Nintendo buys Monolith Software

[Zeus]

Yes, the guys who created the Xenosaga series

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... 9&Itemid=2

[bovine]

I've been hearing a lot of shit about how Nintendo is bad for videogaming as a whole because people buy the DS and Wii like it is going out of style, and then the games that are the most popular for these systems are games made by Nintendo. This is just an idea that I don't understand, or perhaps something I don't agree with.... I'm not sure yet. I like games made by Nintendo because they usually get those most out of their own hardware. The only really good examples of great third-part games on post-N64 Nintendo platforms are RE4, Phoenix Wright, and Trauma Centre. The problem isn't Nintendo, it's obviously either the times we are living in or possibly rap music.

So anyways, it's good to hear that Nintendo is gobbling up some good 3rd party developers so that they can hold creative control over making more good games.

[kali o.]

The problem isn't Nintendo, it's obviously either the times we are living in or possibly rap music.

lol.

And good for Nintendo, they need more meaty exclusives asap.

[Oraclops]

Is this the same Monolith that made Shogo for the PC (I KNOW you remember Shogo, Chris)?

[bovine]

Is this the same Monolith that made Shogo for the PC (I KNOW you remember Shogo, Chris)?

I still totally have that game! I got it around the time you got Halflife.... wow that seems like a long time ago. I think they're different because Xenosage was published under NamcoBandai and FEAR (another game made by monolith that made Shogo) was published by Sierra.

[Julius Seeker]

I am wondering what games they'll release for Wii and DS? I really hope this means we'll see Xenosaga Episode 1&2 over here before the end of the year. It would be interesting if they continued on with the Xenosaga story with Nintendo cash (Nintendo does plan to put additional resources into the company according to the press release) backing them, I loved the third Xenosaga game and it really left things open for a good sequel series. The whole Universe is my favourite RPG story.

[Don]

Consider Xenosaga flopped which is why it ended at part 3 instead of 6, I doubt we'll be seeing it coming back anytime soon.

[kali o.]

I'm pretty sure Namco owns Xenosaga anyway, no?

[Eric]

Consider Xenosaga flopped which is why it ended at part 3 instead of 6, I doubt we'll be seeing it coming back anytime soon.

Well Secret of Mana games keep flopping. So that leaves it open as a possibility that we'll see more of the Xenosaga universe.

[Don]

Secret of Mana line doesn't strike me as a high budget game though. Xenosaga definitely was.

[Julius Seeker]

Consider Xenosaga flopped which is why it ended at part 3 instead of 6, I doubt we'll be seeing it coming back anytime soon.

I would think the Xenoseries is the main reason for purchasing Monolith Soft. Though this remains to be seen. If they are going to ressurect the series, I would think that with Nintendo's extra resources and marketing going into the company that the Xenoseries would have a much better chance than it did before.

Namco did state last year in an interview that they were continuing the series, just not on PS2 or PS3. This led people to believe that the series would continue on the DS. Nintendo's purchase of Monolithsoft, of course, increases the liklihood of these plans, and we might see it on Wii as well.

It remains to be seen, I think we'll see an announcement in one form or another by the end of the year. Maybe as early as TGS.

No matter what the case is, there is a lot of hope that this series continues, I have enjoyed it a lot since Xenogears.

[Zeus]

Monolith Software is made up of a bunch of old Namco/Square guys. If I'm not mistaken, a few of them were involved in Chrono Trigger / Cross, including the director or some sort of head. They wouldn't be the same company that made Shogo for the PC. I think that's why they refer to themselves as Monolith Software to try and avoid the confusion...unsuccessfully aI might add.

I doubt Namco would have let the Xenosaga licence go with the company. But Namco still owns 16% and according the press release have done this in order to increase relations with Nintendo (and inject cash into the company).

Also, considering this company makes exactly what Nintendo's lacking, it can't hurt them. It's a good diversification for them. We'll see if they take advantage of it.

[Don]

Nintendo is the wrong place for a series that seems to rely on graphic firepower.

[Zeus]

Nintendo is the wrong place for a series that seems to rely on graphic firepower.

I've always been torn on the idea that RPGs rely on graphics. I really don't think they do. Sure they're nice and they made a difference in the PSX days, but since the Wii is about twice as powerful as the 'Cube, you're talking about an RPG that can look better than RE4.

IMO, after the last generation, graphics have become less of an issue and it's more about volume of enemies and gameplay now. I don't think too many RPGers would complain if you get a Xenosaga 4 that looks like RE4.

I know people rave all the time about Gears' graphics and they sure are nice in HD, but that's not really the reason the game's fun. It's the scripting of the scenarios that makes it fun. If anything, there aren't enough enemies in the game, but it's OK 'cause the scenarios and gameplay limitations are well set up to make that a non-issue.

