Saw both The Rookie and We Were Soldiers....
PostPosted:Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:22 pm
<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>We'll start with the easy one: The Rookie. A product of the Disney super-hype, this movie wasn't nearly as good as every paid-off critic and resulting box-office take would indicate. It's not NEARLY as good as the great baseball movies we've seen (before any of you even start, yes, there has been great baseball movies) like Field of Dreams and 61* (I keep hearing how great The Natural is, but I've never seen it). It's just another "meh" film, following the summer trend. 'Nuff said.
Now for We Were Soldiers. Let me start off by saying this is EASILY the best of the big 4 post-9/11 war films.....unfortunately, that's like saying Barry Bonds is a better baseball player than Luis Alicia (yes, Alicia is actually a current player) or that FF6 is better than FF7......it's so obvious it's a fact, not an opinion. So let us compare it to Platoon, since everyone's seen that one, it's considered maybe the best war movie of all time, and they both Vietnam films. We Were Soldiers is ALMOST as good as Platoon, although a few things keep it from being right up there. Let's take care of the bad right away, since it's not too much. First off, the American chest pounding. Considering this is a big-budget film with one of the biggest stars AND it's a war film, it was there and in-your-face. Not being American, I have less tolerance for that than most of you I would imagine and often times, movies get dragged down big-time because filmmakers REALLY overdo it. Thank GOD they kept it to a minimum in this film, it was more like a minimum requirement than an integral part of the story. Drags the film down, but only ever so slightly. Next is what I like to call the "human factor". Now, I'm all for this in movies, particularly war movies, where I feel it's necessary, but the formula has now gotten to the point where you can predict it from a mile away. I'm talking about the women mainly, since they're always just bit characters who do nothing but cry, bond with each other, and you always end up with the one strong one that holds them together. It may be super-accurate, but it's pure formula now and makes the female characters nothing more than window dressing...give me something different. In We Were Soldiers, they did a great job of incorporating the formula without killing the real story or taking away from the surreal action going on. The female scenes were more like a nice break in the action without being too in-your-face. It's just too bad the female charcters weren't any more than window dressing again, 2D all the way. I'd love to see a current war film with very strong female characters, I just don't think it'll happen (Starship Troopers doesn't count). And yes, it can be done and still remain realistic to the times. The final complaint is the follow-me-and-you-will-survive bits from the Gibson character. MAN, this is FUCKING tired and WAAAAAAY over done (even more than my WAAAAY). If anyone wants an example of pure Hollywood formula, that's it. It's in almost every war movie ever made..even if the leader died at the end. I just don't want to fucking see it anymore. Again, you can see it from a mile away and it makes me cringe every time. It was a necessary evil of the film, and again, since it wasn't completely overdone (there was quite a bit of it) and the rest of the film was so good, I can deal with it.
Now let's get to the good stuff of the film. First off, the action scenes. WOW. Amazing. I'll give Black Hawk Down credit it that it had amazing action scenes and We Were Soldiers is right up there with it, Private Ryan, and Platoon. Just incredible. I can see how the vets EsquE talked to loved it for it's realism. It's among the most realistic film in that respect from all the stuff I've ever read about what actually happened there (not a HUGE amount, but enough to get an idea). And the great thing about it is, they didn't grandstand the action at all, it was just what it was: violent and intense, particularly for the greener soldiers. Not once did the filmmakers show the action or combat off in an overly dramatic manner other than some slow-mo stuff, but that's more atmospheric effect than grandstanding. Not once did I cringe and say to myself "bullshit, it wasn't like that". It was the opposite, it was just completely surreal, made you feel like that's how it really was, which is what all good war films do. The actual story itself is pretty good, a much better we're-outnumbered-but-we-win story from Black Hawk Down. Since they're both based on true events, it's nothing to do with the writing, I just though the We Were Soldiers story was better. And lest I forget, this has gotta be the only war movie I've ever seen where the enemy is actually portrayed as human, not as faceless soldiers. Nothing surprised me more than the depth they gave the Vietnamese Colonel. It came out of nowhere and was a very pleasant surprise. It was basically what separates this movie from the crowd and makes it one of the better war films. They spent a lot more time showing the VietCon (and not just the Colonel) as human beings that fight for their country than I ever though would be allowed in a Hollywood war film. I bought Tora, Tora, Tora! basically on this basis alone, but that was a 70's film and we're in post-9/11 now, so I never thought I'd EVER see it again (incidentally, haven't seen Tora yet, but it's on the top of my list, even more so after We Were Soldiers).
There was so much to love about this movie and it's problems are contained and don't detract from it very much; all they do is stop it from being in the upper echelon of all-time great films. But it's still very much up there, easily the best one since Saving Ryan's Privates. If you like war movies at all, watch it. I'll definetely be picking this one up (used, of course, but only because it'll be readily available for 1/2 the new price in about 3 weeks; if it was an older film, I'ld get it new).
