Mega Man 10 officially announced

[Zeus]

Through Nintendo Power so WiiWare only confirmed for now but you can bet it'll come to the others

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6242704.ht ... tory;title

If it's as good as #9, I hope they release one every year

[Eric]

Oh great, another 8-bit Megaman, fuck progress.



Oh boy, Sheepman!

[Zeus]

Mega Man people don't want progress. MM9 outsold all of the DS games

[Julius Seeker]

Essentially any "progress" in the graphics is effectively progressing away from what is most marketable in the series.

[Don]

The DS games didn't sell well because they sucked, not because it had better graphics.

I think it's embarassing that you can find better graphics in a 'make your own whatever game' simulator than a once venerable franchise. Heck, even the cheap Megaman ripoffs in Japan look better than Megaman 10, and being a ripoff means the gameplay is the same anyway.

[Zeus]

Since when have good graphics = good gameplay? What made MM9 so good was the fact that it was a very well designed game using a very old and familiar formula. There wasn't anything new, no, but it was a very, very good version of it.

Polish and funfactor are far more important than new gameplay and pretty graphics. And MM9 was a very well-made MM platformer

[Don]

Putting a game in 8 bits graphics sure enhances gameplay.

You act like Megaman gameplay has somehow changed over the last 20 years. Just go look at some of the Japanese Megaman knockoff games. They all play exactly the same and most of them actually looks better than the stuff it's copying from. Instant kill spikes is not gameplay, but even if it is, there are plenty of those in the knockoff games.

[Mental]

Oh great, another 8-bit Megaman, fuck progress.



Oh boy, Sheepman!

Eric, I love you sexually. It is to LOL.

(...no, I don't actually love you sexually, but it still is to LOL.)

[ManaMan]

The 8-bit thing is just nostolgia. MM9 was a good game and I thought it a neat gimmic that it was how it was graphically.

That game is hard as hell BTW.

[SineSwiper]

You people are sheepmanle.

[Kupek]

Putting a game in 8 bits graphics sure enhances gameplay.

It's an effective way to immediately communicate "this is a game with old-school gameplay."

[Blotus]

Don't forget we already discussed this when MM9 came out!

[Kupek]

If we didn't rehash old discussion, we'd just sit at the kitchen table, eating our cheerios in silence.

[Zeus]

The 8-bit thing is just nostolgia. MM9 was a good game and I thought it a neat gimmic that it was how it was graphically.

That game is hard as hell BTW.

Not quite as hard as trying to play through MM3 without holding right on controller 2. Not only was that game super long it was very, very tough as well.

[Julius Seeker]

I do think Megaman 9's success when compared to previous titles is strong enough evidence to prove that this was the correct art and gameplay direction for the series. What good would a 5 million dollar art-budget be if the direction is not desired by the consumer?

[Don]

Compared to what previous titles? ZX? X games later than 5? Regular series later than 3? All those games sucked so yeah it's not surprising.

Some of us are still waiting for interesting gameplay that doesn't involve lots of instant kill spikes. I guess if instant kill spikes are your cup of tea, it'd be cheaper to get instant kill spikes for $10 instead of $50, but I'm not really too interested in how that plays out.

[Julius Seeker]

"Some" being the key word. Hey, I have absolutely no doubt that consumers exist who would prefer some other sort of Megaman game than what 9 was. If it were my dime that Capcom was spending, I would place my vote against spending needless extra dollars to make a less marketable product at the first stakeholders meeting. It only makes sense.

[Don]

Looking at the size of the video game industry now compared to before I'm sure MM9 is far less profitable than say, MM1-3.

Now I'm sure MM9 is more profitable, at least relatively, compared to most recent Megaman games. But that just means the series has been going downhill and they found a way that's slightly less downhill compared to the failures in the last say, 15 years. As a fan of the series I'm not interested in Capcom figuring out a way to suck slightly less than they did in the last 15 years, though. If they want to crank out new Megaman games like Megaman EXE games, they can do it, but there was once upon a time when Megaman was both profitable and not just a cheap filler game at the same time.

[Don]

Here's a rough history of the Megaman universe relative to their gameplay/profitability:

MM1-3 - Original game that turn out to be profitable (I'd say relative to market size they're probably the most profitable MM games not counting the EXE ones).

MM4-8 - Shameless money grab efforts that failed horribly.

MMX1-3 - Genuine attempt to upgrade the 8-bit franchise to something more modern. Didn't appear to be successful, but had good financial success (this set of games is probaby the 2nd best selling set of Megaman games in an era).

MMX4 - Attempt to revamp gameplay and everything else to the 32-bit era. Sold less than MMX1-3 but was the best selling PSX era Megaman, and probably the best selling pure Megaman game on a PSX+ era platform.

