The Other Worlds Shrine

Your place for discussion about RPGs, gaming, music, movies, anime, computers, sports, and any other stuff we care to talk about... 

  • Final Fantasy 7

  • Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
Because playing them is not enough, we have to bitch about them daily, too. We had a Gameplay forum, but it got replaced by GameFAQs.
 #142455  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:27 pm
Well, since getting PS3, I decided to download this one and play it. I have it on disc too, but I had no PSX memory card space (I have a tendency to like to keep saves specific to certain locations in games, IE. just before Solaris in Xenogears, FF8 master save, etc...), and the game costs pennies anyway.

I am about to board the ship in Junon Harbour this is what I have to say about it:

Art:

1. Rendered background graphics, are really jumbled and confusing at times compared to later titles of similar style (most notably FF8 and 9 which are very clean in comparison). Luckily hitting select will pop up a tutorial map of the area which shows you where the exits are. Though it is still easy to miss items and stuff. Otherwise, they add much to the atmosphere of the title. The art here is very nice in many places like the slums, Kalm, Junon (lower city) and gives a very nice atmosphere to many of these places.

2. World map, full of pop-up. Essentially there were three stages in videogame development during this era that handled this sort of thing: first they left this pop up in, next they began fogging up the area, and finally began using 2D backgrounds to represent the distance and converted to polygons as the player came closer.

3. Character art is not very good, they look very poor nowadays, and don't hold up compared to many older titles. Battles look fairly good though.

4. FMV isn't smooth, it is almost as bad as the stuff they added into Chrono Trigger DS (luckily you can turn that off and view regular sprite scenes). The characters are very doll-like and lifeless looking in most scenes. This is the worst of the FF games by far, but also a first attempt so it it can be forgiven. The initial FMV opening where it flashes up above Midgar, and then smoothly transitions forward into the first gameplay scene is one of the exceptions, and is excellently done.

Audio

1. The music has moments of brilliance, but also some highly irritating tones sometimes hold for lengthy periods of time. It is really a mixed basket, and is the only FF game that has songs I really don't like listening to. It is similar sounding to FF6, and has some better stuff, but also a lot of worse stuff. One of the weaker soundtracks in the series.

2. Sound effects are nothing special, fairly standard mid-90's stuff.

Gameplay:

1. Battle system is as simple as it gets, you hold down the circle button (or X, as I switched it over to resemble mostly all post 97 games) and wait until the enemies are dead, sometimes heal and use magic. It is very unstrategic, but suitable for this game. Encounters have fairly high load times, animations in battle are higher than any other FF game.

2. Character Customization is similar to FF6 where you equip on armour, a weapon, and magic items that learn. It has shades of FF8 in it, where the user can combine materia to give weapons elemental abilities (in FF8, customization takes it higher, all stats are based on what is functioned to them, and statistical effects for all sorts of things can be added). Like FF8 as well, there are some special abilities that can be equipped (steal and such, but FF8 has many many more abilities). All in all, it is a logical center point between FF6 and FF8.

3. I already touched on my frustrations with navigation above in graphics.

4. Mini-games are very forced, and VERY annoying for the most part. They are very irritating at many times, such as forcing the character to restart the marching thing like 17 times before it finally allows the player to pass. There's also the Dolphin jump that took a lot of attempts. These were poorly thought out, and I hope removed in later versions of this game. One of the good minigames was the bike-run where you smash the enemies to the side of you with the sword.

5. Some complaints I have are that they removed auto-run from the game which was available in FF6. There are some other small complaints like that I have.


Plot:

1. Dialogue, is fairly clumsy. For example, this girl asked me if I was with he Shinra, and Barrett jumps out and yells at her "No! You got it wrong! We are fighting the Shinra!". There are also moments where the grammar is poor and plural and singular terms are mixed up, IE Aeris said something like "This are my home" fairly early on. Fo the most parrt it doesn't ruin anything, but it is VERY obvious that they'll have to rewrite 80% of the script for a remake, or the voice acting will sound retarded. There is a very notable gap in dialogue quality from 97 to 98. Xenogears, is much higher quality, and the Square games that follow it continue the trend. I notice these things because I generally like to do all the voice acting myself for those watching me play the game =)

2. Story, this is a BIG one. The game is standard Final Fantasy, completely fucked up =)

3. Setting is very cool. It has a very film noir feeling to it like a lot of FF8, and also a lot of steam-punk feeling stuff like FF6 and parts of FF8. It is one of the darkest Final Fantasy games overall; only the second half of FF6 really surpasses it significantly. I think setting is one of the strongest feature of this game.