Looks like you were actually right on a film, EsquE. Amazing</div>
Now for We Were Soldiers. Let me start off by saying this is EASILY the best of the big 4 post-9/11 war films.....unfortunately, that's like saying Barry Bonds is a better baseball player than Luis Alicia (yes, Alicia is actually a current player) or that FF6 is better than FF7......it's so obvious it's a fact, not an opinion. So let us compare it to Platoon, since everyone's seen that one, it's considered maybe the best war movie of all time, and they both Vietnam films. We Were Soldiers is ALMOST as good as Platoon, although a few things keep it from being right up there. Let's take care of the bad right away, since it's not too much. First off, the American chest pounding. Considering this is a big-budget film with one of the biggest stars AND it's a war film, it was there and in-your-face. Not being American, I have less tolerance for that than most of you I would imagine and often times, movies get dragged down big-time because filmmakers REALLY overdo it. Thank GOD they kept it to a minimum in this film, it was more like a minimum requirement than an integral part of the story. Drags the film down, but only ever so slightly. Next is what I like to call the "human factor". Now, I'm all for this in movies, particularly war movies, where I feel it's necessary, but the formula has now gotten to the point where you can predict it from a mile away. I'm talking about the women mainly, since they're always just bit characters who do nothing but cry, bond with each other, and you always end up with the one strong one that holds them together. It may be super-accurate, but it's pure formula now and makes the female characters nothing more than window dressing...give me something different. In We Were Soldiers, they did a great job of incorporating the formula without killing the real story or taking away from the surreal action going on. The female scenes were more like a nice break in the action without being too in-your-face. It's just too bad the female charcters weren't any more than window dressing again, 2D all the way. I'd love to see a current war film with very strong female characters, I just don't think it'll happen (Starship Troopers doesn't count). And yes, it can be done and still remain realistic to the times. The final complaint is the follow-me-and-you-will-survive bits from the Gibson character. MAN, this is FUCKING tired and WAAAAAAY over done (even more than my WAAAAY). If anyone wants an example of pure Hollywood formula, that's it. It's in almost every war movie ever made..even if the leader died at the end. I just don't want to fucking see it anymore. Again, you can see it from a mile away and it makes me cringe every time. It was a necessary evil of the film, and again, since it wasn't completely overdone (there was quite a bit of it) and the rest of the film was so good, I can deal with it.
Now let's get to the good stuff of the film. First off, the action scenes. WOW. Amazing. I'll give Black Hawk Down credit it that it had amazing action scenes and We Were Soldiers is right up there with it, Private Ryan, and Platoon. Just incredible. I can see how the vets EsquE talked to loved it for it's realism. It's among the most realistic film in that respect from all the stuff I've ever read about what actually happened there (not a HUGE amount, but enough to get an idea). And the great thing about it is, they didn't grandstand the action at all, it was just what it was: violent and intense, particularly for the greener soldiers. Not once did the filmmakers show the action or combat off in an overly dramatic manner other than some slow-mo stuff, but that's more atmospheric effect than grandstanding. Not once did I cringe and say to myself "bullshit, it wasn't like that". It was the opposite, it was just completely surreal, made you feel like that's how it really was, which is what all good war films do. The actual story itself is pretty good, a much better we're-outnumbered-but-we-win story from Black Hawk Down. Since they're both based on true events, it's nothing to do with the writing, I just though the We Were Soldiers story was better. And lest I forget, this has gotta be the only war movie I've ever seen where the enemy is actually portrayed as human, not as faceless soldiers. Nothing surprised me more than the depth they gave the Vietnamese Colonel. It came out of nowhere and was a very pleasant surprise. It was basically what separates this movie from the crowd and makes it one of the better war films. They spent a lot more time showing the VietCon (and not just the Colonel) as human beings that fight for their country than I ever though would be allowed in a Hollywood war film. I bought Tora, Tora, Tora! basically on this basis alone, but that was a 70's film and we're in post-9/11 now, so I never thought I'd EVER see it again (incidentally, haven't seen Tora yet, but it's on the top of my list, even more so after We Were Soldiers).
There was so much to love about this movie and it's problems are contained and don't detract from it very much; all they do is stop it from being in the upper echelon of all-time great films. But it's still very much up there, easily the best one since Saving Ryan's Privates. If you like war movies at all, watch it. I'll definetely be picking this one up (used, of course, but only because it'll be readily available for 1/2 the new price in about 3 weeks; if it was an older film, I'ld get it new).
Looks like you were actually right on a film, EsquE. Amazing</div>