FFX - Abusing the System (spoiler)

[Nev]

I still haven't beaten this, but I don't care about spoilers anymore, so feel free to respond with impunity.

Did others here abuse the hell out of the system as well? A friend told me about his trick, which I modified a bit and have been using to gain sphere levels very, very quicky.

After capturing one of every monster in the Thunder Plains (including the Qactaurs), one can fight the Cactaur King. I've equipped Rikku, Lulu, and Auron with Overdrive->AP weapons and set them to Comrade overdrive mode - I want to max them out first, because I have each of their Celestial Weapons at maximum power. Rikku has One MP Cost on her weapon as well, which allows her to cast Auto-Life continuously throughout the fight. Basically, every time the Cactaur King uses 99,999 Needles, which does a guaranteed 99,999 damage to the player it hits, the two characters that don't get hit gain a LOT of AP, then the third character gets revived automatically by Auto-Life. I don't know how much it is, but "fighting" the Cactaur King until he runs away usually seems to get each character anywhere from 50,000-400,000 AP. Sphere-gaining levels seem to max out at 21,000 AP or so per level.

This is without Double/Triple AP, SOS Overdrive, or Double/Triple Overdrive, which unfortunately I don't have the customizers for yet (except Double AP, but I'd rather not use up all my Megaelixirs for two Double AP weapons). Double/Triple AP obviously would double or triple it, and Double/Triple Overdrive would double or triple it again. If SOS Overdrive stacks with Double/Triple Overdrive (which I'm not sure of), a weapon with Overdrive->AP, Triple AP, Triple Overdrive, and SOS Overdrive would give an 18x modifier to the already-generous AP. That seems more or less like gaining 99 Sphere Levels (which I guess is the maximum per battle) for each, say, five minutes fighting the Cactaur King. Even if SOS Overdrive doesn't stack with Double/Triple Overdrive, that would still be a *ton* of AP.

Obviously, the Sphere Grid would get maxed out shortly afterward (and probably will fairly soon for my characters). A fun trick to abuse, certainly. Anyone else do something like this?

[Don]

It's easier to do this on Tonberry King because Everyone's Grudge should counter for 99999 every time on whoever does most of the killing in your party. You might have to win the fight for the APs to count though.

[Nev]

Don Tonberry? Or is there another Tonberry boss later?

Don Tonberry's Karma counterattack doesn't hit my characters *that* hard - hard enough to kill them, but not much more. Maybe Tidus and Wakka would get hit for high damage, but Rikku only gets hit for 11200 right now, and Auron about 32000. I suppose if someone's just slaughtered their way through the game (which I sort of thought I did) everyone might get nailed for 99999 every time...

If there's a Tonberry King, with Everyone's Grudge as a stronger version of Karma, I haven't unlocked him yet.

At any rate, it seems like that might work better with Auto-Phoenix than Auto-Life, and I don't have Auto-Phoenix equipment yet. Occasionally I still have to haul Tidus in when I'm getting abused by the Cactaur King for a quick Hastega so everyone reacts quickly enough to re-up the Auto-Life every round.

[Tortolia]

It's not really abuse of the system if you plan on doing anything with the monster ranch or the Omega Ruins.

If you're doing this so you can beat the normal game without breaking a sweat, that's potentially abuse, but it's not really needed either.

[Don]

There's a Tonberry boss in the Arena I forgot the exact name. You need to focus the killing on one guy to get hit by 99999 though.

[Nev]

Tort: I read about Nemesis, and Penance, and I've fought some of the bosses in the Arena I've managed to unlock, and yes, it seems like one might actually need to unlock the entire grid to beat some of those guys.

Don: Some people advocate using Don Tonberry instead of the Cactaur King; I think it's just a matter of preference.

Did you play the Japanese version? I'd thought Everyone's Grudge might be a transliteration of the Japanese...

[Tortolia]

Yeah, pretty much. You want to totally complete FFX, you need to do ridiculous amounts of powergaming.