4. Characters. You have Barrett who is a human greenpeace warmachine. Cloud who wears his hair over the left half of his face and is always sad about something. Sephiroth who is completely insane after he learns that he is a test tube baby. Aeris who wants always wants to help people with their sadness (even Rufus Shinra). Tifa who is over all my favourite character as she seems fairly level through the situations, and gets into some fucked up mischief =P

5. Also very strong are some of the scenes. They are very Dragon Questish: At one point a man complains about someone being in the washroom too long, when you open the door you find someone jacking off who yells at you to "CLOSE THE DOOR!"; You go to a gay gym to get a wig for Cloud as part of his cross dressing outfit to get into the Pimp Don Corneo's mansion so he can pick between himself, Cloud, and Aeris as the girl he wants to fuck that night - this is followed by Cloud being thrown to the lecherous thugs like a piece of meat who descend upon him before he jumps out and slaughters them. Brilliant, this sort of stuff is worthy of Oscar Wilde =P


Overall, I am enjoying this game about how much I did 12 years ago. Games like this one and the very first Final Fantasy obviously have their glaring weaknesses; but an experienced veteran can easily get around those and very much enjoy the title. I do, however, still feel this one was overrated back in the day. I would rank it around the middle in the series for the main series in terms of my own tastes. I only really disliked FF2 and the original SNES FF4 (and not completely, just because of some glaring annoyances that didn't exist in other RPGs of the time; and these were all fixed in later versions). I realize that my favourite portion of the game is over, but there are some other parts I like coming up later.

 #142458  by Mental
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:14 pm
I didn't experience the scene where Cloud is sitting around with a bunch of other dudes in a hot tub until my second playthrough. That bent my mind.

 #142460  by Blotus
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:24 pm
I played up to meeting Tifa and realized that not enough time has passed since I last played this to warrant the time investment. Graphically it has aged horribly, that's no secret, but it does benefit being shrunk down on the PSP screen. Maybe next year.

 #142469  by Zeus
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:17 pm
Julius Seeker wrote:I have it on disc too, but I had no PSX memory card space (I have a tendency to like to keep saves specific to certain locations in games, IE. just before Solaris in Xenogears, FF8 master save, etc...)
Seek, you do know that you can make a virtual memory card for the PS1 and PS2 on the PS3, right?

 #142486  by Julius Seeker
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:23 pm
Zeus wrote:Seek, you do know that you can make a virtual memory card for the PS1 and PS2 on the PS3, right?
Yeah. What else did you think I was saving it to?

I'm also aware there is a process in which you can back old PSX games to the harddrive, but I couldn't find any info on how to do that so I just bought it instead. Old PSX games are cheap as hell, 6-10 bucks.

I hope they bring out more =)

BL, I agree, the game could use a remake. There's too much good stuff to be left in the form it is currently in. Graphically it may be weak, but I don't think my opinion has changed since the game was relatively new. One thing I forgot to mention was that often the 3D characters get very small on the screen due to the fixed position on the 2D map and the deep backgrounds.

Anyway, to add. I think I may like the game a little more than I did before (kind of like FF1, FF4, and FF8 for me on later playthroughs) based around the fact that I have greater knowledge about the title than I did on those earlier playthroughs.

 #142491  by Lox
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:10 pm
I think I'd have big problems replaying that game. It's a prime candidate for a remake, IMO. I don't get why Square won't do it.

 #142492  by Mental
 Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:10 pm
I still can't get that weird-ass scene with Cloud out of my head now, damn you Seek.

It was just so...bizarre. They're talking about dating, and Cloud is having weird crazy dissociative flashes about Zack (right?), and then all of a sudden there's like four dudes (including Cloud) just sitting in a hot tub saying nothing.

