Time to separate the men from the boys

[Zeus]

Ikaruga is coming out for XBLA on Wednesday

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/864/864835p1.html

[Eric]

Cookie to everyone who manages to beat this insane game.

[Zeus]

I got to level 5 on the DC version. I found it a bit harder than Radiant Silvergun, which I beat after MUCH trying. Gotta pick it back up, it's freakin' amazing

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

Oh fuck yes!

[SineSwiper]

For that matter, why not just port Radiant Silvergun to XBLA? I spent a lot of coin for Ikaruga for the GameCube, and I was highly disappointed. The mechanics were very simple, and I played better on XBLA, anyway.

On the other hand, from what I've read, Radiant Silvergun is a more complex (read: better) shooter and is a complete opposite of Ikaruga's minimalism. But, I've yet to have a chance to play that one.

[Zeus]

For that matter, why not just port Radiant Silvergun to XBLA? I spent a lot of coin for Ikaruga for the GameCube, and I was highly disappointed. The mechanics were very simple, and I played better on XBLA, anyway.

On the other hand, from what I've read, Radiant Silvergun is a more complex (read: better) shooter and is a complete opposite of Ikaruga's minimalism. But, I've yet to have a chance to play that one.

Radiant is better, yes, but the level design and brilliant use of the light/dark in Ikaruga makes it the second best shooter I've ever played aside from its spiritual predecessor. It's amazing how they use it even throughout the levels. And the game's FUCKING HARD.

There's layers to the game, it's a fuck-lot deeper than it looks, particularly when you start getting into the chains. You can get INSANE scores that way.

Those two shooters are really a step above all others IMO

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

more complex (read: better)

This is your brain on Perl.

[SineSwiper]

Man, don't even drag Perl into this argument. I'm just saying that I like shooters like Gradius 3, where you have a ton of options for configuring your ship, or in RS, a ton of weapons to start with.

[Kupek]

Yes, it was an uncalled for, inappropriate cheap shot with little relevance to the conversation. But it was also very, very funny.

[Chris]

I'll stick t m snes and un squadron for now when I want shmuppy goodness. and ikky crammed in ol' dreamy.....although damn......acheivements are so tempting.....but not tempting enough to buy a game I've got twice.....or are they....I'm just not sure......

[Zeus]

I'll stick t m snes and un squadron for now when I want shmuppy goodness. and ikky crammed in ol' dreamy.....although damn......acheivements are so tempting.....but not tempting enough to buy a game I've got twice.....or are they....I'm just not sure......

Achievements, no, but online co-op? If Live was free I might purchase it just for that.

[Tessian]

I tried the demo today... pretty interesting. I love the polarity thing cause it's something so simple that can become so difficult. I beat level 1 in 3 tries (1st try didn't know how to play) but I don't think I'm going to pay 800pts for it.

[Zeus]

I tried the demo today... pretty interesting. I love the polarity thing cause it's something so simple that can become so difficult. I beat level 1 in 3 tries (1st try didn't know how to play) but I don't think I'm going to pay 800pts for it.

Level 1 is easy as pie. It's just the warmup. You'll be curled up in the fetal position cryin' like a school girl and lickin' your palms after giving Level 2 a try....and there are three levels more difficult than that one. You should see the opening of Level 5, it's fucking insane

[SineSwiper]

So, the game is only 5 levels? Lame!

[Andrew, Killer Bee]

So, the game is only 5 levels? Lame!

Oh God, this is even more clownish than your Wire diss.

[Zeus]

So, the game is only 5 levels? Lame!

Beat it then come and tell me that. They ain't exactly tiny, easy-breezy levels.

[Don]

Does Ikaruga have unlimited continues? I hate games that don't seem to offer any possibilty of being beaten by mere mortals. I think the fact that you beat the game with a F-- rating alone should be enough, like how the MMZ series work.

[Zeus]

Does Ikaruga have unlimited continues? I hate games that don't seem to offer any possibilty of being beaten by mere mortals. I think the fact that you beat the game with a F-- rating alone should be enough, like how the MMZ series work.

You earn the extra continues through playing......and dyin' often :-)

[Don]

So it's like Gradius V? I thought that was pretty dumb you've to play for 20 hours before they give you unlimited continues.

[Imakeholesinu]

Xbox is for .....stupid people.

[SineSwiper]

Beat it then come and tell me that. They ain't exactly tiny, easy-breezy levels.

