The Other Worlds Shrine

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  • For those of you who are fans of the Lord of the Rings books, and don't mind spoilers on the Extended Edition DVD for the two Towers, read ahead. As a fan of the book, they have added in everything I could have asked for...

  • Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
Your favorite band sucks, and you have terrible taste in movies.
 #55916  by Julius Seeker
 Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:00 am
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>#1 The scenes with the Ents have been expanded, now to include more interaction with the Ents with Merry and Pippin. Also a great new addition are the Huorns, the Tree's that are not quite trees and not quite Ents. Third, there is the scene with the Ent Draught which Merry and Pippin drink and allows them to grow a bit.

#2 The ending of the movie has been greatly expanded upon. It will now include Merry and Pippin finding the Pipe weed and other goods which they found in the book, there is more footage in this battle. Next the Huorns DO take part in the battle of Helms Deep, a Forest appears just beyond the Hornburg (not shown in the theatrical) and the Orcs are killed as they try to escape through it, this makes the battle completely accurate by the book standards.

#3 Gondor, there will be scenes of Minas Tirith, flashbacks to Boromir. Denethor is also a part of this. They give some much added depth to Boromir's character.

#4 This is one I think people are definetly going to look forward too. Faramir gets a lot more character development, and so his character will be like that of the book than rather what was seen in the theatrical version. This is both in Ithilien (the land where he found Frodo and Pippin, where the forbidden pool is) and Osgiliath (from which he helps Frodo and Sam escape, this is an important part considering how the story went in the book).

#5 Saruman has more scenes, as does Gandalf, these scenes are mainly for forshadowing purposes into the next movie. There is more on why Saruman is attacking Rohan and his relation with the Barad-Dur. Also, there is a lot (mainly dealing with Gandalf and Aragorn) on the politics of this war which both help the plot development in the movie and develop a stronger relationship with the upcoming movie.

#6 More on Theodred and Aragorn/Eowyn's relationship. As well, Elrond in Lothlorien. It shows the battle in which Theodred is killed.

There is more to this, of course, including dozens of smaller scenes. There is a total of 43 minutes of added footage which is 50% more than what was added to the Fellowship. So in essense, watching the Extended edition DVD will be like watching the movie again for the first time. As was in the Fellowship, there will be all new commentary, and 6+ hours of all new bonus video material on 2 bonus DVD's.

It's still four months off, but I can't wait! =)</div>
 #55917  by SineSwiper
 Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:56 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>#1 The ents never said "no"
#2 The battle against the orcs didn't include elves. (At least they have the battle with the trees now.)
#3 Gamling never sought after the ring like his brother did.</div>

 #55920  by Flip
 Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:40 pm
<div style='font: 12pt "Cooper Black"; text-align: left; '>i waited for the first special edition and loved it, thus i will wait again for all the kickass reasons you just mentioned!</div>

 #55923  by Tessian
 Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:45 pm
<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>exactly-- those bugged me too, although the changes in the extended do help a little</div>
 #55943  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:28 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>And that was the scene where Aragorn fell off the cliff and had all that dream crap with Arwen flashing back and stuff. Those flashbacks were in the book, briefly mentioned, but personally I felt that they overcomplicated the film for non-readers. I can live with a few flashbacks to show the difficulty between Arwen and Elrond, because I know what it's building up to in the Return of the King; however, I didn't like how Aragorn fell off the cliff, seemed like a waste of time. They could have replaced that whole scene with a final battle against Shelob leaving for a suspensful ending, and then maybe they could have fit one of my favorite chapters of the book into the movie, The Scouring of the Shire.

The Elves at the Battle of Helms Deep can be forgiven:

In the book Legolas made a wish something along the lines "What I would give to have 300 Elven archers from Mirkwood". Also, Elves from Lothlorien did take part in the war, but they weren't in that battle, rather they were battleing in Northern Rohan, not far from Fangorn forest, against the Forces of Sauron who were trying to penetrate the region from his secondary fortress in Southern Mirkwood. There were Elves in Rohan later on, but they came from Rivendel with Rangers to aid Aragorn on his quest through the Paths of the Dead.

The Ents saying no, I do not even understand this, it seemed like a very pointless change to the movie, it's not a huge issue, but I think it sort of throws a wrench into the flow of the movie and the story.