Which is why I tried a little bit of ranching, killed a few of the bosses there, and put the game away. Better things to spend my time on than Square's insane powergaming antics.

[Don]

I think Tonberry's attack has been called 'Everyone's Grudge' for quite a few FFs so I go by that name. You don't get to fight Penance in the US version anyway.

It's actually pretty easy to get past the Original creations once you've 255 strength/speed. Just switch Yuna in and switch in an Aeon for cannon fodder before they get to go and you'll get about 1-2 million damage done per Aeon fodder, which is enough for everything beside Shinryu since it's a water fight so you don't get Yuna.

[Nev]

Yeah, pretty much. You want to totally complete FFX, you need to do ridiculous amounts of powergaming.

Which is why I tried a little bit of ranching, killed a few of the bosses there, and put the game away. Better things to spend my time on than Square's insane powergaming antics.

There might be something to that. It's not like there's a special cutscene as a reward or anything.

[Kupek]

There might be something to that. It's not like there's a special cutscene as a reward or anything.

Even if there was, is a 2 minute (if you're lucky) scene worth 20 hours of your time?

[Tortolia]

I fully admit downloading the perfect ending video clips for X-2, given I didn't want to blow 60+ hours of frustration for 3 minutes of footage.

[Nev]

My friend swears that (in his words) "there was no X-2", which is the phrase he uses to refer to any sequel that he feels doesn't to justice to a franchise.

What do you guys think? I like FFX, but the plot is easily the weakest part for me, and I've heard FFX-2's plot is ridiculous by a lot more people's reckoning than FFX.

[Nev]

There might be something to that. It's not like there's a special cutscene as a reward or anything.

Even if there was, is a 2 minute (if you're lucky) scene worth 20 hours of your time?

You know, I'm not quite sure. ;∫

[Tortolia]

I like X-2. I can't unequivocably recommend it.

Basically, if you can take large doses of Rikku and Yuna being goofy, you'll be fine with it. There's some interesting stuff, and some fun missions. I liked seeing how Spira ended up and running into old faces again. The gameplay was solid enough, even if some of the later classes were basically enough to completely remove the challenge from 95% of battles.

Rent X-2. You'll know in the first three or four hours if you'll be able to get through it.

[SineSwiper]

Basically, if you can take large doses of Rikku and Yuna being goofy, you'll be fine with it. There's some interesting stuff, and some fun missions. I liked seeing how Spira ended up and running into old faces again. The gameplay was solid enough, even if some of the later classes were basically enough to completely remove the challenge from 95% of battles.

I was basically trying to figure out if there was a plotline. Most of my fun was getting the dress spheres and abilities, but even that can run its course. Also, the insane amount of perfection to get the "special ending" was also annoying. Those type of "only one chance to get" antics really piss me off. Still haven't finished it.

As far as powerleveling in FFX, there was actually a good Stat Leveling FAQ for people who thought that just getting all of the spheres wasn't enough. This actually maxes out your stats by removing the lesser stat bonuses with the superior versions that you collect from creatures, etc. It also has a S. Level trick that is completely insane.

[Nev]

Isn't there something called a "Clear Sphere"? If that removes things from the Sphere Grid, one could replace them with better Spheres gotten from the highest-level monsters and etc...

Of course, considering that I'm pretty sure the bosses that DROP those Spheres are some of the toughest in the game, the wisdom of going through all of that seems a bit dubious to me.

[Nev]

I like X-2. I can't unequivocably recommend it.

Basically, if you can take large doses of Rikku and Yuna being goofy, you'll be fine with it. There's some interesting stuff, and some fun missions. I liked seeing how Spira ended up and running into old faces again. The gameplay was solid enough, even if some of the later classes were basically enough to completely remove the challenge from 95% of battles.

Rent X-2. You'll know in the first three or four hours if you'll be able to get through it.

