Naruto 130

[Eric]

Told you there'd be a nice long Sasuke history arc. ;p

[M'k'n'zy]

Its still not over either. Probally at least half of the next episode to wrap it up, wouldn't you say?

[Eric]

No, full episode. They're slowing it down remember?

[Zeus]

They'd better fucking wrap it up next ep and get on to finishing the arc. If I don't see some Uchiha blood spill next ep, I'm flying to Japan and beating up the TV Tokyo people.....

[M'k'n'zy]

Doing all of the Sasuke backstory took a long time in the manga as well. Be patient.

[Eric]

Yeah and in the manga after the actual fight started we had to wait TWO weeks to get to the next part. >_<

[M'k'n'zy]

Then he took a month long break before he started Part 2.

[SineSwiper]

Yeah, agreed. All of this backstory is neat and all, but I want to see a fucking fight!

[M'k'n'zy]

Well as noted, from what of the backstory still needs to be told, and the pacing they are taking at this point, I would say that at least half of next episode, if not the whole episode, will be devoted to backstory. After all, Sasuke IS one of the main characters, not to mention the most popular character in Japan. It makes sense that they would spend some extra time on him. Just be patient and wait through it, you are in for one badass battle once it starts ^_^

[Zeus]

Potentially, this backstory sets up a helluva lot more than just this upcoming battle. I mean, Sasuke vs Itachi and that whole group Itachi and Orochimaru belong too wanting Naruto should be the basis for what's coming up after this arc is done.

It had better be a bad-ass battle, they've been building towards this one for a very, very long time. It had better be up there with the Naruto/Rock Lee vs Gaara fights and the Zabuze/Haku vs Team 7 fight.....

[M'k'n'zy]

From the manga I can honestly say its rather amazing. I am looking forward to seeing how they do the animation for some parts of it. I am thinknig the fight will last anywhere from 3 - 5 episodes.

[SineSwiper]

I still say that Naruto is Susuke's bitch, as illustrated by the little bit of fighting that they do. I almost laughed at Naruto's clones just falling apart. I'm sure he's thinking "Uhhh...uhhh...shit! No clones...errr...WTF do I do now?! That's my only technique!"

[Zeus]

lol, you and that one-technique boy. Like I said, he beat Gaara without using a single clone. Nor did he use one against Kabuto. And if the fight's as good as Big Daddy and Eric are making it out to be, you know that it's not going to be a one-sided bitch-slap fest. Besides, they've been building up this fight since the first 10 eps (the whole rivalry between Sasuke and Naruto started in the academy), so it's not going to be a disappointing fight.

Like I was saying before, what happens from now 'til the end of the arc potentially affects the future direction of the show, so they know they gotta do it right.

[SineSwiper]

lol, you and that one-technique boy. Like I said, he beat Gaara without using a single clone. Nor did he use one against Kabuto.

Actually, Naruto did use clones with Gaara, before he unleashed his demon side. Then he used his frog summon. As far as Kabuto, he didn't exactly beat Kabuto, just knocked him down.

No, he doesn't have one technique. He had three. And two of them are useless in this fight. His only weapon is the Rasengan, but it's not like he can use this over and over again.

[Eric]

Bah the whole fight is his Itachi's fault.

I went back and watched episode 83-84 today. When he learned Itachi was in town and looking for Naruto, the first thing Sasuke was thinking that was Itachi was after the life of his friend, and Sasuke had to protect him, because he couldn't protect his family, and he didn't want to lose any more loved ones.

Sasuke never REALLY had a problem with Naruto's growth until after Itachi beat him up, AGAIN. Ignore the filler stuff btw, it wasn't in the manga. After Naruto came home in the manga, they went straight from the hospital to Sasuke's little tussle with Naruto on the roof.

Basically Sasuke still looks up to his brother, and follows his brother's words regardless of the hatred he has for him. That's what this whole backstory is about really, Itachi's influence on Sasuke, and why it's led to Naruto vs Sasuke.

