The Shrine

I think it's more the Top 10 soundtracks they've heard

http://music.ign.com/articles/914/914017p1.html

They fail if Phoenix Wright isn't on this list, clicking.

Yep, fail.

Eric wrote:They fail if Phoenix Wright isn't on this list, clicking.

Yep, fail.

What? That's stupid.

That being said, this is one of the DUMBEST top 10 lists I have EVER seen! Nothing in that list really belongs in there. Things that should have been on the list, in alphabetical order:

Bionic Commando Rearmed*
Chrono Trigger: Brink of Time* (or CT itself)
Chrono Cross*
Castlevania: SotN*
Final Fantasy Tactics*
Half-Life 2
Katamari Damacy
Legend of Mana
Legend of Zelda: Sound and Drama
Odin Sphere*
Okami*
Rez
Secret of Evermore
Secret of Mana
Shadow Hearts: Near Death Experience
Silver
Splinter Cell 3*
Street Fighter 3: Original Arrange Album
Suikoden*
Super Metroid (or OCR's Relics of the Chozo*)
System Shock 2
Tekken 5
Thirteen
Vagrant Story
Vandal Hearts
Xenogears CREID*
Zone of the Enders (both 1 and 2*)

None of these are on the list. Fucking idiots!

EDIT: Must haves in *

I think music needs finer criteria than just 'best'. For example Mitsuda has a lot of technical excellence but his music is used like junk in the games he's involved with the exception of Chrono Trigger. Despite his considerable skills I felt that his music added nothing to Xenogears/Chrono Cross/Xenosaga, but they're sure good to listen on their own without the context of the game. On the other hand Uematsu doesn't strike me as great at making good music, but in the context of how his music is used he's one of the best. So which of them is better? Well if you're going to buy a CD to listen I'd say you're pretty safe going with any of Mitsuda's works, but I actually prefer Uematsu's music in FF7 and FF8 because they really do set the atmosphere as opposed to just being good background music.

That said that list really looks like it's the last 10 CDs the guy who wrote it has heard.

Well, my 12 starred entries makes a much better Top 12 than his Top 10 ever could.

And Don, yeah, there's something to be said about presentation and how it links with music. Pulling that off effectively is great when it works, though you usually only see that sort of things in movies (Fifth Element comes to mind), since you can control the pacing. Rez was really the only game that played around with doing that in-game, but the whole game was basically that idea.

Actually, Zone of the Enders did some of that when you have different music between exploring and fighting, but the music is so similar that the transition is seamless. BC:R had that neat "raver party" effect with the music when you were outside of the main area, which was effective at showcasing the music as a primary element of the game.

As such, I disagree with Jeremy Soule's opinion of music being a background device like a film score. I generally don't listen to film scores as a result. (Exceptions are ones that break the rules of passiveness, like Fifth Element or Requiem for a Dream.) If I find myself standing around listening to the music because it's really good, or if I'm more enjoying my game because I have excellent music in the background, I'm happy with that. People dig One-Winged Angel because it's so radically different than the rest of the soundtrack, or in fact, soundtracks in general before FF7.

Musicians like Iwata/Sakimoto are effective in bridging the gaps between classical film scores and foreground music. If real classical musicians sounded more like them, I would actually listen to classical music.

I'm still of the opinion that the Japanese composers are superior (arguably far superior) to anything we have in the west for original video game compositions. Rare's composer is fairly good too. The Donkey Kong Country 2 soundtrack (which is noted in their top 10) is comparable to great Japanese compositions.

Well even the use of Aeris's theme as the battle music for Jenova LIFE is a good example of good atmosphere. Here you got a case of a music that is obviously not remotely like any classic 'boss battle' music but in light of what just happened, it makes a lot more sense to have Aeris's theme continue as the battle starts as opposed to magically transition to some fast paced battle music.

I suppose part of it has to do with how much pull the musician has with the game itself. In Chrono Cross the battle against Miguel has the "Those Imprisoned by Fate" theme, which is a pretty good track, but it's a track that's not really meant to be repeatable. It's like a one and done sad track, so it is presented very poorly when used as a boss music because the track obviously has a climax and an ending, and then it magically loops around all over again.