I thought I'd ended up in a parallel universe when I found that shit.

 #142504  by Zeus
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:12 am
Lox wrote:I think I'd have big problems replaying that game. It's a prime candidate for a remake, IMO. I don't get why Square won't do it.
They want to milk all they can out of the original title first. Would you download FF7 on PSN if you knew there was a remake coming?

Also, it's not worth it. Pouring $20-50mil on a remake just doesn't make economic sense 'cause they don't often sell a million or more regardless of which game they are or how good the remake is. Look at Twin Snakes. That game was an awesome remake and better than the original in every way and if memory serves me right, it didn't even crack 500,000 copies sold here and substantially less than a million worldwide.

There's a reason all remakes are either downloadable or on a handheld, it's the only way to make the economics work. And you can't really fit the game on 1 UMD (you'd need at least 2, more if you up the graphics) and it's way too big to make downloadable-only. Maybe next generation you'll get a remake of it. Personally, I can't wait for them to finish the far superior SNES remakes. IMO, FF7 doesn't deserve a remake

 #142509  by Eric
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:46 am
It's like $5 on PSN isn't it?

 #142515  by Lox
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:15 am
I think an FF7 remake would sell a lot more than Twin Snakes. Most people I know who played MGS didn't even know Twin Snakes existed. With Advent Children and Crisis Core, FF7 is still pretty popular. I bet it'd sell more than you think.

 #142518  by Zeus
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:36 am
Eric wrote:It's like $5 on PSN isn't it?
$10

 #142519  by Zeus
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:37 am
Lox wrote:I think an FF7 remake would sell a lot more than Twin Snakes. Most people I know who played MGS didn't even know Twin Snakes existed. With Advent Children and Crisis Core, FF7 is still pretty popular. I bet it'd sell more than you think.
Maybe, but certainly not enough for them to warrant the budget it would cost to remake it in next-gen. Squeenix is the master of remakes, they're practically living off of them and DQ since basically every new franchise they've come up with in the last decade other than Kingdom Hearts has failed. You don't think they woulda done it by now?

 #142521  by Flip
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:05 am
I dont know if i'll ever replay FF7. I saw it on the PSN a long while ago but dont think i could struggle through a playthrough. I remember doing everything in that game, gold chocobos, beating the weapons, etc so there isnt anything left. Since the game and battles run slow i think it would be hard to enjoy. I'd probably just want to see the story again, but would also be annoyed at the mini games and stuff you have to do to progress. FF8 seemed much easier to replay, which i loved, and sadly i still never beat FF9 and cant remember why i put it down and didnt pick it back up. I wish FF9 was available for download... i need to start a new game tonight.

 #142522  by Zeus
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:10 am
Yes, do yourself a favour and play through FF9. It was freakin' incredible. It's also not that hard to find. You may be able to find it at a Gamestop for about $10-15 with the Greatest Hits label.

 #142523  by Zeus
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:11 am
Julius Seeker wrote:
Zeus wrote:Seek, you do know that you can make a virtual memory card for the PS1 and PS2 on the PS3, right?
Yeah. What else did you think I was saving it to?
Based on your quote above, it was a safe assumption that you were plugging a PSX memory card into your PS3

 #142525  by Flip
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:15 am
Zeus wrote:Yes, do yourself a favour and play through FF9. It was freakin' incredible. It's also not that hard to find. You may be able to find it at a Gamestop for about $10-15 with the Greatest Hits label.
Oh i have it, and a game save half way through, but i just lost interest and cant remember why. I def could see myself starting over and playing all the way through now, though.

 #142529  by Kupek
 Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:30 pm
A modern remake of FF7 would be just as expensive as a new FF, and there's no certainty it would sell enough to recoup the costs.

Something I didn't appreciate at the time was how inconsistent the graphics were. I took the SD characters on map, non-SD characters in battle thing in stride since they used different battle and map sprites in FF4, but the CG scenes are all over the place. That kind of inconsistency just doesn't happen now.