Exactly my point. Instead of using content and playability to add to the game, they increase the difficulty to insane levels and everybody proclaims it genius. It's like those RPGs that advertise 50 playing hours because they add useless fetch quests, boring puzzles, and a ton of random battles just to increase the amount of time needed to finish it.

[RentCavalier]

Beat it then come and tell me that. They ain't exactly tiny, easy-breezy levels.

Exactly my point. Instead of using content and playability to add to the game, they increase the difficulty to insane levels and everybody proclaims it genius. It's like those RPGs that advertise 50 playing hours because they add useless fetch quests, boring puzzles, and a ton of random battles just to increase the amount of time needed to finish it.

You say that...but I thought you hadn't played the game?

[bovine]

Beat it then come and tell me that. They ain't exactly tiny, easy-breezy levels.

Exactly my point. Instead of using content and playability to add to the game, they increase the difficulty to insane levels and everybody proclaims it genius. It's like those RPGs that advertise 50 playing hours because they add useless fetch quests, boring puzzles, and a ton of random battles just to increase the amount of time needed to finish it.

Normally I would agree with you, but games like Everyday Shooter (I haven't played ikaruga, sorry team) have since changed my mind. I can't beat everyday shooter, but I love going back to it to see if I can get any farther. The amazing art style and music (it kind of has lumines and chibi robo-like sound effect music) were the initial draw to the game, but the challenge keeps me coming back. I get bored with RPGs easily, but not so far with Everyday Shooter.

[Don]

You don't have to play the game to understand that taking a large amount of time to get unlimited continues on a game that is clearly not meant to be beaten by mere mortals is a bad idea. I got tired with Gradius V after about 3 hours when I realized I have to die pointlessly for another 17 hours before I have a shot at actually beating the game. Everyone knows these psycho shooters, like the Megamans of the gaming world, only exist for bragging rights. The fact that you started with unlimited continues does absolutely nothing so far as bragging rights go. Consider the game even ranks you on how well you do, if you had unlimited continues you'd beat Ikaruga and it'd tell you your rating was F-- or possibly something lower compared to the shooter god who scored a S++. If the game was actually good you might be compelled to work your way up from a F-- to a S++. If not I'd rather be able to beat the game in 3 hours rather than dying at level 2 for 15 hours to unlock unlimited continues before it's realistically beatable.

Similarly having limited lives on Megaman Zero series is dumb because at the end the game merciless pummels you into submission by informing that you have a codename of sluggish loser while your Megaman hardcore guy can beat the game with the rank of a Legend. Challenge is fine, but that's what a ranking system is for. You should be able to wimp out and be able to beat anything in a relatively short time if you've no interest in mastering the game.

Sure there's probably some sense of accomplishment when after your 50th try on Gradius 3 you manage to do everything perfectly and beat the game. But more than likely people are just going to decide it was stupid to pointlessly die and never beat the game.

I'm all for say making a Megaman game that features an important entity (Omega Zero or X) that's nearly impossible to beat. But you should be allowed to take a 'wimp out' path. In MMZ series that'd be just using every cyber elves you have that do stuff like quadruple your life points, reduce enemy life point by half, and all sorts of other things. For using all this stuff that game reminds you via its ranking system that you utterly suck, but at least you'll be able to beat the game. If the gameplay is actually good, then you can try to get better at these impossible things on your own. If not, at least you'd be done with it and see what happens when you do win.

[Zeus]

Beat it then come and tell me that. They ain't exactly tiny, easy-breezy levels.

Exactly my point. Instead of using content and playability to add to the game, they increase the difficulty to insane levels and everybody proclaims it genius. It's like those RPGs that advertise 50 playing hours because they add useless fetch quests, boring puzzles, and a ton of random battles just to increase the amount of time needed to finish it.

When a game makes you want to go back and play it even through its insane difficulty, it's a great game. It's almost like an action puzzler in parts as you try to figure out how to get through sections of levels. Engenious design.

Besides, it's hard to find a shooter with more than 8 levels. The original Gradius had 6 and I'm pretty sure 3 only had about that many too. Even Mars Matrix only had 5 and Radiant only had 6. Dragon Spirit I think was 6 so was Legendary Wings. 1942 and 1943 only 5 each if I remember correctly. Einhander was only about 5. G.Darius had more but if I recall correctly, many were copies with slight variations. Hell, Rez only has 6 levels.

Shooters have always been like that. It's Radiant and Ikaruga that add an extra layer of depth with their combo system and the weapon level-up and colour systems, respectively, coupled with amazing design that sets them above the others.