The Shrine

For you, Seek

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/833/833429p1.html

Meh...Nintendo should not be selling that much...

And I'm really interested to see how the PS3 fairs this holiday with it's new price point.

Biggest mistakes MS made in 2007:

- Not dropping their price lower that $50 a SKU when the PS3 announced their first drop.
- Releasing the Elite.

This will be the Xbox 360's peak year. It is difficult to say if the PS3 will ever overtake it for second place; though it has strong potential in Europe. At this point, with the way the market is going, it looks doubtful that either Xbox 360 or PS3 will come even close to the Wii in terms of sales.

The Xbox 360 should hit around 23-26M in its lifespan. PS3 I can see doing as high as 35 million, but as low as 18 million. Wii will hit 23 million by the fiscal year end.

kali o. wrote:- Releasing the Elite.

That was a huge mistake, because they shouldn't have HDMI capability and the overheating is actually a benefit to the system. Why fix that problem? The best business strategy is to lose money on the console by fixing a 1/3rd of the units.

kali o. wrote:And I'm really interested to see how the PS3 fairs this holiday with it's new price point.

price point shmrice point, where my games at? I will tell you the only games you should even be considering that are exclusive to the ps3:
Resistance: Fall of Man
Motorstorm
Uncharted:Drake's fortune (demo just came out today)
Ratchet and Clank: surprise, another sequel
Eye of Judgment

wow, five games(and I'd never buy eye of judgment, but it LOOKS interesting). I'm not going to argue that the Wii has a stronger lineup, but at least you can play (backwards compitability) gamecube games on it, it has TONS of old games to download on the VC, and it's still cheaper than the ps3.

360 breaks from time to time, but its library is CLEARLY the best one out there. Sony can lower the price all day, but until they get a robust lineup of good games, they are only hurting the playstation brand. Next christmas will be much more interesting.

SineSwiper wrote:

kali o. wrote:- Releasing the Elite.

That was a huge mistake, because they shouldn't have HDMI capability and the overheating is actually a benefit to the system. Why fix that problem? The best business strategy is to lose money on the console by fixing a 1/3rd of the units.

The heat issues were not fixed in the Elite. They probably are NOW, but not before it was released.

SineSwiper wrote:

kali o. wrote:- Releasing the Elite.

That was a huge mistake, because they shouldn't have HDMI capability and the overheating is actually a benefit to the system. Why fix that problem? The best business strategy is to lose money on the console by fixing a 1/3rd of the units.

Errmm, the elite didn't do anything save bring a larger stock HDD and HDMI port...both relatively useless, especially the HDMI port...even the minority with an HDMI capable reciever aren't going to find much if any improvement this gen for audio. Let's pretend it did "solve" the heat sink issue though, it still could have been addressed in a hardware revision on the premium model. It did NOT require a step into 3 SKUs (having the fucking core was an earlier mistake).

...so I have no idea what your point was supposed to be.

Nintendo only performs so well due to Sony's utter lunacy/ineptness and MS's apparent lack of desire to "win" this gen. Ya, I think MS clearly does not want to "win"...they've done alot to prove it. They've totally ignored Nintendo, EVEN when it was clear the 360 was losing steam and the Wii was not (evidenced by ZERO reactionary actions to any move Nintendo made). The only sign that they are paying attention at all is the occasional reaction to Sony - but even those moves seem half-hearted at best and only done to stay even with the insane folks at Sony (ie: the measly $50 POST-E3 drop and the elite model). I dunno, maybe the bean counters at MS have put a leash on the 360 division or something...maybe they are more interested in brand building than winning this gen. What do I know.

One, everybody and their brother wanted the HDMI port, myself included. (Some of us actually have fancy 65" 1080p HDTV and would like to use it, thank you.) It would have really sucked if I bought a next-gen console capable of HD resolution and it didn't come with a fucking HDMI port. Anything else is like taking a filet mignon, grinding it up to hamburger, and putting it on a bun with A1 sauce on it.

Two, the Elite was designed to fix the overheating issue. Yeah, it's not elegant or anything, but when they spent too much building the console, they are going to spend as little as possible to fix the problem.

I think all of the other consoles they made were mistakes. ("Oops, I didn't realize we had an overheating problem. Maybe we should have fucking beta tested this thing first!") The Elite most certainly wasn't a mistake, and it was the first good thing they did.

Nintendo is raking in shitloads of money for the same reason Apple rakes in shitloads of money: They know how to market to the majority of the populace, who happen to be the lowest common denominator.

Sine, I hate to tell you this but you're wrong-- Elite was NOT to fix the heat issue. When the Elite came out MS was still denying the problem existed, and it's been confirmed that (at least the first batch of) Elites did not have the heat issue fixed.

Elite was only this: Black console, HDMI, and 100gig hard drive.

