aside and scold them for behaving a way you didn't think they should? Tessian ripped on Seeker, so Seeker ripped on him. Seems fair.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>I hate rap and nearly everything related with them. Can I explain my feelings? Not in a way that would please you people, no. The lyrics, the lack of most musical elements besides rhythm; it's offensive to listen to and doesn't strike me as music. And before you say anything, it takes a LOT to offend me. Rather, I find most rappers and a good deal of their audience to be ignorant, not the other way around.

I'd rant more, but I've got prommin' to do</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>I resent that comment cock sucker...... :-p</div>

[Drew S.]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>you're right...i overreacted. sorry about that. i'm staying out of it from here on.</div>

[Drew S.]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>I've always been like this. Getting less so though. It's just that when I started this board I had a very anti-flame attitude in mind. I feel like coming here more when people aren't so goddamn hostile.</div>

[Stephen]

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Ass. ;p</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>In this particular case, I think Tessian instigated it.</div>

[Derithian]

<div style='font: italic bold 14pt ; text-align: center; '>cock holster :-D</div>

[Drew S.]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Agreed. They should both be beaten with, er...uh, well, I suppose they shouldn't be anything. But less flames would still be nice!</div>

[Gone to Shakers]

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Hey, I don't know about you, but I think a good flame war is nice once in a while, it gets the board activity up =P</div>

[Kupek]

<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Yeah, it would be nice.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Honestly, he's right. At least when it's a Ruminations flame war, we get some intellectual ground covered.</div>

[Gentz]

<div style='font: 11pt arial; text-align: left; '>Rap is closer to performance poetry than it is to traditional singing. It relies on changing cadences, complex rhyme schemes and alliterative verse rather than changes in tone/pitch/etc. Rap originated in this way, with two people taking turns creating bits of improvised verse back and forth. When you say "Rap is not music" you are judging aspects of one culture by the standards of another culture. That is the very definition of ignorance. Really, just claiming to possess an absolute definition of music is ignorant enough, let alone not allowing certain types of music to be included in that defintion because they have different cultural origins.

And before the turns into the eternally stupid "I'm free to have my opinion" argument, let me say that it's fine with me if you don't like rap - I'm not even a huge rap fan myself. But you're not simply stating your opinion here, you're making an objective assertion as to the value of rap music, and objective assertions are always arguable positions.</div>

[SineSwiper]

<div style='font: 11pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light"; text-align: left; '>Prime example: Snoop Dogg. Himself as a person is kinda interesting, but his songs suck. Filled with 80's synths, and backbeats ripped from a Casiotone's beatbox. Of course, the rapping is trite "ghetto life" bullshit. Honestly, rap has the most potential in hybrid bands like:

<b>Bionic Jive:</b> Combine two hardcore rappers with three hardcore metalists, and you've got a hardcore metal-rap band. No, a REAL metal-rap band, not that pop-metal bullshit you've been hearing on the radio. No mention of "ghetto life", except to dismiss the hype that other rappers have been spewing out about it.

<b>Digital Assassins:</b> Rappers spin records, too. Shit, that's how they started out, back when it was actually a cool genre. Now, some of them are back in that groove with electronica going on the rise.

<b>Insane Clown Posse:</b> I don't know what it is with these guys, but they always think about their background music. They aren't fucking the whole song up with some pussy-assed backbeat, especially since Bizaar Bizzar. Plus, they are funny, which makes it interesting.</div>

[Eric]

<div style='font: 11pt ; text-align: left; '>Everybody dislikes the Insane Clown Posse, yet you use them as an example of how rap should be done.......sheesh</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>I wouldn't call it flaming though... and let it be known had you mentioned ANYONE ELSE besides M&M I wouldn't have said a word; even if it was another rapper.

I take a horribly dislike to rap (and I'm kinda surprised that I'm alone on this around here), and I take offense to that... human being. You won't listen to my reasoning anyway, and I doubt I could convey my reasoning correctly or even make sense

Sometimes it's fun to have some controversy; look at all the attention this thread's gotten and then go look at Daily Stuph-- exactly. The only problem here is I'm fighting a mostly alone here with a small arsenal because I refuse to listen to the crap.</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>I didn't say it wasn't music at all because thanks to the definition of music rap gets in because it has a rhythm.

Thank the word 'or' for this...</div>

[Tessian]

<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>Too bad I don't have more on my side.. or that I'm not willing to 'dirty' myself by learning more about said subject by listening to it... *cringe*

It was bad enough that they played one of his songs at the prom</div>