[M'k'n'zy]

Yeah that pretty much sums it up 100%. As Sasuke said, he gave serious thought to staying with Naruto and Sakura and staying in Konoha. Itachi showing up basicly threw the shit into the fan. Sasuke hates and respects his brother. You will remember that even when he saw how his brother seemed to be changing, he was still happy to see that his brother still seemed to like him. I get the impression that Sasuke thinks that Itachi WANTS Sasuke to kill him. He has never said it bluntly, but his attitude twords the whole thing kinda gives me that impression.

[SineSwiper]

It's a matter of Sasuke realizing that Itachi was right: he is still weak, especially in comparison to Itachi. During his whole time between their two encounters (destroying the clan, and at the hotel), Sasuke may have gotten more powerful, but Itachi has too, and even faster than Sasuke.

That was the moment that he realized that this Konoha thing wasn't working. He wasn't becoming powerful fast enough, and he knew that he couldn't beat his brother at this rate. He wanted to fight Naruto to remove the cornerstone of his life at Konoha. If he could beat him, he could move on and find a greater challenge elsewhere. Since his fight was stopped, and he was immediately greeted by the Four Sounds, he just skipped to Step 3. Kakashi understood what was going on in his head, but it was too late, and Sasuke made up his mind long ago.

Yes, Itachi wants to kill him, because he truly believes that Sasuke would be the only person in the world that COULD kill him. Itachi needs the challenge. The guy is so immensely powerful that only another one of the Uchiha clan, another one with his level of Sharingin, could kill him. Even Ochu sees this. I'm mean, fuck, the guy tortured Kakashi for 72 hours straight in the span of a few seconds! I couldn't even phantom to understand the level of pain that would be.

[M'k'n'zy]

First of all, Sasuke's decision wasnt that cut and dry. You could see when he was thinking after Kakashi left and after he fought the sound 4 that he was still having a tough decision. In fact, I think if the 4 of them hadn't attacked, there would have been a good chance he wouldn't have gone to Orochimaru. And as for the reason Sasuke wants to fight Naruto....well if I am right that will be revealed next episode.

[Zeus]

From what I recall, Sasuke's been getting pretty jealous of Naruto since about the Gaara fight, when he was essentially saved by him. Before that, he knew he was always superior to Naruto, even though Nine-Tails boy would just muscle his way through things. But when he couldn't beat Gaara even with the help of the curse while Naruto found a way, that really set Sasuke off and he began to say "dear Lord, what am I doin'? How can this doofus be stronger than me? If I keep this up, I'll never kill my bro". Then, when Itachi showed up and told Sasuke he was weak and that he was after Naruto, that set him off even more, which lead to the whole fight on top of the hospital. He was always the gifted one throughout the academy and now he was surpassed by idiot-boy. Then, when the four sound attacked him and showed him just how "weak" he really was, that was basically the final straw.

But he's always seen Naruto as kind of a measuring stick, as someone he needs to be stronger than. If not, he's just not strong enough to do what he wants, which is, namely, kill his bro. If there's any more than that, they haven't revealed it yet....

[M'k'n'zy]

I think next episode will answer a lot of questions. I just finished downloading it raw, gonna watch it in about 20 minutes, have been looking forward to this one.

[Eric]

Ugh, people keep trying to make it out like Sasuke was jealous of Naruto. >_> He was NEVER jealous of Naruto beating Garra, he was shocked, maybe a bit surprised, but he wasn't jealous. After all this is Naruto. Just because we like him doesn't mean the rest of the world is ready to see him burst into greatness or understand why he's so strong. Only the adults know Naruto has the Nine Tails Fox inside him.

And actually Sine, Sasuke considered the peaceful path....but like I said before Itachi showed up and messed that up. I imagine it's not something he can just put behind him...

[SineSwiper]

And actually Sine, Sasuke considered the peaceful path....but like I said before Itachi showed up and messed that up. I imagine it's not something he can just put behind him...

I doubt that. Killing Itachi has always been on his mind. Hell, while he was busy being frightfully scared of Ochi during the exam, his reason for popping out of it was that if he couldn't be unafraid to fight him, he certainly couldn't kill his brother.

Revenge has been his goal from day one. Over time, he was growing to tolerate his team, even though they were both annoying to him. (Frankly, they are annoying to me, too. At least Rock Lee has some power to back up his strange personality.) But, there have been hints and comments throughout that always show that his goal is revenge.