Platinum consoles being sold now come with HDMI now too... have since August I think. Heat issues started being fixed in July or so, shortly before MS announced the warranty extension. It's noticed by a much larger heat sink ontop of your GPU (seen from the vents in the back).

HDMI was definitely needed-- Component cables just aren't enough to offer the HD needed these days.

Yer both tools if ya think HDMI is needed for any reason other than uncompressed audio (and the EVENTUAL scenario when the ICT flags are set in like 5 years for BR/HDDVD video).

Any constraint on games (ie: pretty much the minority the gen just because of sheer hardware power needed, unless you start count cut-scene only's like BD or fakers like Bioshock) for outputting 1080p content isn't coming from the lack of HDMI, it's coming from:

a) your shitty 1080p TV's lack of ability to accept 1080p over component (tough shit, you bought a low end model or an early 1080p set)

OR

Oops, that's it.

But that aside, Premium models now sport an HDMI output. It didn't need a new model to get it, just a hardware revision. The core didn't need to exist and the elite doesn't either - both just serve to confuse the consumer. If MS did everything correctly, we'd be dealing with just a $299 Premium model.

And Tess already said it, consoles with a manufacter date of 07 or 08 (I forget), 2007 have the heat sink issue solved.

Sineswiper wrote:(Some of us actually have fancy 65" 1080p HDTV and would like to use it, thank you.)

I'm 99.9% sure my 1080p 42" panny plasma outperforms your 65" beast, so you can pretty much check your sarcasm at the door if you wanna compare videophile tendancies and knowledge with me.

I'm fine with my DLP. I don't have any burn in issues or fast scaling pixilization (unlike plasma), and it only cost me $2400. (Whoo, I have to buy a bulb every 5 years. The bulbs are already going down in price, too.)

Oh, and I don't hook my Xbox 360 straight to my TV. What dumbass is going to buy a HDTV, a 5.1 surround sound system, and not have a nice A/V receiver to go with it? Everything is optimal or digital to and fro, except for my HDPC's audio (which I plan on fixing soon), and any non-HD consoles (PS2, Wii).

SineSwiper wrote:I'm fine with my DLP. I don't have any burn in issues or fast scaling pixilization (unlike plasma)

You make yourself sound silly with that one - a proper plasma won't have any of those issues unless we are time travelling back 4+ years. Top end DLPs still have a few kinks though.

That said, I was just tryin to start some shit before I go. If I was gonna go that big, I'd probably go DLP (actually, I'd go projecter but DLP is close). Grats on your fun toys bitch, see ya in a month if all goes well.

Nah, DLP is where it's at. Projector needs to have perfect lighting and all of that shit and/or one of those ultra expensive pull-down screens.

SineSwiper wrote:One, everybody and their brother wanted the HDMI port, myself included. (Some of us actually have fancy 65" 1080p HDTV and would like to use it, thank you.) It would have really sucked if I bought a next-gen console capable of HD resolution and it didn't come with a fucking HDMI port. Anything else is like taking a filet mignon, grinding it up to hamburger, and putting it on a bun with A1 sauce on it.

Two, the Elite was designed to fix the overheating issue. Yeah, it's not elegant or anything, but when they spent too much building the console, they are going to spend as little as possible to fix the problem.

I think all of the other consoles they made were mistakes. ("Oops, I didn't realize we had an overheating problem. Maybe we should have fucking beta tested this thing first!") The Elite most certainly wasn't a mistake, and it was the first good thing they did.

Nintendo is raking in shitloads of money for the same reason Apple rakes in shitloads of money: They know how to market to the majority of the populace, who happen to be the lowest common denominator.

And how many 360 games actually output in 1080p? Just 'cause you gots the port don't mean you gots the output from the game. I have a measly 42" LG with 1024x768 and can ONLY output a pathetic 1080i. Yeah, I'm hurtin.......

The Elite was Microshaft's way of sucking even more money out of its potential consumer base by introducing useless features that will hardly ever be noticeable not to mention useful. 1080p just flat-out does not matter with this generation of consoles unless you're using them to watch movies. And even then, 1080i vs 1080p really isn't enough of a different to spend any significant money ($100 extra on the system up here) on IMO.

I have a Premium, I've never had overheating issues. The issue I had was with the port to connect the HDD to the system. Once that was fixed I've never had an issue with my 360. Besides, they come with 1 year comprehensive and 3 year "red lights of death" warranties now, no issue.

Our society is based on lowest common denominator in basically every aspect in life. Why should video games or electronic gadgets be any different?

SineSwiper wrote:I'm fine with my DLP. I don't have any burn in issues or fast scaling pixilization (unlike plasma), and it only cost me $2400. (Whoo, I have to buy a bulb every 5 years. The bulbs are already going down in price, too.)