Faramir's character portrayl in the theatrical version (maybe it changes somehow in the Extended edition), that was a very poor decision by Peter Jackson. First of all, that definetly changes the plot, as Faramir was a character who had strong morals and wasn't ambitious like his brother Boromir, he also very much wanted the approval of his father, but his father (Denethor) disliked him, believing he was not nearly the man Boromir was. In the movie it seems like they weakened his characters morals somewhat, I am not sure what sort of effect they will have, but I definetly did not see Faramir in the theatrical version as being as Noble of a character as he was in the book (standing beside Prince Imrahil, and Eomer in character; in this one it seems as if he is less Noble than Eomer at least). Peter Jackson seems as if he would rather focus on Faramir striving to impress his father.</div>
 #55946  by SineSwiper
 Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:13 pm
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>In reference to the Ents, that was a big plothole, as they talked about how long it took them to talk in Old Ent, and then the Ent took one look at the damage that had taken place in the forest, and suddenly everybody just came out, as if they didn't need to start another meeting or anything. Whatever happened to talking in Old Ent?

Peter, why are such a fucking asshole? Just give us the fucking story word-for-word. I can excuse it if you need to cut a few scenes for such a long and think series of books, but don't change the fucking story. Jesus, I haven't even read the books, and this kind of thing just pisses me off.</div>

 #55947  by Kupek
 Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:37 pm
<div style='font: 10pt verdana; text-align: left; padding: 0% 10% 0% 10%; '>Things that work in books don't necessarily work in movies. I'm readin the Harry Potter books, and I'm rewatching the two movies. A few things were changed - mainly, things were taken out. When things are taken out, quite a few things down the line need to be changed.</div>
 #55952  by G-man Joe
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:24 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>...cliff scene with Strider. Jackson's intention : when Strider makes it back to Helm's Deep, he is greeted by Legolas who immediately gives him the pendant of Arwen. Here, Eowin witnesses this and steps back and holds here feeling at bay. She can not have Strider. Also, this conveys to the audience that Strider is still faithful to Arwen. Another thing about this cliff scene, Strider has a chance to witness the army of Saruman. This information is passed on to the Rohans at Helm's Deep which only causes discourages Legolas, thus causing an argument between Strider and Legolas.

The deviation of the story of Faramir does disappoint me, as well. He was nearly as noble as Strider in the book and the power of the Ring had nothing on him. But I think Jackson wanted to show that humans are truly weak and that it takes the brave actions of two Hobbits to get Faramir to see our human flaws.</div>
 #55953  by G-man Joe
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:27 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>...cliff scene with Strider. Jackson's intention : when Strider makes it back to Helm's Deep, he is greeted by Legolas who immediately gives him the pendant of Arwen. Here, Eowin witnesses this and steps back and holds her feelings for Strider at bay. She realizes that she can not have Strider. Also, this conveys to the audience that Strider had always been faithful to Arwen. Another thing about this cliff scene, Strider has a chance to witness the army of Saruman. This information is passed on to the Rohans at Helm's Deep which only causes discourages Legolas, thus causing an argument between Strider and Legolas. Also, the King scoffs at the large army. He's right until the the powder keg scene. =8^D

The deviation of the story of Faramir does disappoint me, as well. He was nearly as noble as Strider in the book and the power of the Ring had nothing on him. But I think Jackson wanted to show that humans are truly weak and that it takes the brave actions of two Hobbits to get Faramir to see our human flaws.</div>

 #55954  by G-man Joe
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:43 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Word for word? Song for song? Would you sit in a movie for 12 straight hours?</div>

 #55956  by Tessian
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:12 pm
<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>some of those changes made no sense to change, that's all that ticks me off. I can understand most changes and agree, but a few I just couldn't figure out</div>

 #55957  by SineSwiper
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:20 pm
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Again, I can excuse cut scenes, but changing the meaning of the story doesn't make sense.</div>

 #55958  by G-man Joe
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:02 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>6 hours is okay?</div>
 #55959  by Julius Seeker
 Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:37 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>In the books, Arwen gave the pendent to Frodo in the return of the King as reward for his deeds, it was a fairly important scene. You are right though, Peter Jackson wanted to put more of Arwen into that scene, thus the flashbacks and everything. Seeing the army was just another added bonus that he thew in, but the exact same effect could have been achieved with alternative methods which wouldn't have put that speed bump in the flow of the movie.</div>