[M'k'n'zy]

Sine, in the scene where Sasuke was about to leave the village and Sakura was trying to stop him, he even ADMITS that he considered staying there with everybody. Yes, killing Itachi has always been on his mind, but he thought long and hard about what Kakashi said to him on the tree. Think about it. What do you think he was doign sitting there still all day. It was early afternoon when Kakashi talked to him. It was dark out when the sound 4 attacked. I honestly feel that if the sound 4 hadn't attacked him when they did, Sasuke wouldn't have gone.

[Eric]

And actually Sine, Sasuke considered the peaceful path....but like I said before Itachi showed up and messed that up. I imagine it's not something he can just put behind him...

I doubt that. Killing Itachi has always been on his mind. Hell, while he was busy being frightfully scared of Ochi during the exam, his reason for popping out of it was that if he couldn't be unafraid to fight him, he certainly couldn't kill his brother.

Revenge has been his goal from day one. Over time, he was growing to tolerate his team, even though they were both annoying to him. (Frankly, they are annoying to me, too. At least Rock Lee has some power to back up his strange personality.) But, there have been hints and comments throughout that always show that his goal is revenge.

Yeah but you find people like Superman annoying. Sasuke is calmer. ;p

[SineSwiper]

Yeah but you find people like Superman annoying. Sasuke is calmer. ;p

And Goku, and any goody-two-shoe for goodness sake. I prefer more complex characters. Naruto is more complex than a lot of characters like that, especially with his internal battles with his demon side, but his lack of intelligence just grates my nerves many times.

[Don]

Ever since about FF7 people have this misconception that a character with a messed up past is a complex character.

I suppose this is related to the fact that people also believe a complex character is actually a good character too.

[Zeus]

Many complex characters end up being just boring. You have to care about what makes them complex. Naruto's history and outcasting is OK, but it's his actions throughout the series that I like. A lot of the other characters are a lot more complex, but not quite as interesting. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Sasuke at this stage in the game, he's just irritating. He's always been about one thing (revenge with his brother) and is an outsider in his mind only. He treats everyone like an ass. But he is more complex than Naruto, just not as good.

And I agree with you on the messed-up past thing. It doesn't have to be that way, but it is easier to make people interested in a character's past if it's messed up. It's just way overdone now.

[Don]

The main character necessarily can't be very complex because the main character invariably never loses.

For example take a classic scenario, you've 5 guys on your side, the other side has 5 guys too and like all good vs evil conflicts those 5 guys are vastly more powerful than your 5 guys if you match up the characters from top to bottom. Now unless you're totally stupid or totally idealistic, you'd probably NOT match up your characters from top to bottom because the most likely outcome is that all 5 of you end up dead. So a reasonable response to this situation might be to have 2 guys as fodder and take out the guy who does matter (probably the most powerful one) and then retreat.

But this basically cannot happen if you're the main guy. He is limited to say let's fight them all straight up and we'll only need about 50 miracles/power up/comeback from death/help coming from nowhere to win, and as the main character, he gets those breaks too. And because he gets these breaks, he can't afford to have a complex personality.

[SineSwiper]

Ever since about FF7 people have this misconception that a character with a messed up past is a complex character.

I've liked complex characters before then. It has nothing to do with FF7.

But this basically cannot happen if you're the main guy. He is limited to say let's fight them all straight up and we'll only need about 50 miracles/power up/comeback from death/help coming from nowhere to win, and as the main character, he gets those breaks too. And because he gets these breaks, he can't afford to have a complex personality.

This is what I'm afraid is going to happen with this battle. Naruto is going to pull something out of his ass because he's the hero. It's not like this hasn't happened before, but at least there's some sort of reason tied behind it, or it's a case of avoiding a battle rather than fighting it head on.

[Zeus]

I'd say in this battle Naruto will not pull something out of his ass and will not even necessarily win, kinda like the Kabuto and Kimimaru fights. Remember, when he's been matched up against those clearly better AND smarter than him, he hasn't come out the victor (remember Orochimaru in the first Chuunan exam?). They'll probably have both of them do insane stuff and then some interference from someone along the way to break it up. It wouldn't be good for the series to have this fight decided now, especially if they're thinking of having Sasuke turn to the dark side.