Oh, and I don't hook my Xbox 360 straight to my TV. What dumbass is going to buy a HDTV, a 5.1 surround sound system, and not have a nice A/V receiver to go with it? Everything is optimal or digital to and fro, except for my HDPC's audio (which I plan on fixing soon), and any non-HD consoles (PS2, Wii).

You can actually plug an optical cable from the 360's component cables right to your receiver.

I'm pretty sure all 360 games released in the last six months can be 1080p.

I'm relatively certain Bioshock only supports 1080i, but I can't find proof one way or the other

Besides, the 360 really isn't capable of running full 1080p at 30 or 60 frames a second for an entire game, particularly action-heavy games where there is constant movement and changes in the textures. Even at my 1080i (I've heard it may only run in 720p but that's just fan blabber) it slows down when there's tons of action going on.

Anything you get even at 1080i will be upconverted and not true 1080 resolution anyways, that's just the way the system works from what I've heard

Zeus wrote:I'm relatively certain Bioshock only supports 1080i, but I can't find proof one way or the other

I just looked at the box. It's 1080p.

Zeus wrote:Besides, the 360 really isn't capable of running full 1080p at 30 or 60 frames a second for an entire game, particularly action-heavy games where there is constant movement and changes in the textures. Even at my 1080i (I've heard it may only run in 720p but that's just fan blabber) it slows down when there's tons of action going on.

Who the hell told you this? Your games slow down in 1080i? Huh...

Black Lotus wrote:

Zeus wrote:I'm relatively certain Bioshock only supports 1080i, but I can't find proof one way or the other

I just looked at the box. It's 1080p.

Zeus wrote:Besides, the 360 really isn't capable of running full 1080p at 30 or 60 frames a second for an entire game, particularly action-heavy games where there is constant movement and changes in the textures. Even at my 1080i (I've heard it may only run in 720p but that's just fan blabber) it slows down when there's tons of action going on.

Who the hell told you this? Your games slow down in 1080i? Huh...

Yeah, when you have a few enemies on the screen at once who are close to you and you're trying to run from them you will get some slow down here and there. It's nothing horrible but it does happen

I was talking with my bud who's been fiddlin' with XNA about it. I don't know the technicalities but that what he was sayin'. I guess that's why Halo doesn't run in true 1080 resolution (there's articles at Gamespot and 1up about that). I'm an accountant not a programmer so I can't give the details on it, you'd have to ask Sine

Never once remembered any sort of slowdown on the console for BioShock whatsoever. BTW, plenty of games play in 1080p. Hell, I could even put in the Simpson's and it's probably 1080p.

Zeus wrote:I was talking with my bud who's been fiddlin' with XNA about it. I don't know the technicalities but that what he was sayin'. I guess that's why Halo doesn't run in true 1080 resolution (there's articles at Gamespot and 1up about that). I'm an accountant not a programmer so I can't give the details on it, you'd have to ask Sine

The articles I've seen on Google say that they've switched to 1080p.

Black Lotus wrote:I'm pretty sure all 360 games released in the last six months can be 1080p.

Actually you tarts, like I alluded to earlier, most games claiming 1080p output on the box generally fake it in a variety of ways (ie: cheating = certain portions only, supports 1080p signal output but outputs lower res, etc).

PS - Hong Kong is ghey. "Copy watch, copy watch!!"...ugh...

kali o. wrote:Actually you tarts, like I alluded to earlier, most games claiming 1080p output on the box generally fake it in a variety of ways (ie: cheating = certain portions only, supports 1080p signal output but outputs lower res, etc).

Yep. The 360 can output 1080p, but it just up-converts whatever signal the game supplies, and I don't know that any 360 games out actually do 1080p native. Halo 3 outputs at only 640p, for example.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:Halo 3 outputs at only 640p, for example.

Goddammit, do you guys even read my post? I said that is no longer the case. They changed it to work in 1080p before release.

According to Bungie, Halo 3 renders scenes with 640 pixels, outputs at 720p, and can upscale to 1080p. When I googled "halo 3 1080p", all of the articles were from April.

SineSwiper wrote:Goddammit, do you guys even read my post? I said that is no longer the case. They changed it to work in 1080p before release.

No, they didn't. Halo 3's vertical resolution is 640 pixels, like Kupek says. The 360 is able to up-convert it to 1080p, but it is, basically, faking it.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:Goddammit, do you guys even read my post? I said that is no longer the case. They changed it to work in 1080p before release.

No, they didn't. Halo 3's vertical resolution is 640 pixels, like Kupek says. The 360 is able to up-convert it to 1080p, but it is, basically, faking it.

There was an article at Gamespot a few days after the release of the game that has Bungie talking about it. Too lazy to look

Halo 3 - 1080p on Xbox 360 Elite (via scaler & HDMI)

According to this article, the Elite scales it up to 1080p, but it isn't the native resolution for the game.