Good call. I keep forgetting that one can actually rent games.

[Manshoon]

X-2 is a worse sequel to a game than Chrono Cross was, and that's saying a lot.

[Nev]

I loved Chrono Cross.

[SineSwiper]

Isn't there something called a "Clear Sphere"? If that removes things from the Sphere Grid, one could replace them with better Spheres gotten from the highest-level monsters and etc...

Just read the FAQ. It's on GameFAQs.

X-2 is a worse sequel to a game than Chrono Cross was, and that's saying a lot.

I really liked Chrono Cross, even if the story was confusing and backwards. The gameplay was really innovative. There are much worse sequels, even RPGs, to compare with X-2.

[Nev]

/threadjack

I didn't think the gameplay was that innovative in Chrono Cross, but the music might have sold me had it been the worst game of all time. I listen to at least one or two songs from the soundtrack just about every week. Also, I thought the art direction and animation, for the time, were amazing.

Like every other Square game I've played in the last eight years, I'd give high marks to the music, art, animation, and character design, and low marks on plot, believability, and gameplay innovation...

[Kupek]

I thought Chrono Cross was a great game, but I was disapointed with it as a sequel to Chrono Trigger. It felt more like a game that was heavily influenced by CT rather than a sequel to CT, which still made for an enjoyable experience. The music is gorgeous.

Anyway, I've done a similar thing with FFX-2 when I seared for "final fantasy" on video.google and every other entry was an AMV that featured scenes from FFX-2.

[Don]

Regarding clear spheres:

You have to be able to defeat the guys that drop the Accuracy + 4, Speed + 4, and Strength + 4 spheres to get anywhere in the Arena battle. You don't need clear spheres to get those 3 stats to 255 (and accuracy only needs to be in high 100/low 200s). Once you do that you might want to think about getting magic/magic d/physical d to 255 and that part is easy with the previous 3 stats maxed, and you probably still have room to put the +4s. You can make do with a significantly lower magic rating if you've the patience to slug it out with Jumbo Flan (only vulnerable to magic but weak attacks at least relative to 255 magic defense) for 3 hours (tip: Use doublecast reflected Flare because the animation on 2 Flares is much faster than 1 Holy or 2 Ultimas and you get more damage per time spent).

The only reason to use the clear spheres is if you want to fill in the rest with +400 HP (or was it 200? it's double the standard kind) or better yet get your Luck to 255 (which is not only difficult but utterly meanignless), but the only boss you'll ever need HP is Nemesis because nothing does more than 9999 damage on you with maxed out defense except Nemesis (plus a few random fixed damage 99999 attacks). However since Nemesis does 30000 damage to maxed out physical damage it will be a LONG time before you have enough HP to matter, and without using MP Turbo a Curaga only heals ~14K with maxed out magic so there's no real point to getting HP beyond 9999 when you can Aeon fodder your way through Nemesis. To fight him straight up would require 30K+ HP and using a full HP item every round as Curaga can't even keep up with the pace of his attacks, and there's a good chance you'll screw up and eat an Armageddon for 99999 on everyone without using the Aeon fodder method.

On Chrono Cross:

CC is a game that has ties to CT merely for the sake of having ties to CT. It really should have been a brand new game in the sense that each FF+1 is a totally unrelated game from the FF before in terms of story. They can share the same world concepts. CC's music is awesome and one of the redeeming parts of an otherwise fairly mundane game.

On FFX2:

After playing Fate: Hollow Ataraxia it somehow makes me appreciate FFX2. Like F:HA, FFX2 is a game that:

1. Has absolutely nothing consistent with the game before it
2. Has absolutely no meaning or coherency to its plot. For that matter, there probably isn't even a plot.
3. Has parts that are absolutely cool that has nothing to do with the rest of the story
4. Has an absolutely cool final battle that has absolutely nothing to do with the events leading up to it
5. Was a game developers probably worked harder on the minigames than the actual game itself

I don't think most people can justify buying FFX2 if you didn't enjoy the 'Girl's Night Out' aspect of it which consists of bulk of your gaming experience, so you might want to rent. If you didn't beat the game, go download the Thousand Words CG sequence and see if someone can show you the final battle.

