The Shrine

Absolutely his best episode yet.

Yes, quite funny.

A bit unneccessary. I think he's just goading now because he has nothing worth reviewing.

Well, of all the games that he reviewed, I'd imagine that he would get the most flak from SSBB. And really, the point he has are probably valid. I admit that I haven't played the game myself, but it really comes off as a huge mashfest, and I do hate that aspect of fighters, Guitar Hero, etc. where you have to play SINGLE player to be able to unlock characters for your MULTI player game.

SineSwiper wrote:I admit that I haven't played the game myself, but it really comes off as a huge mashfest...

At least you're admitting it now. That's progress.

I personally disagree with Yahtzee's opinion on the game, but the reasons he has for disliking it are, more or less, valid.

It did spur me to post a counterpoint to Yahtzee (and, actually, a majority of other game reviewers) on the Escapist's boards.

Here's a link, if ya'll care.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.58959

All fighters can be played as button mashers if you want to play them that way.

As for unlocking characters in single player mode for multiplayer, for games with unlockables, it's convention; but I understand such complaints, but I personally don't agree that players should have access to unlockables just because it's a different game mode.

All fighters can be played as button mashers, but the question is whether or not it's an effective strategy.

Kupek wrote:All fighters can be played as button mashers, but the question is whether or not it's an effective strategy.

It's fairly effective in most after the early 90's, mostly because there are so many moves to do and button mashing you'll always get lucky. No matter how much fighting game fans try to defend against that point, it's the truth. Even in Soul Calibur (the most acclaimed fighter) you can get by on high difficulties with button mashing. In fact, in Soul Calibur it's easy considering how smooth effective they designed the moves in that game.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:I admit that I haven't played the game myself, but it really comes off as a huge mashfest...

At least you're admitting it now. That's progress.

Yet he and any crazy fighting game nut still don't understand the subtleties behind that fighting system. A skilled player will demolish a masher

Dutch wrote:Even in Soul Calibur (the most acclaimed fighter) you can get by on high difficulties with button mashing. In fact, in Soul Calibur it's easy considering how smooth effective they designed the moves in that game.

Higher difficulties? Sure. Against human opponents who know anything about the game? No.

His pet analogy for the consoles had me laughing pretty hard. Specifically, the 360.

Andrew, Killer Bee wrote:

Dutch wrote:Even in Soul Calibur (the most acclaimed fighter) you can get by on high difficulties with button mashing. In fact, in Soul Calibur it's easy considering how smooth effective they designed the moves in that game.

Higher difficulties? Sure. Against human opponents who know anything about the game? No.

I would say that you need to be an expert to be able to have a significant advantage against relentless button mashers. Only experts in the game have required me to bring out Taki/Cervantes/Ivy (characters I'm an expert on) in order to win; people who could be classified as even very good players don't stand much of a chance.

If you're an expert, you'll win every time, but it really takes a lot of practice to get the controls, moves, and timing down to the point where they feel intuitive.

Dutch wrote:I would say that you need to be an expert to be able to have a significant advantage against relentless button mashers. Only experts in the game have required me to bring out Taki/Cervantes/Ivy (characters I'm an expert on) in order to win; people who could be classified as even very good players don't stand much of a chance.

I'd disagree. I'm a slightly above-average player and I can fairly disassemble a button-masher in any Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, or Virtua Fighter game.

I'll give you Tekken, though. I find it particularly to be a game of extremes—you need to memorise the 12-hit combos in order to beat a dedicated button-masher.

A button masher will hit you once. As far as they're concerned that's a victory in itself lol.

Okay, we've all established that many fighters have button mashing abilities (except VF; I dare you to button mash a SPoD). However, the real question: Is SSBB a button mashing game, where there isn't any strategy involved that could beat button mashing?

SineSwiper wrote:However, the real question: Is SSBB a button mashing game, where there isn't any strategy involved that could beat button mashing?

The answer to that question is no. People play Smash Brothers in tournaments. If it wasn't skill-based the winners would be random.

SineSwiper wrote:Okay, we've all established that many fighters have button mashing abilities (except VF; I dare you to button mash a SPoD). However, the real question: Is SSBB a button mashing game, where there isn't any strategy involved that could beat button mashing?