[Julius Seeker]

Nintendo is the wrong place for a series that seems to rely on graphic firepower.

I don't think the Xenoseries has ever really relied on graphical firepower, it has always relied on plotline, characters, events, and interaction. Xenogears' graphics are technically terrible. Xenosaga was a lot better, but it was still not the major point (the first game had Dreamcast quality graphics), and cutscenes can be pre-rendered if high graphical levels are required for some of those that might be displaying a lot of objects (similar to how FF12 did it on certain scenes).

[Don]

Err, Xenosaga was obviously meant to sell on its graphics, with the whole 40 minutes cinematic stuff. Just because the graphics seems to turn out to suck anyway doesn't mean that they didn't try to rely on graphics as a selling point.

A high budget game almost invariably invests heavily on graphics. Where else would the money go to? The story writer? The voice actors? You guys should know by now that most of the money goes to the army of guys cranking out the polygons because that's the only part you can't throw talent at. If you have one great designer that's all you need for a good game system. If you have a great writer that's all you need for the story. But there's absolutely no way one artist can do all the CGs needed in today's games no matter how talented he is.

[Julius Seeker]

By that logic, every single game in existence has its main focus on graphical firepower, which is obviously not true.

The cutscenes throughout the series were mostly to convey the plotline. The major draw to the series has always been, first, Tetsuya Takahashi's epic plotline. This is the defining characteristic of the series and the sole reason for its hardcore fans.

[Don]

From wikipedia:

In recent years, the Xenosaga project has seen the removal and resignation of staff who were contributors to the game Xenogears and/or the first episode of Xenosaga. As of Episode II, scenario writer Soraya Saga was removed from the Xenosaga team. According to a column by Saga, the original draft of Episode II was drastically altered. (However, most if not all of the plot details removed from Episode II, as originally described in Soraya's FAQ, have been included in Episode III.) This information was removed from Saga's website. While Saga is not working on the series anymore, Tetsuya Takahashi continues to be involved as a scenario planner. The music composer, Yasunori Mitsuda, has also left the Xenosaga series as of Episode II. After these events, Episode III was declared to be the last primary Xenosaga episode.

Tetsuya Takahashi, Kunihiko Tanaka (character designer), and Yasunori Mitsuda have been contributors to the series since its origins. While Tanaka re-illustrated the characters for Episode II, he has since distanced himself from the project as well.

Sure's an epic story when you can just remove parts of it and then add it back in a later episode.

The whole Xenosaga story is nothing more than Emperor's New Cloth. It's a story about nothing in particular that makes people think they're intellectuals by interpreting what it isn't there. It's the video game version of an English class where you analyze something that isn't there because clearly every writer had these all encompassing, with symbolism, wordplay, and allusions that span every word of the text.

Jin Uzuki was supposed to be in the first game. That was scrapped. The series was supposed to span 6 titles, but had no problem trimming it down to 3 when the series flopped. If you actually believe the whole thing was supposed to be good and make sense at any point in time then it must follow that having large parts of the story ripped out and then reinserted later on must screw it up. It probably never made much sense to begin with which is why it can be drastically altered in the first place.

Even the original Xenogears wasn't really that great so far as story goes. It had a decent story whose enjoyment relies on knowing the way too many behind the scenes stuff that you can never possibly have known via playing the game (aka Perfect Works). Kelvena has her eyes closed all the time because bad things is supposed to happen when she opens them (she has the highest Ether rating out of Elements or something like that). That's why the Perfect Works claim but in reality she's just a fan service character who the artist thought would look cool with her eyes closed all the times, as there's absolutely nothing in the game that suggests she has any relevance beyond being one of the 4 Elements.

Megaman, when you look at the behind the scenes stuff, has some seriously cool stuff going on. The fact that behind the scenes, Dr. Light made the Sigma Virus does not change the fact that in the game itself, Sigma Virus is an absolutely trivial 'make Reploids go bad' device. Xenosaga, as a game, doesn't make sense, which is why it relies heavily on the encyclopedia thing. The encyclopedia is not a supplement or augmentation to the game's story. It IS the story. There are things you simply cannot know without reading it because it is never presented in the game. It might be the case that a game is too limiting as a medium to express whatever ideas they have had, and if so in this case they should have written a Xenosaga the book. But you can't just show a medicore, borderlining on nonsensical story and say please read section Z of the encyclopedia to see why it's supposed to make sense! The game has to stand on its own, and it does not.

[Julius Seeker]

I am not really sure how your opinion on the plotline itself is relevant to what the major draw is, graphics or plotline. Though if you do go to any messageboard or website which revolves around the series (I can give you several links if you wish), you're going to find fans discussing the plotline first and foremost, the events, the characters, etc... You aren't going to find people who say "I like Xenosaga and Xenogears because of the graphical advancements."

