The Shrine

Lock me up (I'm sure many of you would like to), I buy the vast majority of my games used

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... 2&Itemid=2

Edit: this guy is delusional if he thinks that used games are keeping new game prices high. Also, as a retailer, you simply can't survive on the profits you get from new games. You barely make 10% on new games, 1% on hardware. You don't sell used, you don't survive.

Also, EB/Gamestop, at least up here, does not give cash for used stuff. So you HAVE to spend it on what's in there store which is what.....games. Sure some used but also lots new. He's done about as much research as Seek does on non-Nintendo stuff :-)

The Article wrote:The publishers are using technology and the purchasing trends that underpin them, to fight back against a system that is grossly unfair to their businesses. It will take many years. But it will take.

In the meantime, retailers and consumers will collude to deny revenues to publishers and developers of which they, rightfully, deserve a share.

What a bunch of bullshit. Developers make money by selling their games to publishers; publishers make money by selling their games to retailers, and retailers to consumers. The developers and publishers are no more entitled to retail earnings, than retailers entitled to monies paid to the developers by publishers.

Publishers and developers don't have a god-given right to earnings in perpetuity beyond efforts they themselves make. If they want to make money out of selling games to consumers, they need to sell the fuckin' things to consumers their own damned selves (See: Blizzard, Valve, Live Arcade, etc.).

One more point:

The Article wrote:Legally, there’s little room for manoeuvre. The First Sale Doctrine protects resellers from shifting copyrighted content – which is why it’s okay to buy second-hand books or records. Games are seen in the same way by the law, even though games are different.

And how are games different?

The Article wrote:Unlike books and other media, games have a short life in the hands of consumers.

Again: what a bunch of bullshit. This is a qualitative difference only; to solve this problem, all publishers and developers need to do is produce games that people want to hold on to. What a fucking concept!

This was a really disappointing article, considering its source.

I think the point that used-game sales probably do cut into new-game sales is valid, and equally that that money then doesn't go back into the industry itself. But my reaction is tough shit. That's just the reality of our market. The article's author, though, is clearly intimating that this situation is wrong and should be remedied, although he never indicates how.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote: And how are games different?

The Article wrote:Unlike books and other media, games have a short life in the hands of consumers.

Again: what a bunch of bullshit. This is a qualitative difference only; to solve this problem, all publishers and developers need to do is produce games that people want to hold on to. What a fucking concept!

Don't books and other media have the SAME short life? Not too many people re-read books or even re-watch movies (although many do, I'm saying the majority of peoples' DVD collections and libraries haven't been used often. That's so... stupid to draw a comparison when it disproves your point.

Kupek wrote:I think the point that used-game sales probably do cut into new-game sales is valid...

I don't know that it is. I think to argue that a used game sold is a new game not sold is to oversimplify. Removing used game sales at retail would I think have a negative impact on new game sales — but this is the kind of thing that requires serious honest-to-god economic research, rather than the kind of theoretical postulating we're doing right now.

Kupek wrote:...and equally that that money then doesn't go back into the industry itself.

I dunno, I'd include retailers as being part of the games industry — game-specific ones like EB, anyway, and they're the only ones that actually sell used games.

Tessian wrote:

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote: And how are games different?

The Article wrote:Unlike books and other media, games have a short life in the hands of consumers.

Again: what a bunch of bullshit. This is a qualitative difference only; to solve this problem, all publishers and developers need to do is produce games that people want to hold on to. What a fucking concept!

Don't books and other media have the SAME short life? Not too many people re-read books or even re-watch movies (although many do, I'm saying the majority of peoples' DVD collections and libraries haven't been used often. That's so... stupid to draw a comparison when it disproves your point.

Maybe we just live in the boonies called Canada, but used bookstores do very, very well in my city. I get tons of books used or when I go to the US since one thing that has never adjusted the prices due to the stronger dollar is books

Zeus wrote:
Maybe we just live in the boonies called Canada, but used bookstores do very, very well in my city. I get tons of books used or when I go to the US since one thing that has never adjusted the prices due to the stronger dollar is books

Yikes, where have you been shopping? Books are way more expensive than ever, in my opinion. Paperback, especially with the new trend to print them on taller narrower paper, book are up to around 8 or 9 bucks, which is ridiculous!

There's nothing wrong with saying used game are taking away potential sales from possible new sales. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that until they pass a law that says you can't resell stuff, which I heard they got something like it in Japan, but until we got one here it does not matter.

Flip wrote:

Zeus wrote:
Maybe we just live in the boonies called Canada, but used bookstores do very, very well in my city. I get tons of books used or when I go to the US since one thing that has never adjusted the prices due to the stronger dollar is books

Yikes, where have you been shopping? Books are way more expensive than ever, in my opinion. Paperback, especially with the new trend to print them on taller narrower paper, book are up to around 8 or 9 bucks, which is ridiculous!

Take a look at the Canadian price of those sometime. We're about even in our currency but there's still the 20-30% difference in price

My original point still stands: used books are pretty big up here, not sure where people get the idea that it's a dead market

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:I don't know that it is. I think to argue that a used game sold is a new game not sold is to oversimplify.

Clearly that is disingenuous, and is the same logic the RIAA and BSA use about piracy. But when a $45 used-but-recent game is placed next to a $50 new copy, I think that's a clear case of used games gouging new game sales. I also do think this is outside of the industry as I define it. That money doesn't go to fund new projects, nor does it help the official sales of the game. But dem's da breaks, and I don't think it's necessary to make special exceptions for this industry. (And I think it's potentially dangerous and probably harmful to the consumer.)

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:but this is the kind of thing that requires serious honest-to-god economic research, rather than the kind of theoretical postulating we're doing right now.

Oh, of course, but then what would we have to talk about?

I see the $45 used for a $50 new price as the idiot retailer attempting to gouge the consumer. I mean, why WOULDN'T you pay the extra $5 for new? There's almost no reason not to. Particularly at EB you can easily justify the extra $5 just on the condition of the packaging and their INSANE stickers. If a used game ain't at least 20% cheaper than new it's just ain't worth it...and that's for games that have been out for less than a month.

No, this isn't imping, this is Zeus actually saying it's worth it to spend the little extra...

As far as reasearch is concerned, I can tell you from my experiences as a store owner and from what I see on a weekly basis at a smaller shop and EB that I don't think there's a huge amount of cannibalization going on. There's only so much people have to spend on gaming, eliminating used would likely decrease the number of games purchased overall (but more new). Also, eliminating the trade-in would really hurt new game sales IMO. There's TONS of that going on. In some cases you get trade-in for cash but the majority I see is towards other games, new and used

I opt for the new one at $50, but I imagine that enough people don't that it eats into the sales of new copies. I have no data, of course, and I'm pointing this out as a specific instance. I don't think used game sales in general cannibalize new game sales.

If you go to a place like Gamestop they're clearly more interested in selling the used game then the new ones, probably because they make more money on used game sales. So it clearly does affect the sale of new games, but unless they pass a law to forbid this, it doesn't particularly bother me.

Kupek wrote:I opt for the new one at $50, but I imagine that enough people don't that it eats into the sales of new copies. I have no data, of course, and I'm pointing this out as a specific instance. I don't think used game sales in general cannibalize new game sales.

They do, no doubt, but not NEARLY as much as this guy's making it out to be.