 #55969  by Tessian
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:59 am
<div style='font: 11pt Dominion; text-align: left; '>you're missing the point, dingus. It's one thing to change the story for length or movie reasons, but another to change parts of it for no reason with no benefit for doing so</div>

 #55970  by G-man Joe
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:12 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Read my reply above about why Jackson made those changes, dorkus.</div>
 #55971  by G-man Joe
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:59 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>....Arwen and Strider are for each other. The book showed little substance between the two compared to how Jackson directed it.</div>

 #55975  by SineSwiper
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:26 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>And what about the Ents?</div>

 #55976  by G-man Joe
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:40 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Yes, that was another deviation but in the end, they did their part.</div>
 #55977  by Julius Seeker
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:24 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '><I>But the Queen Arwen said: 'A gift I will give to you. For I am the daughter of Elrond. I shall not go with him now when he departs to the Havensl for mine is the choice of Luthien, and as she so have I chosen, both the sweet and the bitter. But in my stead you shall go, Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it. If your hurts grieve you still and the memory of your burden heavy, then you may pass into the West, until all your wounds and weariness are healed. But wear this now in memory of Elfstone and Evenstar with whom your life has been woven!'
And she took a white gem like a star that lay upon her breast hanging upon a silver chain, and she set the chain about Frofo's neck. 'When the memory of the fear and the darkness troubles you, she said, 'this will bring you aid.'</I>


Other than that I had little problem with the whole Arwen thing. I think it was a good idea to substitute Glorfindel for Arwen, but for one thing: When Glorfindel fought the Ring Wraiths at the ford, Frodo could see his spiritual form, because like the Ring Wraiths, part of Glorfindel resided in the spiritual realm because he was an Elf Lord from the West. It's not really important to the story itself, but it is important to the whole Tolkien mythology where the Lord of the Rings is just the tip of the iceburg.

The scenes with Arwen and Elrond feuded about her fate did take place in the story, but only mentioned, Jackson elaborated upon them. I understand how it gives more depth into that relationship, but I found those to be the most boring parts of the movie =P
Tolkien throughout the book used a literary device where he would mention that the events occured as if they were a part of history, and then he would move onto the main plot. Unlike many authors who just write everything, Tolkien put an enormous amount of thought into his work and made sure it all came out to perfection.

The prophecy dream sequence I can deal with too, afterall, it does happen exactly that way in the book. Return of the King: Pg 416-426, the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn. Peter Jackson has just taken this tale from Appendix A and integrated into the plot, Tolkien felt that it was important that people knew these events, but knew also that they did not fit in well with the main flow of the story, so he stuck them here at the back; unfortuanetly.

I mean, I of course very much appreciate the movie Peter Jackson created, but changing some of the events is like changing the events in the movie "The Ten Commandments" from Exodus.

On a side note, Tolkien does have notes available on the fall of Gondor and the third breaking of the world. All I know is that it revolves around an evil force taking route in the nation of Gondor. He was going to write another book with the same scope of Lord of the Rings, but instead decided to dedicate the rest of his time to working on the third form of his Lost Tales book, which would be the Silmarillion; it was those tales of the first age which he was most passionate about.</div>
 #55979  by G-man Joe
 Fri Aug 01, 2003 1:13 pm
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>...Arwen didn't show up until the end of the third book. The rest of the time she was just mentioned by name.

I need to review. It's been two years.</div>

 #55991  by SineSwiper
 Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:17 am
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>Except of course, the entire ending to the battle.</div>

 #55996  by G-man Joe
 Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:44 am
<div style='font: 11pt "Fine Hand"; text-align: left; '>Tell me how the battle of the Ents vs Saruman ended in Book 2 - refresh my memory.</div>

 #56002  by SineSwiper
 Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:43 pm
<div style='font: 10pt "EngraversGothic BT", "Copperplate Gothic Light", "Century Gothic"; text-align: left; '>I'm talking about the lack of Ents in the other battle.</div>

 #56003  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:47 pm
<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>They fixed that in extended version, thankfully.</div>