The Shrine

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Recently I've been more involved in Anime since I joined a fansub group (because they're translating Fate/Stay Night) and I have noticed a very disturbing trend. Anime fans are basically afraid to admit they like characters in Anime. People are quick to label each other as pedo/Loli lovers for liking certain underage characters in the world of Anime/Manga (it's less of a problem in games since games usually sell via Lara Croft type characters, which is certainly not pedo-ish by any stretch of imagination). It's like people feel the need to label each other as messed up so they can feel better about liking some other character, and this isn't just something in US-based areas either. Actually it's probably worse in Japan. At Typemoon's site for character vote, virtually all the Ilya (character in my sig) votes talk about *Ilya Moe!* which is the current term people use over Loli since Loli (aka Lolita) sounds like you're some kind of twisted pervert, even though in this context it means exactly the same thing.

I mean, maybe all the considerable number of Ilya fans in a game with an incredible cast are all just twisted pedophiles, or maybe more realistically people are attracted to her duality that the game spends so much time emphasizing. There are literally a gazillion Loli bait characters in the world of Anime but no character I know of plays the angel and the devil role as well as she does. But because her design is obviously Loli bait, it's like if you like her you have to say you're a pedo, because it'd be illegal to like an underage female Anime character for any reason other than being a pedophile. Certainly people who are on the other character camp, especially Saber camp, is quick to point out that your favorite character is Loli bait while their character is just standard RPG boring goody-goody heroine so you're obviously fine for liking a boring standard character like that. That's like saying if you like Lara Croft it means you're okay because you're only a generic hormone-driven male so that must be okay. It's apparently okay to like games such as Tomb Raider, Dead or Alive, or FFX2 which obviously relys on the sex appeal, and that's fine but if you like anyone from Anime that's not an obviously fan service character you need to reconsider your mental stability.

What's interesting is that people who are quick to dismiss other people's preferences as abnormal would fall into the same categories. Rei from Eva is widely popular and she is the founder of the Loli bait movement. But Eva is popular, and Rei is popular, so it's okay? Or how about Rikku in FFX2, who is probably less than Loli bait?</div>

<div style='font: 9pt ; text-align: left; '>What do you mean by "like"? I'm not sure if you mean thinking sexually about the character or by appreciating and/or attracted to the character herself (for her personality, deeds, asthetically, etc.). Or do you mean both?

I'm not particularlly familiar with the game, except from a few of your posts that I've read, so I'm not sure what you mean.

If you mean the latter, I dunno. I see nothing wrong with that, I guess others simply misinterpret it as a dirter more sexual type of thing.

If by the former, uhh, well I guess it's not actual pediophilia since the character herself does not actually exist. So I suppose it could be called a theoretical pediophilia, just like Kerry is supposedly a theoretical pussy.

Now that I'm thinking of it, this is kind of an odd case. My personal rule of thumb for adding to my... *ahem* "art gallery", is that if the chick hasn't even grown out her breasts yet, I want no peice of that. And while I personally find it distasteful, my real problem with pediophilia is that I think of it as child abuse.

However, since this Ilya is a video game character, she doesn't exist in the literal flesh and blood sense, and therefore couldn't really be subject to child abuse, could she?

So while I don't have any taste for it, I can't really say it's particularlly sick, since it's the abuse part of it I find sickening.

But of course, there will be others who will readily call it sick, since it has many blatant paralells with actual pediophilia. Namely: Underage kid plus naked and/or fucking.

You're probably just going to be stuck with the whole "Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it must be a duck" philosophy.

As for Rei, well, I've got some of that, but if you perused my gallery, you'd notice she's got fully developed breasts in each and every pic, thank you very much. :)</div>

<div style='font: 10pt Arial; text-align: left; '>Of course, it's been two years or so since I've watched any anime series with a large fandom base, so my remarks may not apply now. Even so, what you're describing seems like a complete 180 from what I'm used to. I always thought one of the things about anime that appealed to people was precisely its preponderance of character-based fandoms.

But if you're right, and this is an indication of some sweeping anti-fandom trend, then I don't know what to tell you other than to keep on liking the characters you like and ignore the idiots who think it's "loli" to appreciate a well-developed character who happens to be adolescent or pubescent. If that's what these people really believe, then it's an excellent bet their opinions aren't worth listening to. It really is that simple.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Loli is defined with any *petite* character really, doesn't have to be just underage (though Loli bait characters are typically way underage). Anyway, a more accurate descritpion of Loli would be: Underdeveloped physically, not mature (but not necessarily immature), someone to be protected. Anyway Rei definitely falls under the Loli camp, and it's the people who make fun of people who are Loli/Pedo that always insist she's really not in the Loli camp, just bishojo (beautiful young girl), never mind the whole premise of she and Shinji's father (been so long I can't even remember his name) is like the original definition of Loli.

I like these characters the same way someone might like Legolas or Sephiroth or whatever. Sometimes it's the personality sometimes it's the looks, probably a bit of both. What I really don't get is that it's okay to like someone who obviously exists for sex appeal, say Tifa or Lara Croft, but liking a Loli characters get you in the pedo camp. I mean, it is true that an overwhelming amount of Loli characters exist the same way characters like Lara Croft exists. I don't know why it's considered okay to like someone who's obviously a sex symbol but not someone who is more on the Loli camp, especially since both characters are fake to begin with.</div>

<div style='font: 12pt ; text-align: left; '>Sure, there are hordes of people who are equivalent of "Sephiroth rulez" in Anime abound. But Fate being an 18+ game you end up people who are afraid to say they like soandso because of the nature of this game. Ilya is especially touchy because there was supposed to be an Ilya route where you end up having sex with her. Now Anime is loaded with girl-that-calls-main-character-as-big-brother but the game really did a good job describing their relationship as amicable and sibling-like. Even when she's out to kill you the game does a good job maintaining this relationship. That route was scrapped due to time limitation. Not only non-Ilya fans are quick to label anyone who likes Ilya as pedo but it even works like that from her own fans. I think it makes people feel better, something along the line like 'yeah my favorite character is Loli bait haha there I said it'. The truth was that Ilya route would've simply been a mistake. The pedo issue could've been easily circumvented since she is actually ~20 years old (her appearance is merely a result of her magic) so she could always revert to her normal age, but it doesn't change the fact that there was no romantic affection between the two characters, and that Ilya's mana would allow Shirou to fight Jesus plus two gods at once (sex allows Magis to transfer mana, and Ilya never uses her mana anyway so there's absolutely no reason why she can't give it all to you) which would utterly trivialize any of the fighting content.

Heck, it even works like that with the other characters. If you like Lancer you're automatically a drooling fangirl, even though he's one of the coolest character in the game. If you like a character that's obviously drawn to be cute or handsome, you're forced to take a corresponding label because it sure is illegal to like a handsome or cute character for any other reason. Yes I'm aware of plenty of characters that are shamelessly beautiful/cute/handsome that only exists to get drooling fan's money, but it's not a sin to be well-drawn, and that certainly doesn't preclude the ability for a character to still be interesting.</div>