Epic Fail...

Ridge Racer R4
Ridge Racer 5

both left off.

Imakeholesinu wrote:Epic Fail...

Ridge Racer R4
Ridge Racer 5

both left off.

Haven't listened to them yet. I actually have RR5 in the car right now, so I'll hear if that's any good. Hell, I still have the A-M collection of that gamemp3 left to parse through, so I may have other artists to throw in my library.

Dutch wrote:I'm still of the opinion that the Japanese composers are superior (arguably far superior) to anything we have in the west for original video game compositions. Rare's composer is fairly good too. The Donkey Kong Country 2 soundtrack (which is noted in their top 10) is comparable to great Japanese compositions.

Not true. Kelly Bailey, Jeremy Soule, Simon Viklund, Jerry Schroeder, Dean Evans, Eric Brosius, Jason Hayes, Tracy Bush, Derek Duke, Glenn Stafford, Chance Thomas, Jack Wall. All good composers.

More console/RPG games come from Japan, so the stereotype is that since they are more Japanese VG musician names out there, they must be better at it than the US. It's not a question of talent, but a question of getting noticed and access. When you don't have the rock star aura like Nobuo and Mitsuda have in Japan, it tends to generate an image problem.

There's also the fact that US games typically have one composer working on music for the entire game, so their resources are dedicated to one game for a while, instead of several games at once. (Less name recognition if you have your credit on less games.) Viklund was creative director of the BC:R project -AND- composer, so it's a corporate culture that tends to not put as much budget on the musicians, but the talent really is there.

Hell, OCRemix alone has a pool of talented musicians and they aren't from Japan (and remix for free). And Amon Tobin's work on Splinter Cell 3 was (and still is) his best album to date, even though the guy doesn't normally do VG music. (God only knows why they didn't keep contracting him for future SC games.)

Don wrote:I suppose part of it has to do with how much pull the musician has with the game itself. In Chrono Cross the battle against Miguel has the "Those Imprisoned by Fate" theme, which is a pretty good track, but it's a track that's not really meant to be repeatable. It's like a one and done sad track, so it is presented very poorly when used as a boss music because the track obviously has a climax and an ending, and then it magically loops around all over again.

True, and I can think of other examples of presentation with music. Take the Half-Life games. All of the music is only fed at certain points in the game, like when you go into a room or different enemies start appearing. After the music is played, the song STOPS.

It's a bold step to spend money on a musician and only have those songs played once. Sure, they sometimes repeat the same song at some other point, but it's effective, since you haven't heard it enough to know that it's the same song. Most of the game is actually without music, so the points with music starting up is very effective at enhancing the story.

Back in Chrono Trigger, Magus's theme do not pick up until he's done talking. It's not clear which direction the integration goes, but either the music was changed to accomodate his speech, or his speech was changed to accomodate the music. And this is very important. Imagine if the Magus's theme just starts playing and you scrolled slowly, and then you have this epic battle while he's still shrouded in the darkness. That'd totally ruin the mood. Some tracks do not lend itself to be repeated, while some are fine being repeated.

SineSwiper wrote:

Imakeholesinu wrote:Epic Fail...

Ridge Racer R4
Ridge Racer 5

both left off.

Haven't listened to them yet. I actually have RR5 in the car right now, so I'll hear if that's any good. Hell, I still have the A-M collection of that gamemp3 left to parse through, so I may have other artists to throw in my library.

BTW, listened to this a bit. The first track, Fogbound, is by a Japanese bigbeat techno group called Boom Boom Satellites. They put out some good stuff. (Out Loud has Intruder/An Owl, which is the best drum solo I've ever heard.) Most of their stuff (besides two albums) is hard to find, since they released everything except for Out Loud and Exposed solely in Japan.

The artist "U" seems to be the guy who's putting out the best tracks on this album, too. After listening to Gammon from the RRV soundtrack, I am totally fucking convinced that this artist is actually Boom Boom Satellites mixer Masayuki Nakano. But, I can't prove it since I don't see any Internet sites that would say that.