 #142783  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:17 pm
A remake may not be likely considering Sony (and EA I believe) had a stake in the title. I am not sure if Square would want to create this game on the dead PS2 or PSP, or the last place PS3. Of course, if they did begin development before PS3's failure became evident then who knows.


If it were my money, I wouldn't go for a full remake, more like an upgrade: a script re-write, potentially some voice acting, potentially some new music, some standard remake additions (beasiary, pedia of some sort, moogle stuff, etc..), getting rid of the map pop-up, new 3D art assets, a touch up and replacement of existing rendered 2D assets, some new characters and story arcs. No need to spend 10 million+ dollars and the hours of huge teams on some sort of a HD graphic remake.

 #142785  by Zeus
 Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:48 pm
Flip wrote:
Zeus wrote:Yes, do yourself a favour and play through FF9. It was freakin' incredible. It's also not that hard to find. You may be able to find it at a Gamestop for about $10-15 with the Greatest Hits label.
Oh i have it, and a game save half way through, but i just lost interest and cant remember why. I def could see myself starting over and playing all the way through now, though.
If you're a big fan of FF1 to FF6, FF9 is an excellent closure to the "crystal saga". It pays a lot of homage to those games (particularly #1) and is an excellent game to boot. I was a big fan of the ATE system that allowed you to see the other characters' storylines in towns that weren't necessarily related to the main one. Gave them a lot more depth.

In more ways than one, FF9 really should have been FF7.

 #142794  by Chris
 Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:58 pm
9 is actually my favorite of the final fantasy's. I just love the characters so much for the most part.

 #142806  by Julius Seeker
 Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:14 pm
9 is a fairly solid title. The only problem I had with it were overly long dungeons like the Lifa tree. There were some cool ones though (railway stuff). Treno is one of the coolest cities in the FF Universe. The Kuja arc is similar to Sephiroth's; by follwing him, you conveniently managed to travel to every city in the world. I think I like it fairly equal to 7, but less than others.

 #142822  by Mental
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:35 am
Chris wrote:9 is actually my favorite of the final fantasy's. I just love the characters so much for the most part.
9 was STRANGE.

I enjoyed it very very much. But it was definitely the weirdest of the main-line titles IMO.

 #142823  by Mental
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:36 am
Quena Crain still gives me the creeps. It was something about that bonnet. I just don't know.

 #142825  by Mental
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:37 am
I still have to call my favorite as VI...that plot has not been matched yet. And IV is not far behind.

 #142827  by SineSwiper
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:43 am
New rule: only a maximum of two repeat replies.

 #142829  by Mental
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:46 am
...

Whatever you say. I tend to have a stream-of-consciousness-effect that goes on sometimes, but I suppose it bothers some of you, and it's your site.

 #142832  by Blotus
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:34 am
SineSwiper wrote:New rule: only a maximum of two repeat replies.
Sounds good.

 #142833  by Blotus
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:34 am
Sounds great!

 #142834  by Blotus
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:35 am
I'm hungry!

 #142840  by Zeus
 Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:17 pm
Mental wrote:...

Whatever you say. I tend to have a stream-of-consciousness-effect that goes on sometimes, but I suppose it bothers some of you, and it's your site.
There is an Edit button you know......

 #142855  by Mental
 Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:22 am
Yes, but when I was admin'ing this form of the board briefly and had "see edits" turned on I discovered that the edits stick around for the admins anyway and hate the thought of looking a fool by editing something seven or twelve times and leaving that wall of text around for that mode...dunno. It was awhile ago and I may be misremembering.

I think the real pro strat for me is "collect my thoughts first before posting and then don't censor and change my mind a dozen times so I don't end up posting three times anyway in an effort to get away from that".

 #142913  by SineSwiper
 Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:25 am
Mental wrote:...

Whatever you say. I tend to have a stream-of-consciousness-effect that goes on sometimes, but I suppose it bothers some of you, and it's your site.
I do, too.

 #142914  by SineSwiper
 Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:25 am
But, I usually use the edit button to re-ajdust my comment.

 #142915  by SineSwiper
 Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:26 am
Sorry, I meant "re-adjust".

 #142916  by SineSwiper
 Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:27 am
OH! I thought of something else.

No, wait, I forgot it now. I'll post it when I think of it again.