In my experience, It's a game that requires the player to take the environment into account; timing is quite important. It possesses a lot of platforming elements as well as basic fighting elements. It's a fairly easy game to learn (but surprisingly difficult to master; ie easy to get good, very difficult to become great) and most of the diversity in attack revolves around the different sort of items and power-ups a player can get. It flows very intuitively to your average gamer as opposed to a lot of fighters which require a lot of practice before it feels that way without just button mashing. Button mashing in Smash Brothers is generally counter productive; in a similar way as it is in games like early Street Fighter 2 and Castlevania or Kirby games.

SineSwiper wrote:Okay, we've all established that many fighters have button mashing abilities (except VF; I dare you to button mash a SPoD). However, the real question: Is SSBB a button mashing game, where there isn't any strategy involved that could beat button mashing?

Not at all. That's the beauty of the game, it's simplistic controls and active levels makes it APPEAR to be a button masher a-la Killer Instinct, but it's not. Try playin' it against the computer at Level 9 or against someone who knows what they're doing. Like any good fighter you need precise timing, the use of your block/dodge on a skillful level, and you need to use the right moves at the right time to increase your chances of winning.

Now, I'm not sayin' it's on the level of Virtua Fighter - the most skill-based fighter out there - but it's certainly not a KI-style masher.

Dutch wrote:most of the diversity in attack revolves around the different sort of items and power-ups a player can get.

Sounds like a fighter with a ton of luck involved in winning games. Not sure if I agree with that.

SineSwiper wrote:

Dutch wrote:most of the diversity in attack revolves around the different sort of items and power-ups a player can get.

Sounds like a fighter with a ton of luck involved in winning games. Not sure if I agree with that.

Not any more than the majority of multiplayer games. Power-ups/items exist in many of them. Smash isn't a pure fighter either.

SineSwiper wrote:

Dutch wrote:most of the diversity in attack revolves around the different sort of items and power-ups a player can get.

Sounds like a fighter with a ton of luck involved in winning games. Not sure if I agree with that.

There is a strong element of randomness in the game for sure, but the skilled player will still win 95% of the time. The luck only comes in if you have equally-skilled players.

Zeus wrote:

SineSwiper wrote:

Dutch wrote:most of the diversity in attack revolves around the different sort of items and power-ups a player can get.

Sounds like a fighter with a ton of luck involved in winning games. Not sure if I agree with that.

There is a strong element of randomness in the game for sure, but the skilled player will still win 95% of the time. The luck only comes in if you have equally-skilled players.

It depends on rules sets too (for starters, timed vs stacked makes a HUGE difference). Brawl is highly customizeable, vastly more so than any other fighting game I have ever played; in fact, I can't even think of any other multiplayer game which gives as many options.

Dutch wrote: in fact, I can't even think of any other multiplayer game which gives as many options.

I'd bet Halo 3 has it beat.

Black Lotus wrote:

Dutch wrote: in fact, I can't even think of any other multiplayer game which gives as many options.

I'd bet Halo 3 has it beat.

It would be tight. SSMBB is disgustingly customizable like Halo

Except, unlike Halo, SSBB doesn't suck.

BAM! Still got it!

RentCavalier wrote:BAM! Still got it!

well, you've certainly got something.

Oracle wrote:His pet analogy for the consoles had me laughing pretty hard. Specifically, the 360.

LOVED that! Hahaha.

Rentcavalier wrote:BAM! Still got it!

Weak, Very weak... even keeping in mind that you're probably busy studying for your College Prep English final this week that is weak.

bovine wrote:

RentCavalier wrote:BAM! Still got it!

well, you've certainly got something.

I know what it's not.....Class...

2 in the what? wrote:

bovine wrote:

RentCavalier wrote:BAM! Still got it!

well, you've certainly got something.

I know what it's not.....Class...

Says the man with the pink background.

Imakeholesinu wrote:

2 in the what? wrote:

bovine wrote: well, you've certainly got something.

I know what it's not.....Class...

Says the man with the pink background.

when have I ever said otherwise?

Imakeholesinu wrote:

2 in the what? wrote:

bovine wrote: well, you've certainly got something.

I know what it's not.....Class...

Says the man with the pink background.

He can spot his own kind a mile away