Anyway:

Mitsuda's Episode 1 soundtrack was just nowhere near the calibur that was expected of the series; there were large portions of the game which had no music at all. He deserves a lot of credit for Xenogears, but not Xenosaga, or any of his recent projects. Xenosaga Episode 3 was vastly superior to the first episode in terms of music (there isn't much music in Episode 1). As for Soraya Saga, I don't know much on that story except that she was reportedly very difficult to work with. She more or less had the position because she was Takahashi's (the series desisgner) wife.

I also disagree that the series was confusing. I also think you've had terrible literature profs =P

A good literature prof will not make a claim about on literature without appropriate research. For example, if all that is said about a woman by a 17th century author is that she is offering an orange to someone at the playhouse, you can be damn sure she's a prostitute; despight how ridiculous that may sound nowadays.

Why didn't Xenosaga sell millions each? The major reason was poor gameplay and bad pacing in the first episode. The first episode was terrible in how it would have a ton of story with very little to no interaction, and then go through a period of very poorly thought out dungeon crawling that lasted hours. The sequels were marketed as continuation of the story of the first game. This turned out to be a bad idea. This is why I really do hope a nice remake with proper gameplay and paciong is made, which includes Episode 1, 2, and 3 in one single game. Either that or just get past the whole space portion of the game series; in my opinion, outer-space is not a very interesting setting.

[Zeus]

Don, don't you wish they continued the PSP MM and MMX remakes? The storyline parts in MMX were excellent, especially the fully flushed-out Vile parts, and I would love to see them finish that through the series (up to MMX6 anyways)

[Julius Seeker]

Oh yeah, more, Brownie Brown was also bought out by Nintendo, they're now a first party team. Brownie Brown is mostly made up of ex-Square guys, best known here for Secret of Mana on SNES.

[Flip]

Is Secret of Mana really an achievment? I thought it was pretty terrible compared to other RPG's on the system and from Square.

[Nev]

Is Secret of Mana really an achievment? I thought it was pretty terrible compared to other RPG's on the system and from Square.

I think any RPG that is enjoyed by some people and sells reasonably can be considered an achievement. It's still a valid franchise for them - I'd buy a new installment if it was good.

[Zeus]

Is Secret of Mana really an achievment? I thought it was pretty terrible compared to other RPG's on the system and from Square.

I've often felt the same way about the series. I played the original Mana and stopped when I got to the ice world 'cause i was bored

[Don]

The problem is that the depth of Xenosaga almost entirely relies on material outside of the game (the encyclopedia). It tries to establish its own world but basically ends up with nothing make sense. When you read Zahn's trilogy and see Grand Admiral Thrawn talk about the xyz manuever it's never explained what it is, but you can easily infer from the context that it's some simple military manuever that gets the job done. Compare this to Xenosaga. At the very beginning they say Virgil has XYZ syndrone. I assume this is equivalent saying Virgil has AIDS, except you never hear the same thing ever mentioned anywhere else in the story except for, of course, the encyclopedia. At no point in the game will ever be able to infer that this means Virgil is addicted to eating Realien flesh unless you look up the corresponding entry in the encyclopedia. Lost Jerusalem is another example. There is no way to ever infer that it's Earth without looking up the know-all encyclopedia. The story's enjoyment basically relies on an equivalent of Cliff's Notes, and it's not because the story is too complex, but rather the information is simply never there.

As far as fleshing out existing content, it'd be better if the content was there in the first place. The behind the scenes stuff in MMZ is quite cool too. Too bad they're not present anywhere in the game at all. You shouldn't come up with a medicore story and say 'but see we really had these cool ideas all along! Check this out!' Your really cool idea is either in the game, or it is not.

[Julius Seeker]

Is Secret of Mana really an achievment? I thought it was pretty terrible compared to other RPG's on the system and from Square.

I agree, I don't know how to explain it, but it just didn't feel very polished in comparison to other games in the genre. It did have multiplayer, and that was fun, but there was so much about the game I found annoying. There are some fun parts, I thought the towns were well done, but the rest of the game I didn't care for at all.

[Blotus]

Jesus, Secret of Mana... been a while. I had the good fortune of playing through the whole game with a friend (and later doing it by myself) and it was immensely enjoyable as I recall. I bought a copy a few years ago since I sold my original but haven't played more than past the first boss when you fall through the ground.

[Don]

I thought Secret of Mana was quite good (on the SNES), but the latter games added absolutely nothing. It's probably not bad for a relatively low budget game (at least compared to other FF stuff) for making a few bucks. The fact new Mana games keep coming out despite criticism suggests that it is at least profitable.