[SineSwiper]

In the International version of FFX, there are Dark Aeons that make Nemesis look like one of those Piranha enemies, especially Penace. You absolutely have to have max stats. Also, you'll need Clear Spheres to LOWER one of your character's HP for the ultimate AP trick to work.

[Don]

The Dark Aeons just have the requirement of needing a high luck to hit which is a pain as Fortune and Luck spheres are both longish arena battles, and if you screw up on your 2nd Attack Reel on Greater Sphere you can always die regardless of your stats if you're going for the quick win (Attack Reel, Entrust, Attack Reel). For example in the unlosable Aeon battle you can often miss your own Aeons even with 255 accuracy because all Aeons make a check against Luck in determining to hits. Although in the international version they throw in a bigger grabbag of status effects, you also get the armor that comes with guaranteed Ribbon + Break HP limit from all Dark Aeons, some of which are easier than Nemesis which is the only source for Break HP Limit armor aside from customizing. Not to mention there is no such thing as Ribbon in the regular version.

I think Penance just has a high defense so you can't do 1 million damage rounds with Quick Hit so you can't just Aeon fodder your way to victory. If you slug it out with Nemesis, his attacks do pack quite a punch including the auto kill 99999 attack on everyone.

As for getting AP, Drive to AP, Triple AP, Triple Overdrive with damage taken on the person eating 99999 and ally damage on everyone else will provide about 50 sphere levels per use. I'm not sure how much higher 'ultimate' is but I doubt the difference is significant.

[SineSwiper]

Well, you don't need Luck, but you will need to use Aim sometimes, even with the 255 Accuracy stat.

As far as the better AP trick, it has to do with ratios. Overdrive has to do with Damage / Max HP. So, if somebody takes 9999 damage and has say, 5000 HP, that's only a ratio of 2:1. If that same person had 250 HP, that would be a ratio of 40:1. Huge difference. The FAQ uses Don Tonberry with it doing a Karma attack that at least does over 50K of damage, so it's a ratio of around 150-200 to 1 against.

Just look at section 5.5 of the Stat Maxing FAQ.

[Torgo]

Chrono Cross was a pretty good game with great music, but it was a horrible sequel to Chrono Trigger.

I liked X-2, though. I had fun up until the point where you can reach the final boss, but then I lost my memory card. I think I'll play it again someday just for the hell of it.

[Nev]

Well, after powergaming in the arena for three days straight and boosting Tidus' Strength to 170, I'm off to what will no doubt be a climactic battle with Yu-Yevon. Sounds like it ought to be *quite* challenging.

[Tortolia]

With Tidus having 170 strength? Dude, you'll sneeze on him and he'll keel over.

[Don]

The Yu Yevon fight is one of the rare fights in RPG history that actually adheres to the plan the heroes have drawn up ahead of time and is within the bounds of logic. It is by far one of the most anticlimatic battles to ever exist in the world of gaming.

And that's why it's such a great battle.

[Nev]

With Tidus having 170 strength? Dude, you'll sneeze on him and he'll keel over.

Yeah, that was pretty much how it went.

Actually, it's a little-known secret that if you fight Yu-Yevon with Tidus at 170 strength or above and have not fought him before on any of the save games on your memory card, Tidus gains the "Sneeze" command during the Yu-Yevon fight.

If you choose it, Tidus sneezes, and Yu-Yevon keels over.

[Torgo]

The Yu Yevon fight is one of the rare fights in RPG history that actually adheres to the plan the heroes have drawn up ahead of time and is within the bounds of logic. It is by far one of the most anticlimatic battles to ever exist in the world of gaming.

And that's why it's such a great battle.

I like the way you said that.