MMX5 - Supposed to be the final X game. One can argue it was a step back from X4 but it's stil decent, pretty sure it's #2 on the PSX+ era platform sales.

MMX6-8 - Shameless attempt to get more money that flopped horribly.

MMZ1-3 - Attempt to reinvent the genre but was crushed by an obselete system that has seen no innovation in 15 years, and corporate greed (having X being the bad guy was seem as detrimental to sales of EXE games). With all that said, it still managed to be respectable.

MMZ4 - A shameless money grab attempt that turned out to be surprising good even though MMZ series should've ended at Z3.

ZX - Shameless money grab attempt that flopped.

MM9 - Shameless money grab attempt that was successful.

So yes MM9 which is a successful shameless money grab ranks above many, many games in the franchise. But there are also other games that are successful that are not shameless money grabs. Z4, for example, is probably better even though it is also a shameless money grab.

[Eric]

What Don said, MM9 was a shameless money grab that appealed to people's Nostalgia.



It worked once, so they're going for it again, I will make a bold print statement:

Megaman 10 will not outsell Megaman 9 because that magical Nostalgia gimmick has worn off

And if I'm wrong I will come back here....and I will edit my statement so that it never existed and call you all liars making up quotes.

[SineSwiper]

I agree. Megaman must die.

[RentCavalier]

Fuck that, Mega Man is sweet.

[Zeus]

I agree. Megaman must die.

I don't understand the negativity towards it. What's wrong with a good, old-style 2D platformer? No one ever said MM9 wasn't a solid, well-designed platformer just that it was "too old school". Not every game has to innovate. Hell, you could say that Shadow Complex was nothing but a pretty coat of paint over Super Metroid. No real innovation just a good version of an old game.

Is it just a graphics thing that has all your panties in a knot?

[SineSwiper]

Not every game has to innovate. Hell, you could say that Shadow Complex was nothing but a pretty coat of paint over Super Metroid. No real innovation just a good version of an old game.

That's not completely true. Shadow Complex, while it did borrow heavily from Super Metroid, was still a different enough game to stand on its own.

The problem with MegaMan is that the shilling for more money is just so blatant. And while games like Super Metroid have enough complex elements to be duplicated a few times, MegaMan has been rehashed 20 times, with a VERY simplistic gameplay. Super Metroid is 20x more complex than MegaMan and 20x better.

Hell, speaking of Metroid, the Metroid Prime series is a good example of taking a old idea and making it a lot better and different. Capcom should have learned how to do something like that, but it just continues fucking that chicken.

BC:Rearmed is another example. There were enough differences in gameplay to make it better. And yes, graphics (and music) matter. A rusty Camero can do the job, but one with a good coat of paint is much better.

[Zeus]

Not every game has to innovate. Hell, you could say that Shadow Complex was nothing but a pretty coat of paint over Super Metroid. No real innovation just a good version of an old game.

That's not completely true. Shadow Complex, while it did borrow heavily from Super Metroid, was still a different enough game to stand on its own.

The problem with MegaMan is that the shilling for more money is just so blatant. And while games like Super Metroid have enough complex elements to be duplicated a few times, MegaMan has been rehashed 20 times, with a VERY simplistic gameplay. Super Metroid is 20x more complex than MegaMan and 20x better.

Hell, speaking of Metroid, the Metroid Prime series is a good example of taking a old idea and making it a lot better and different. Capcom should have learned how to do something like that, but it just continues fucking that chicken.

BC:Rearmed is another example. There were enough differences in gameplay to make it better. And yes, graphics (and music) matter. A rusty Camero can do the job, but one with a good coat of paint is much better.

Capcom tried to take Mega Man to 3D and made 3 pretty damned good games in the Legends series. No one cared. Then they created the semi-RPG series that people liked and tried to expand that beyond the handheld arena.....no one cared. They expanded on the X series on the handhelds but people only cared for so long. Yes, there was some bad games (look at MMX7 and MMX8 on the PS2) but there was some excellent ones too (see previously mentioned games). At the end of the day, people only really go back to old-school Mega Man. The series failed to evolve beyond regardless of how much they tried .

Shadow Complex is freakin' Super Metroid with a new, glossy coat of paint. Nothing more. Let's be a little realistic here, there's minute advancement in gameplay, particularly considering the time gap between them. Again, to me this ain't a bad thing (I like the game) but you slammin' MM9 or MM10 because they're "old school" while defending Shadow Complex is a little hypocritical.

BC:RA plays EXACTLY like the original, 22-year old game with the exception of some very minor gameplay editions, boss changes, and one, long level at the end. It's simply a fresh coat of paint on very old-school gameplay. You know what games it is EXACTLY like? The Capcom remakes on the PSP, in particular Mega Man Maverick Hunter X and Mega Man Powered Up. Those two games are on pretty much the same level as BC:RA and Shadow Complex in terms of technology and advancement of an old and familiar gameplay. Guess what? No one cared about those ones either even though they're easily two of the best games on the handheld (on a side note: I hope to hell Capcom realizes they can probably keep those remakes going as downloads; they were both excellent and deserve the sequels to be remade the same way). Again, why should Capcom keep trying to update Mega Man when no one buys it?

Also, I'm paying 2/3rds as much for my old Camero while you're paying the same amount for your 4-year younger Firebird with a fresh, glossy coat of paint. Sure, mine may not look as pretty with its faded paint job but it functions exactly the same as your Firebird in every way. Not only did you pay more, you don't even get the Classic Car plates on yours like I do :-)

[Don]

Megaman 9 isn't even a shiny paint of coat. In Zeus's world if you take a game and ghettoized the graphics with identical gameplay, that makes the game a better game as opposed to worse.

The Megaman gameplay is virtually identical from game to game. The addition of Zero is the only non gimmick worthwhile addition to the core gameplay. In twenty years there are exactly two memorable characters in the whole series: Zero and Omega, and technically that's really just one character.

Legends 1 did okay because it was a solid game. That's why they made a sequel to it and a spinoff. The Misadventures of Tron Bonne was a decent game but it was clear it was way too niche to expect games like that to continue.

Legends 2 returned to the old roots of a Megaman game. Sera can kill you from full health to 0 in one hit if you don't have a Kelvar Omega Vest. With it you can take two hits while she has enough life to take 15 minutes of continous buster fire so you basically have to not get hit more than twice for 15 minutes. It's almost like since you can't put instant kill spikes in a Legends game they tried to simulate that kind of gameplay. This is the classic kind of Megaman gameplay that makes you want to smash the CD and never touch the game again. Not surprisingly Legends 2 flopped pretty horribly.

The X series were on GB color I think (wasn't even GBA). So you got a port from the SNES era that was worse graphics with often identical gameplay except for 2 different things. That's a great way to draw new people to the genre or to reward long time fans with inferior ports of what they already have or could play on an emulator.

MMZ was a victim of Megaman EXE. Originally the plan was X has gone rogue so that Zero would actually have to kill him to fulfill the prophecy foretold in Megaman X4 (which was one of the last Megaman games that actually had like a plot). At the last minute Capcom higher ups decided that if X was a bad guy that may leave a negative impression to kids, since all Megamans look the same anyway. As a result you've a story that ended up making no sense, and in a series that actually attempted to bring closure to the world of Megaman, it was doomed from the start since corporate interest dictate that the world has to be open ended enough to allow sequels. Of course by then people are so fed up with the series that ZX series died a quick death since it ran out of goodwill to build on.

Perhaps it is a testment to how good Z3 was to somehow brought a reasonable closure to everything despite starting with an unworkable script. Indeed it looks like Omega will outlive the actual series in terms of relevance, because he is pure awesomeness reincaranted. Actually here you got a bizarre twist from Megaman's usual abuse of anything remotely worthy of money grabbing. You'd think Omega will just magically appear in every game after Z3 since he is perhaps the best Megaman character that ever existed, with his own fanbase that rivals that of the main character, and yet Omega actually STAYED DEAD (until ZX, by then it was too late).

Speaking of which, ZX is a rather interesting series. There is no Megaman, no X, Zero, or Omega. There isn't even a Ciel. Heck, you're supposed to pretend you don't know Priaire is Alouette, not that she ever had the kind of popularity to anchor a series (Roll, Ciel, Alia, and Iris are the only girls who ever had any kind of following in the entire Megaman universe). Harpuia is the most popular of the Guardians, and again the Guardians are never mentioned by name. It's almost like the game thinks it can stand on its own, and then quickly realized it cannot so it had to get Omega out of the closet to try to lure some Megaman fans back in, but the whole story borderlines on insulting. Actually it reads like a Wikipedia entry where blatant foreshadowing is ignored because it's technically not a fact, i.e. there is this girl that looks 99% like Alouette who refers to another super genius girl scientist known as 'Sis', who once fought along side with a legendary Reploid that uses a sword with blonde hair, but we are not very sure if they really are Zero and Ciel because you might be born yesterday too.

I think Inticreates want to show that there was more to Megaman than having Zero or pull its loyal fanbase in, and then found out rather quickly that there is nothing beyond that in a Megaman game.

[Zeus]

In Zeus's world if you take a game and ghettoized the graphics with identical gameplay, that makes the game a better game as opposed to worse.

The very fact that you would even write this means that a) you don't actually read my posts, you just pick out the parts the feed your bias and ignore everything else and b) that your personal bias overrules any points you might make and makes your posts null and void.